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Cw Unplayable Clan Side


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#181 B0oN

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 06:44 AM

Just a quick FYI ...


12mans have been beaten ... by PUGS, on BOTH sides of the fence .
All your arguments are moot .

#182 Yozzman

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 07:03 AM

View PostRad Hanzo, on 12 January 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

Just a quick FYI ...


12mans have been beaten ... by PUGS, on BOTH sides of the fence .
All your arguments are moot .


Still -MS- is OP, should be nerfed Posted Image
Specially a guy called Hanzo Posted Image

#183 Inkarnus

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 07:09 AM

View PostRad Hanzo, on 12 January 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

Just a quick FYI ...


12mans have been beaten ... by PUGS, on BOTH sides of the fence .
All your arguments are moot .

Swol are a nice bunch of people shown here
http://mwomercs.com/...pany-of-swol-d/
they could have ez faceplanted the enemy but didnt =D.

btw fyi incompetence != balance :P

Edited by Inkarnus, 12 January 2016 - 07:10 AM.


#184 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 07:39 AM

View PostInkarnus, on 11 January 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

well if you cant beat it its broken. With the design of the CW maps the argument of getting range or using range vs a brawler composition is night to impossible to solve if the enemy team is competent and makes no mistakes.
Good thing is that most matches are not flawly and mostly pug on pug and you can mitigate by range or playing better some things but you cant erase them and that will get you kinda angry at some point Posted Image. Which is 10x amplified in Unit vs Unit matches because everyone will get his A mech instead of his A game =D.


Well I didn't say you can't beat, I just said the 6 MPL Ebon couldn't. If the Ebon had 2 cLPLs and 4 ER MLs and could get an alpha or two off before the ThunderWub closed, it might be a different story.

A well executed brawl push is hard to counter, but 3-4 Clan mechs should be able to take down a most brawlers in one alpha. Perfectly executed brawling push and perfectly executed focus fire would make for a close fight.. But people will always make mistakes on both sides.

#185 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 07:43 AM

View PostSpadejack, on 11 January 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

If a Black Knight can outgun, outmanouver and outeverything a timber wolf, and is considered a "bad" mech, then yes, IS is so much OP ;)
Thanks for confirming what ive been thinking, and saying, all this time

And by the way, the fact that ALOT of ex-clanners went to IS is probably a hint that things in clans, are way bad... just saying


Black Knight has the advantage in a mid to close range 1v1 for sure. But there are a lot of other factors to consider in team play. Sometimes the ability to take high ground and poke from 700 m away is more useful than. Closing to 4-500 meters.

#186 Goldhawk

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 11:41 AM

Perhaps I am old fashioned. I have seen the friction of both sides, and since I have been absent for a while, I am saddened to see what has happened.
Ideas:
#1

Give the clans back their advantage.
The clanners put together advanced technology and apparently, that technological gap has shrunk within the year.
#2

Clan: Hit the same but at a longer range. Period.
Inner Sphere: More hearty mechs. Simple.

Back in the Star League era, many of the mechs that were popularly used, Guillotine, Sentinel, and several of the other Star League mechs, had weapons, but meh armor when butting heads with the clans. Thus, the Original battle of Tukayyid, had the Falcons taking out mech after mech, and through attrition the clan mechs lost.

Clan mechs should have better armor, but more delicate internals. Or as the Georgia folks call it, (Fra-Jill-lay). (Fragile for those Yankees out there)

Inner Sphere mechs should be able to soak more damage from the internals ONLY, if they are running a standard engines. That is what made Atlas so terrifying. It can soak damage and continue to walk forward and stare at you with that Death's grin. Makes me nervous. (Reference see Hearts of Chaos novel with Cassie Suthorn at the end vs a Naginata)
This would invoke tactics and strategies beyond, snipe at long range and pick apart through pop-ups. Also, the Inner Sphere would attempt to brawl more since their mechs are a smidge harder to kill. For what I remember, the clanners favored a crap ton of weapons at the risk of less armor.

Inner Sphere gear shalt not hit longer then the X number of meters for the ER large lasers. Yes, they did an ok job with hitting at beyond the max range and only doing slight damage. How about no damage at beyond range? oooo pretty light show.

I have agreed with several of the quirks that make mechs unique and have them execute the roles that they were meant to do, however, they perks that allow the giant boating mechs to carry batteries of large lasers that out range the competition? No no no no.
#3
Sorry folks, they need to lock down the amounts/sizes of lasers that can be carried on mechs. A mech should not be able to carry more then 4 large lasers unless that mech is the Daishi or some other giant mech that can handle the heat/amounts of giant ports. If a firestarter wants to carry 5+ small lasers, fine. When it has the ability to carry 3 large lasers, now we are getting insane. I remember the fun old days when you have Ac/20 Raven flocks, but now.....*shrug* lets lock it down a bit. Only mechs that should do that kind of crazy is Blitzkrieg or the Hollander.
#4
Keep throwing the ball to the community.
I did not have the opportunity to play Mechwarrior Legends or whatever that free to play game was, but players can design maps and submit them for community voting and distributions. There are some talented people that are in the MWO community and I have seen it through mech digital designs and creative ways that they have found ways to adjust the balances of the weapons.

#5
Perhaps this might be too complex, but its crazy.
Make LRM fire similar to Morter firing in other games.
As an option, LRMs should have the ability to blind fire and hit a targeted area on the map, this would eliminate camping in some spots, and would bring LRMs a bit more respect in the meta. Example,
An Archer stands on a mountain suspecting that a Commando has hidden behind an rock formation. Disengaging the tracking on the missiles, the Archer takes 5+ seconds and fires over the rock formation in the area where (he or she), believes the Commando to be hiding.
The Commando gets blasted with the LRM swarm that is not a regular spread of LRMs that directly would hit an enemy mech, but rather whatever percentage of the missiles that lands in that area. It hurts the Commando, jarring the light mech to run from the hiding spot. Once the Commando breaks from cover, the Archer re-engages the tracking and locks on the Commando and blasts it with missile fire. This would cut down those matches of boat vs light mech that seem to pop up.

Oh yea, just so you know, im usually the light mech.

Just my thoughts let me know what you think.

#187 ackstorm

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 11:56 AM

View PostRad Hanzo, on 12 January 2016 - 06:44 AM, said:

Just a quick FYI ...


12mans have been beaten ... by PUGS, on BOTH sides of the fence .
All your arguments are moot .


Do please show me the statistical data showing how often pugs win. I'd love to see evidence that those a fair percentage of PUGs winning vs -MS- or -228-. I eagerly await your data!

#188 Heart of Storm

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 12:32 PM

Clans problems are twofold

1: All the good Merc units who were carrying the fighting before left them
2: Every Steam Newbie wants to play Clan - for real just look at the Steam Forum, every new player post is 'I want to play Clan'

End result, Clans have no good players anymore and can't make headway against the IS loyalist units who cut their teeth against [MS] and the like back when Clan Mechs weren't balanced.

#189 CD PBS

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Posted 12 January 2016 - 09:53 PM

View PostHeart of Storm, on 12 January 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

Clans problems are twofold

1: All the good Merc units who were carrying the fighting before left them
2: Every Steam Newbie wants to play Clan - for real just look at the Steam Forum, every new player post is 'I want to play Clan'

End result, Clans have no good players anymore and can't make headway against the IS loyalist units who cut their teeth against [MS] and the like back when Clan Mechs weren't balanced.


You forgot to add Clanmechs are too squishy and deadnerfed against the overtanked and overquirked Damagesoaking IS-Mechs. This(!) is the Mainreason in my opinion. Clanners cannot compensate the "Re-Balance Phase 4". Its simply the End of the Line for Clans, their Weapons, the Omnipods and their Mechs until this over-and-over-and-overnerfing is in a playable balance.
Currently its not balanced...for clanners.


My 2 cent (Clanmechplayer)
so long

Edited by CD PBS, 12 January 2016 - 10:25 PM.


#190 Cox Devalis

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 05:08 AM

View PostGoldhawk, on 12 January 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:


#5
Perhaps this might be too complex, but its crazy.
Make LRM fire similar to Morter firing in other games.
As an option, LRMs should have the ability to blind fire and hit a targeted area on the map


Hey, it's main problem of WoT.
Thanks God and Russ we don't have this heresy in MWO.

#191 Cox Devalis

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 05:15 AM

View PostHeart of Storm, on 12 January 2016 - 12:32 PM, said:

Clans problems are twofold

1: All the good Merc units who were carrying the fighting before left them
2: Every Steam Newbie wants to play Clan - for real just look at the Steam Forum, every new player post is 'I want to play Clan'

End result, Clans have no good players anymore and can't make headway against the IS loyalist units who cut their teeth against [MS] and the like back when Clan Mechs weren't balanced.


KCom and BMMU are JF. And they were searching for MS'twelves every night of past holidays.

And as I see -MS- are SJ now.

#192 Director Kobil

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 06:39 AM

First fight of the day against ITx : ALL of them had ER Large Lasers, standing in a row and shooting us while we had no cover and out of range of any weapon from clanside. The only chance i had was an Artic Cheetah that could run away fast enough. There is nothing more to add.

#193 Goldhawk

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 06:51 AM

View PostCox Devalis, on 13 January 2016 - 05:08 AM, said:


Hey, it's main problem of WoT.
Thanks God and Russ we don't have this heresy in MWO.

Well I was attempting to make the LRMs viable against hidden targets. I was not stating that all the missiles would be able to hit, a small portion "might" cover that area. Okay.... I'm an examples guy. Say that you have a 2 inch in diameter circle on the ground 4 feet from you, and you have a bag of Skittles. You open that bag and toss the Skittles across that area. Yes, some areas will get more saturation then others, but a few got in the circle right? That would be the LRMs against hidden targets, slight damage, not enough to cripple or destroy unless you are a walking skeleton. Also, the Bombarding mech would need to take time to disengage tracking for the LRMs. This is all time that the hidden mech can take to either get closer or flee.

#194 Dawnstealer

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 07:48 AM

View Postkamiko kross, on 11 January 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

I'll say this Bud, i was of the opinion that all Is was op compared to clans but that comment made by Gas jogged my brain into gear and I got to thinking about it. the reason I felt that was because of the point i made, SOME IS mechs are just flat out superior now to the equivalent clan mech for that given role. E.G some Is kit brawls better than ANY clan mech can due to being quirked excessively, SOME snipes better than any clanmech and SOME are better mid rangers...
The thing that struck me was during CW a clanner will face those "SOME" the majority of the time. so you are nearly always going to be up against the quirk monster that is superior.
In a pug Q game and even in group Q to a lesser extent that isn't so much of a certainty.
I did a match yesterday where our IS opponents were NOT in quirkboats...it was a reasonable match actually. didn't feel UP nor OP. I think it's the combination of the "SOMES" in any one team that make people feel UP.
It's the few overquirked ones that are causing the perceived imbalances i think, pretty much a mirror of the Timbergod/Stormgod period?

It's this (along with population, which is about to shift back, so...just wait - it's now all going to shift and then it will be the IS whining about OP-whateverness because this game is population-driven...anyways...).

There are about 4-5 mech variants, not mechs, mech VARIANTS - so that would be the dreaded Stalker 4N, not ALL STALKERS - that are about on-par with Clan mechs due to quirks. All the others are inferior. So guess what? Any players you face in CW that actually know what they're doing and want to win? Yeah, they're going to take those 4-5 mechs.

So I get the PERCEPTION that all IS mechs are superior god machines, but that's not reality at all.

If I want to roll out my beloved Stalker 3F? Yeah, can't do it because it just doesn't hold up against a Timberwolf. How much does a Timber weigh again? Oh, yeah - it's a 75 ton mech. How much does my Stalker weigh? 85 tons.

My 85 ton Assault mech isn't a match for a mech that's ten tons lighter.

OP my butt...

#195 Jack Spade Ward

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 05:36 PM

View PostDawnstealer, on 13 January 2016 - 07:48 AM, said:

It's this (along with population, which is about to shift back, so...just wait - it's now all going to shift and then it will be the IS whining about OP-whateverness because this game is population-driven...anyways...).

There are about 4-5 mech variants, not mechs, mech VARIANTS - so that would be the dreaded Stalker 4N, not ALL STALKERS - that are about on-par with Clan mechs due to quirks. All the others are inferior. So guess what? Any players you face in CW that actually know what they're doing and want to win? Yeah, they're going to take those 4-5 mechs.

So I get the PERCEPTION that all IS mechs are superior god machines, but that's not reality at all.

If I want to roll out my beloved Stalker 3F? Yeah, can't do it because it just doesn't hold up against a Timberwolf. How much does a Timber weigh again? Oh, yeah - it's a 75 ton mech. How much does my Stalker weigh? 85 tons.

My 85 ton Assault mech isn't a match for a mech that's ten tons lighter.

OP my butt...

LOL
On par??? Sorry, no... way superior to any clan mech!
85 ton Stalker vs a 75 Timber? Well, acording to LORE, a timber should take care even an Atlas, the fact you can go toe to toe with a Timber in your Stlaker makes your mech and its quirks OP. Besides, people still talk about the timber, but the Ebon Jaguar is way better.
Clan mechs die to fast, no quirks or negative quirks, have a tech tree suposed to be better but in this game is way worst... do i need to keep this going?
Tell me of a clan mech and ill tell you of an IS mech wich is way better, any clan mech!

#196 Volts

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 06:53 PM

The classic lore nerd defense.

Timeless.

#197 Alteran

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 08:21 PM

View PostVolts, on 13 January 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

The classic lore nerd defense.

Timeless.


If PGI wanted a fully balanced Mechwarrior game CW and PUGlife they should have kept it IS only. Balanced and fair.

If PGI wanted CW to be balanced and fair with IS vs Clans then they should have implemented resource management (Mechs, dropships, etc). Then you'd see Clans needing to spread out their resources and playing like they would need to, to keep those resources.

Lore.... it's what made Battletech/Mechwarrior what it is. It's what drew most of us here. In CW matches today, I hear Steamers asking 'WTH is going on??? How can a Blackjack kill my Timberwolf??' blah blah blah.

If you want a balanced game, call it what it is: Stompy Robots and stop trying to sell us a Battletech/Mechwarrior game. Get rid of the different techs and have one: weapons, engines, heat sinks. Even it across the board and you will stop all this whining.

#198 a gaijin

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 09:50 PM

View PostAlteran, on 13 January 2016 - 08:21 PM, said:


If PGI wanted a fully balanced Mechwarrior game CW and PUGlife they should have kept it IS only. Balanced and fair.

If PGI wanted CW to be balanced and fair with IS vs Clans then they should have implemented resource management (Mechs, dropships, etc). Then you'd see Clans needing to spread out their resources and playing like they would need to, to keep those resources.

Lore.... it's what made Battletech/Mechwarrior what it is. It's what drew most of us here. In CW matches today, I hear Steamers asking 'WTH is going on??? How can a Blackjack kill my Timberwolf??' blah blah blah.

If you want a balanced game, call it what it is: Stompy Robots and stop trying to sell us a Battletech/Mechwarrior game. Get rid of the different techs and have one: weapons, engines, heat sinks. Even it across the board and you will stop all this whining.

You've made very good points and I agree 100%.


I am back after a year of what would probably be considered 'rage quitting' to see if the nonsensical weapon range & damage quirks were eliminated.
That they're still around and just reading your comment (and a lot of others like it) it sadly seems the MWO is not really turning out to be a BattleTech/MechWarrior game after all.
And I was a FOOL for having enough faith in them to donate $500 to the 'Gold Khan fund raiser.'

I may play a few games every now and then but with the full realization that this isn't really a MechWarrior game after all.

WIth all the nonsensical weapon quirks the BattleTech license and naming should be pulled because it sure does not feel like a MechWarrior game.
It's "Mech-me-money Warrior Online" featuring "Quake Team Tank-Match." I get more of a Quake 2 CTF feeling playing this than I ever had playing multiplayer MW3. I used to play "Stock Mechs Only" matches a lot.

I will never pay into a free to play game ever again.
I've learned a hard lesson.

#199 Jonathan Paine

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Posted 13 January 2016 - 10:03 PM

Planning on doing Clan for a bit starting this weekend. Looking forward to a "challenge" by running the "underpowered" Clan mechs for a while.

#200 iLLcapitan

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 12:45 AM

View PostHeroForHire, on 13 January 2016 - 09:50 PM, said:

You've made very good points and I agree 100%.


I am back after a year of what would probably be considered 'rage quitting' to see if the nonsensical weapon range & damage quirks were eliminated.
That they're still around and just reading your comment (and a lot of others like it) it sadly seems the MWO is not really turning out to be a BattleTech/MechWarrior game after all.
And I was a FOOL for having enough faith in them to donate $500 to the 'Gold Khan fund raiser.'

I may play a few games every now and then but with the full realization that this isn't really a MechWarrior game after all.

WIth all the nonsensical weapon quirks the BattleTech license and naming should be pulled because it sure does not feel like a MechWarrior game.
It's "Mech-me-money Warrior Online" featuring "Quake Team Tank-Match." I get more of a Quake 2 CTF feeling playing this than I ever had playing multiplayer MW3. I used to play "Stock Mechs Only" matches a lot.

I will never pay into a free to play game ever again.
I've learned a hard lesson.


Meh, thanks for sharing your gruffly memories





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