447 replies to this topic

[Inkarnus]

eats popcorn

pgi will fix his faults and apperently as der hesse said "this balance is here to stay" was plain out wrong same with his assesments of the situations. I guess most funny are the loyalist or the guys that use alts and claim clans are fine and such bs because they got luckyly the golden egg game :3.
Or that TRIALS are on par with fully elited customized moduled mechs hahaha. Idk in what fantasy world some of you life but i dont even want to know. Better give me some of the medication you use its apperently the "good stuff".

Edited by Inkarnus, 31 January 2016 - 02:54 AM.

[Der Hesse]

Yes ideed, i didn´t think PGI would act this shortsighted.

[Roland09]

Inkarnus, on 31 January 2016 - 02:51 AM, said:

Or that TRIALS are on par with fully elited customized moduled mechs hahaha. Idk in what fantasy world some of you life but i dont even want to know. Better give me some of the medication you use its apperently the "good stuff".

Also, who is actually claiming anywhere that trial mechs were anywhere near as good as fully customized/mastered mechs? Fighting strawmen much?

[DivineEvil]

Quote

- I provided proof! You, Der Hesse (even after i kicked his *** in 1v1) and Gas Guzler decided to ignore

Proof for what?! I've decided to "ignore" you because I've never discussed anything with you in the first place! Is that some sort of a crime now?!

Quote

- My behaviour comes from frustration in how unbalanced and away from the lore this game has become. while your behaviour comes from trolling! Look at page 13 in how you replied, that says it all!

I'm never trolled you or anyone. What I've wrote on page 14 (not 13th) were not trolling in any way, and I would stand for my arguments there, if you would not just shoved it all away.

Look, I've been in discussion with chesnok, who doesn't really trace any argument and keep leading them in random directions, beside playing ignorance to keep me pointlessly chewing up everything for him. You advise him to ignore me because what? Because I'm not a T1 players and do not belong to competetive team? Which both is false, as I presented here? And my response to you have brought Gotham's attention here.

So now you respond to him, to ignore me and others, because we "demonstrate egos", even though nobody except for me done that, and even though my own display were the result of your petty questioning of our opinions because we're "not l33t enough, pleaze L2P" for anyone to pay attention to.

Again, double standards much?

Quote

- This all discussion is pointless now! After last night's Town Hall, Russ has said that IS will receive nerfs regarding Lasers range, BJ structure quirks and all, while clans will receive buffs (for the first time!!!). That prooves in how OP IS was!
Since i played Clans for a long of time, and now im playing IS, i do know how strong IS has become.

I've never argued for Blackjack structure being valid, or that Energy Range was ok - you will never find arguments for that anywhere. I've argued against both points in other threads specifically aimed at these problems.

What I've argued for trough all this thread is:
- Having an enemy outranging you by ~100m on a single map with specific variants and specific weapon is not enough to make your Clan CW game unplayable, as suggested by the title of this thread.
- Clans are making their own game unplayable by limiting their weapon choices, despite most other weapons being just as, if not more viable for specific tactics and environments.
- Clans also making their own game unplayable by focusing on negative features of their mechs, instead of trying to utilize their positive features.
- All of that is based upon popular opinions, rather than one's regular practical expertice, which is not a valid foundation for conclusions about efficiency of a tactic, mech or weapon.
- Trying to achieve universal builds, that are good for everything, often leads for these builds being inadequate for anything.

What you've said is that balance is broken and clans are unplayable. What Russ Bullock said is that balance is good, with few extremes to fix, which is exactly what PGI is going to do. And no, it does not nullifies anyone's opinion.

It... it really looks like being a clanfag turns people into mindless fanatics...

[Jon Gotham]

Der Hesse, on 31 January 2016 - 03:54 AM, said:

Yes ideed, i didn´t think PGI would act this shortsighted.

I understood they are going to look at under performing chassis for the clans?

[Russhuster]

THIS
was a neglected point for a long time because MOST Clan Chassis wre rotting dusted and not played because of being utterly underperforming

ALSO there are some Chassis in the IS repertoire that are just dust catchers and need attention as well

PGI is not acting short sighted der Hesse,
Its strongly needed that the lawn mower spreading of overall quirks comes to an end

When PGI is really starting to give each Chassis a close specific look and act acordingly to develop and consider each chassis´s weaknesses and demands ( so the chassis is getting playable , even viable again)
Then PGI has proven a lot more vision and market-far-sightednes than i would have dreamed of

Edited by Russhuster, 31 January 2016 - 07:17 AM.

[Der Hesse]

As far as i understood they are taking all negative quirks off clan mechs and nerf the top IS chassis.
So it is far more then buffing underperforming clan chassis.
It´s directly influencing tech balance in favor of clans.

The even now tier 1 Clan mechs will get even stronger again while the IS tier 1 mechs will get weaker.

And THAT is absolutely shortsighted.

[DivineEvil]

Der Hesse, on 31 January 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

As far as i understood they are taking all negative quirks off clan mechs and nerf the top IS chassis.
So it is far more then buffing underperforming clan chassis.
It´s directly influencing tech balance in favor of clans.

The even now tier 1 Clan mechs will get even stronger again while the IS tier 1 mechs will get weaker.

And THAT is absolutely shortsighted.

Negative quirks have not really achieved much. They're redundant, especially in light of Ebon Jaguars, which has exactly the same mobility, exactly the same podspace and better hitboxes merely for lack of JJets and 1 ton of armor. All in all, the removal of negative quirks means nothing, compared with Skill-Tree nerfs, reduction of DHS heat cap and damaged Clan-XL performance penalty.

On the other hand, structure and energy range quirks were quite notable and excessive. Range by itself is not a parameter, that can be linearly compared to DPS or heat efficiency - the longer the base value and the higher total bonus is, the more value each 1% has. 10% Energy Range is what brings IS and Clan ER-LLs to equality, and in that framework each has it's own advantages, and same is true with all other Laser models. IS still hold all the remaining energy quirks on top.

Personally, I despise calling mechs wit 25-35% Energy Range as "Tier 1 choice". These mechs are just outright broken and force too much to revolve around these unnatural numbers, which is why I haven't bought any of them and ignored the hype altogether. I have higher standards and better expectations for MWO, than just running long-range laser-tag games. It's not what MWO should be, so don't get frustrated when the game takes a step away from it.

Edited by DivineEvil, 31 January 2016 - 08:17 AM.

[Russhuster]

that step is a step towards the right direction

[Willard Phule]

A couple of other factors I haven't seen mentioned....at least in the last 5 or 6 pages...has more to do with population and quality of pilots than mech specifics. Sure, there are huge differences in this last round of "balancing," most notably the IS has lots of mechs with positive quirks, the Clans have more with negatives than the IS, blah blah blah.

Clans started going downhill with the Steam release. We picked up a LOT of brand new players and it truly feels like the vast majority chose Clans when deciding to "try out" Community Warfare on their very first day. At the same time, most of the experienced units and solo players realized that there was a vast crop of baby seals to be harvested and migrated to the IS.

Those of us that stayed with the Clans have seen it and felt it. 1 out of maybe 15 or 20 "pug" drops ends up with any sort of chance of success. Most of the time, over 75% of the team is brand new and treating CW like it's just 4 solo drops in a row.

Now, that might actually be PGI's vision of what CW should be, but from all the complaints I see in the forums and in game (my own included), it really seems that CW should be more than just a "romper room" for new people to crap all over. Just my opinion.

[B0oN]

LEMME demonstrate sum EGO y´all ...


GET THE FRAG OUT !
PLAY STOMPY ROBOTS !
STOP MAKING A FUSS !
BALANCE WILL NEVER BE PERFECT !

Youse are all ten times more hardheaded than the most dour and sour zealots .


LESS QQ
MOAR PEWPEW !

[Jack Spade Ward]

Der Hesse, on 31 January 2016 - 07:11 AM, said:

As far as i understood they are taking all negative quirks off clan mechs and nerf the top IS chassis.
So it is far more then buffing underperforming clan chassis.
It´s directly influencing tech balance in favor of clans.

The even now tier 1 Clan mechs will get even stronger again while the IS tier 1 mechs will get weaker.

And THAT is absolutely shortsighted.

Well, i guess after february patch why not joining a clan unit?

[DivineEvil]

Spadejack, on 01 February 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

Well, i guess after february patch why not joining a clan unit?

Maybe because he's not a douchebag, who's switching sides at the moment there's an presupposed advantage to cash on. *bland stare*

Edited by DivineEvil, 02 February 2016 - 01:43 AM.

[Jenovah]

Kieva, on 27 December 2015 - 08:14 PM, said:

So, let me first set the scene for this post. Tonight I dropped 3 matches in CW. Tonight we got roflstomped 3 times with a 12-man, by a mixed bag of FRR. We were (mostly) organized, focusing fire, and we were mostly getting crushed.

This game is NOT balanced for CW right now, and you Inny surrats need to stop crying about IS being underpowered, because the reality is that the Clans are now so badly nerfed and out-tonned, and so full of poorly trained pugs, that if you'll notice, every single clan faction is being pushed back to their home planet.

I don't care what is changed, but some of the debuffing of the clans needs to be backed off. This change needs to happen VERY soon, because it has lost all of its fun for those of us that are playing on Clan side.

I'm pretty frustrated right now, so I'm having a hard time giving rationalized points to why this is, but this game should be fun, not frustrating, simple point, to explain a simple thing.

With these 12 mans, I haven't won a single match since the 'balance' adjustment.

I truly don't understand a lot of the "clan is unplayable" sentiments. I enjoy playing clan over IS. I only need 6 clan mechs to run 2 drop decks that cover all maps- 2 long range, 2 mid range/brawler deck, and 2 dakka mechs. I swap between as needed for the map. Granted, I have more clan mechs than that, but I have a vastly more wins than losses playing as clan. Yes, IS outranges me, but to say its unplayable is, for me, reaching at best.

Do I think there should be some adjustments, sure, but it's not as bad as everyone makes it out to be.

[DrnkJawa]

CW is fine on both ends, you just need to shoot the same mech together.

[WVAnonymous]

Somewhere in this thread a few weeks back I think I mentioned OLD spent a week as Jade Falcon. When we had 8 or more in the drop, we were close to 100% over any opposition that didn't have at least a 6 man on the other side. I think we were better than 50% against 8+ man teams. We're reasonably sure the mechs aren't the key factor in the game, it's the pilots.

The CW balance problem was (and is) that two thirds or more of the games we drop as FRR, the biggest unit on the clan side is ONE. We club the baby seals, thank them for their time, and encourage them to join units. Really, we do, we aren't "ggclose" types.

Edited by WVAnonymous, 02 February 2016 - 10:02 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

DivineEvil, on 02 February 2016 - 01:42 AM, said:

Maybe because he's not a douchebag, who's switching sides at the moment there's an presupposed advantage to cash on. *bland stare*

But surely, the people who keep saying balance is fine are doing the same? Is does have an edge at the precise minute, by repeating "it's fine" mantra are they not just trying to cash in o the presupposed advantage?

[DivineEvil]

Jon Gotham, on 02 February 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

But surely, the people who keep saying balance is fine are doing the same? Is does have an edge at the precise minute, by repeating "it's fine" mantra are they not just trying to cash in o the presupposed advantage?

Doing what exactly? What exactly am I doing by keeping the allegiance that I had before the Clans even came about, and saying that the balance is fine?

Edited by DivineEvil, 02 February 2016 - 11:19 AM.

[Commander A9]

Might not be balanced, but with a good team, you can still win.

I just hope PGI doesn't expect the player-base to do the balancing for them. Otherwise, PGI will rely too much on the skill of players to fix broken game mechanics, and that's not how any game should carry itself.

[BMKA]

To be honest,I think is not about quirks or tonnage...well yea but just 20%.
The other 80% is teamkwork+a good player. Last night I played 1 CW as IS...guess what 7 GUYS DIDNT GET 300 DMG, 5 of them was Trial drop. This happened playing as Clanner as well, so Im sure that is not about tec.
New players need to learn how to play, buy mechs before drop CW, but the rewards are more tempting and they drop anyway.
Also planet are useless, so winning or losing a game doesnt matter at all. only your performance.