447 replies to this topic

[sycocys]

Autobot9000, on 18 January 2016 - 01:30 AM, said:

Your post is outright wrong. IS mechs outrange clan mechs now, you have obviously no idea how the current game works.

It's quite possible you don't know how the current game works. There's a handful of IS mechs that can outrange clan mechs, and they have to be set up in ERLL (terrible heat efficiency mode) for that to even work.

The only time this advantage "might" matter is if you are a unit playing clan pugs AND defending on Boreal, otherwise you are going to get pushed on and wrecked, no amount of range advantage will help you once clans push under 700M and can bring the house down on you.

I guess congrats if you can out-snipe pugs on one map... I'm sure it makes you feel all warm inside.

[Gas Guzzler]

kamiko kross, on 21 January 2016 - 03:21 AM, said:

Der Hesse, do you have a Shadowcat or an Ice Ferret? Might have been better to test vs a mech of same weight. Though on second fight I'm surprised he didn't just core you though. 33pt near pp alpha? Did you guys record the fights?

No. Blackjack vs Stormcrow is a better match up. Its more best medium vs best medium as opposed to 45 ton vs 45 ton. Come on, we all know who is going to win Blackjack vs Shadow Cat. How about Kintaro vs Stormcrow?

[Der Hesse]

Inkarnus, on 21 January 2016 - 06:12 AM, said:

wow so you FINALLY said that you only know one side the IS side ty vm

I did master the crow so i know pretty well how deadly this mech is.
Also it´s not hard to put 2 and 2 together without counting fingers. If you got a working brain that is. ^^

You can attack me all you want. That surely doesn´t prove any point. I already know you don´t like me. You even felt the need to call me names over pm. That´s grotesque on its own. Do as you please but don´t think that will change facts.

Game is in good balance and no one in this thread or others was able to give logical evidence that it´s not.

[Jon Gotham]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 January 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

No. Blackjack vs Stormcrow is a better match up. Its more best medium vs best medium as opposed to 45 ton vs 45 ton. Come on, we all know who is going to win Blackjack vs Shadow Cat. How about Kintaro vs Stormcrow?

Hmm I dunno really, I've not played a Kintaro for quite some time, I'm not familiar with the quirks. Is Blackjack considered to be best IS medium from someone at your level? If so, is because of the quirks?
The Stormcrow I only consider a threat if it's a 5SRM6 or 5 streak 6 loadout. Those two builds are extra nasty. Any Is meds that can do similar?
I ask because I'm currently running heavies mainly as IS, not used mediums for quite some time. I did used to run a quad srm4 Griffin and a few srm boating shadowhawks when they were new, but not used them since last year:)

Edited by kamiko kross, 21 January 2016 - 11:30 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

kamiko kross, on 21 January 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:

Hmm I dunno really, I've not played a Kintaro for quite some time, I'm not familiar with the quirks. Is Blackjack considered to be best IS medium from someone at your level? If so, is because of the quirks?
The Stormcrow I only consider a threat if it's a 5SRM6 or 5 streak 6 loadout. Those two builds are extra nasty. Any Is meds that can do similar?
I ask because I'm currently running heavies mainly as IS, not used mediums for quite some time. I did used to run a quad srm4 Griffin and a few srm boating shadowhawks when they were new, but not used them since last year:)

Blackjack is the best IS medium for sure. I would never use a Kintaro, ever. And yeah, the Griffin 2N or 3M can still do SRMs pretty damn well. The 2N is nice with ECM. And then I think the Wolverine 7K has good SRM quirks as well from what I remember but not as many people use that one.

And Stormcrow builds you still have to worry about up close are SRMs + cSPLs, or 9 cSPLs as NS used vs ISEN on River City on monday night. That match is on youtube. Or you could do 2 cLPL and 2 cERMLs as more of poke mech. I'm not sure if the Crow is still better than the HKB-IIC at laser vomit... it is at least more survivable.

Really, I guess I just mean the best mediums should be going at it. Tonnage doesn't really matter in a 1v1, just the end result. I do think the Blackjack could stand to drop some of its structure, maybe have half of the structure bonuses it has now. It is pretty tough for something that small.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 21 January 2016 - 12:36 PM.

[Jonathan Paine]

I'm noticing a trend with the "IS so OP" posters. You don't use any numerical examples, it is all whine "IS does this, IS does that". How about you post things like:
The Battlemaster S is OP because its 25% Energy, 10% Heat reduction and 10% shorter laser duration.
I'll counter with a Warhawk; point out that the Clan ER LL weighs a ton less, takes up one less crit, and that by using the 2 crit Clan DHS and a TC5/6/7 I can counter the range advantage. I could even get creative and do a Warhawk with 2xERLL and the super light weight Clan Gauss (triple range people!).

No? Math too hard?

[DivineEvil]

ch3sn0k, on 20 January 2016 - 08:58 PM, said:

Argumentum ad verecundiam

Beats personal, non-substantiated opinions by a large margin. Opinion of a cooperative unit for using LRMs in CW counters an opinion of a single person claming them being useless. LRMs generally not a very reliable weapon, but Clan's LRM is marginally better, than the IS one simply by launcher weight difference.

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Either refute the point or don't quote.

Then, you straw-manned my argument as if responding to something I've never told. Now you just misfigured my claim without adressing it, and now you demand to refute your points? Internal conflicts much?

And where are your points, kid? Where are your arguments? Those empty claims? I've already refuted them for one person and do not feel obliged to repeat for someone, who just stuck his nose where it didn't belong.

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No ****, back when clans had the clear range and damage advantage they did sniping. But luckily we're not discussing the days of $300 timber wolves?

So now when they're on equal terms, its impossible? That's astonishing.

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Again, we're not talking about the 'good old days'. Right now there is no point in having a CERLL over CLPL, both in public drops and in CW.

There's a reason in that it takes 2 tons and 1 slot less to get a weapon, that shoots further and deal nearly as much damage with a duration drawback. On distances closer to the optimal range it still has the sweet-spot where it outdamage the IS-ERLL, like I've said earlier. It always were like that, but back then IS had nothing to respond with. Now we do. Is taking a return fire is that detrimental to the playstyle of poor clanners? Need a hug?

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I thought we were discussing MWO CW balance, not third party leagues? Moving goalposts much?

It is you, who are moving goalposts. I've said, that Clan mechs and weapons are good enough for MRBC players to use them in place of IS mechs, voluntarily. MBRC league represents the most competetive teams in MWO community, and it is much, much more unforgiving, that some petty CW drops, where realistically nothing is at stake. For me that means a lot about the actual playability level of Clan mechs. You've replied with that it's just a hearsay, but if you wish you can witness my point yourself when the season begins. I'm not much moved to keep repeating all the same junk discussions about how a single weapon on few specific variants on a single map makes Clan side unplayable.

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4 nerf hammers in a row is not a first-ever challenge.

Last nerf-hammer is what brought Clans in line with IS. Prior to that, Clans still had the same, clear advantage you has mentioned yourself.

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Apparently you need to waste your time arguing with nerds on the internet, otherwise your opinion is instantly invalidated.

Apparently I sometimes can enjoy proving people wrong and forcing them to understand that, like most people who stend their time here. My opinion can only be invalidated by viable arguments, which I rarely oppose to begin with.

You on the other hand seems fine with wasting your time for annoying people by sticking your nose into a discussion you're not realted to. Having a list of logical fallacies nearby does not automatically makes you good in arguing.

So far I've refuted three of your points by forcing you to ignore my replies on them. You on the other hand only threw fancy words at me and repeated all the same unsubstantiated claims, that the person you're trying to defend or whatever.

Why Gauss is laughably useless? How's cooldown nerf prevents using it for it's intended role?
Why LRMs are useless? Do you even have a competent CW team, which tried to use them in moderation?
Why Clan Ballistics are bad, when C-UAC/10s and C-UAC/5s are the best Ballistic weapons in the game?
Why you don't mention SRMs? To avoid defeating arguments?
Why C-ER PPCs are slow, when they fly faster than an AC/5? Why 10 pin-point damage with 5 splash damage from a 6t weapon is not enough? Why heat is so detrimental, if you're can have roughly 40% more DHS than any IS mech can?
What specific recent changes are preventing you from doing what you've been doing before?

I still haven't recieved an answer for these questions. All I get is lame presuppositions based on the lack of an actual, practical expertise with these weapons.

[ch3sn0k]

DivineEvil, on 21 January 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

Why Gauss is laughably useless? How's cooldown nerf prevents using it for it's intended role?

Chargeup mechanic killed whatever little use gauss still had. Now the only mechs it's marginally useful on are walking turret assaults like DW or KC.

DivineEvil, on 21 January 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

Why LRMs are useless? Do you even have a competent CW team, which tried to use them in moderation?

If you bring a little lrms to your drop, they wouldn't make much difference. If you bring a lot, you will get stomped in a straight up fight. Cover is abundant on CW maps, and most fights are decided in a brawl at your optimal distance. Skilled and organized team simply wouldn't give you many openings to lrm them.

DivineEvil, on 21 January 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

Why Clan Ballistics are bad, when C-UAC/10s and C-UAC/5s are the best Ballistic weapons in the game?

They are only better when shooting a non-moving target. Any kind of maneuver means your multiple shells would just spread damage all over while the enemy cores out your CT with pulse lasers.

DivineEvil, on 21 January 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

Why you don't mention SRMs? To avoid defeating arguments?

SRMs are fine, but they are an all-or-nothing option. Not exactly the thing you would bring on a CW against a strong opponent on an unknown map.

DivineEvil, on 21 January 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

Why C-ER PPCs are slow, when they fly faster than an AC/5? Why 10 pin-point damage with 5 splash damage from a 6t weapon is not enough?

CERPPC takes the same slots and tonnage as a CLPL, deals the same damage (I really hope you don't consider the 10+2.5+2.5 BS a real 15 damage), generates way more heat (on an already heat-strapped clan mech) and 30% of your hits won't even register thanks to PGI's indian outsourcer tier net code. How can you consider this a competitive weapon is, again, beyond me.

DivineEvil, on 21 January 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

Why heat is so detrimental, if you're can have roughly 40% more DHS than any IS mech can?

Yes, those nerfed clan DHS that give you the same overall heat capacity, while your weapons generate more heat per damage dealt and ghost heat kicks in with less of the same weapon system. The only advantage clans still have is the heat dissipation speed, which is probably the last skin of the teeth they're holding by.

DivineEvil, on 21 January 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

What specific recent changes are preventing you from doing what you've been doing before?

Overall it wasn't a single thing that changed everything. It is a combination of multiple factors that brought us to where we're now.

[Inkarnus]

What were the main selling points of the clans
-Range
-cXL
-some Clan weapons are lighter and smaller
-heatsinks with a high heat treshold
-Speed
-Agillity
-Omnnipods

Now we look how it was balanced out beforehand
-Range: got offset with Spreadchance for UACs multiple buillets, for lasers they are hotter and have longer burntimes then there counterparts on is for this. Srms have higher spread but same range. Lrms have same range/spread but fire in chain which actually increases spread by alot and the chance to shoot them down.

-cXL: had the benefit of beeing able to withstand beeing stripped one sidetorso but cant be changed or
removed for a STD (some chassis are absurd over engined).

-some Clan weapons are lighter and smaller: This is a blanket statement but keep in mind that the pod space and tonnage on clan mechs are quite limited and this isnt that of a benefit more of an equailizer.

-heatsinks with a high heat treshold: gave the abillity to have high burst damage

-Speed: Doesnt really matter for CW except if its a 30Kph difference sadly though it hinders clan scouts to shine and make by default just 1 scout chassie the best the ArcticCheata.

-Agillity: Some mechs that got huge engines were quite agile for there weightclass (torsotwisitng etc.)

-Omnipods: Basically just a mechbay saver and not remotly related to this topic about balance.

Now we look at what the last balance pass did:
Revised Skill Tree values
Kinetic Burst
7.5%
Twist X
2.5%
Hard Brake
7.5%
Twist Speed
2.5%
Arm Reflex
2.5%
Anchor Turn
2.5%
Speed Tweak
7.5%
Lasers
• Clan ER Small Laser Max Range reduced to 360 (400).
• Clan ER Medium Laser Max Range reduced to 688 (810).
• Clan Small Pulse Laser Max Range reduced to 297.
• Clan Medium Pulse Laser Max Range reduced to 561.
Autocannon changes unrelevant
Missile changes LRM IS tighter spread 1sec less CD then clans
Missile changes SRMs tighter spread IS then Clans
• IS Double Heat Sink has its heat capacity increased from -1.4 to -1.5. This is increasing the maximum heat
• Clan Double Heat Sink capacity will be reduced from -1.4 to -1.1. This is reducing the maximum heat
cXL ST loss = less mobillity
gauss nerf 5.5 secs cd

additionally alot of IS mechs got insane quirks not only the obvious perpetrators. Especially quirks that offset the
revised skill tree values.

So basically **** clans . But seriosly these changes reflect poor judgement and only end up nerfing clan side
while buffing IS side (wait PGI will sell some IS packs Is needs to be OP for the next half year )

Now lets reflect these changes on the mentioned clan doctrines

-Range: Atm Clans have inferior hotter laser weapons then IS. While normally IS Doctrine was
less burntime less heat for less range is now bumped on some chassis to be equal of Clan values
that cant work on the design level alone since. IS laser weapons are not designed to be on par with Clan
ones too from a game design view. Thats why the struc quirks were handed out in the first place to my knowledge.

-cXL: ST loss = less mobillity is an okay mechanic if they didnt buff the structure of IS mechs but they did so its kinda of a nerf Clan buff IS method.

-some Clan weapons are lighter and smaller: nothing changed here

-heatsinks with a high heat treshold: got trashed and nerfed hard for Clans and for IS it got even buffed
although clans has the hotter laser weapons and IS already the cooler weapons. so again an Clan nerf Is buff.

-Speed: didnt change

-Agillity: got nerfed hard for clans by the Revised Skill Tree values they didnt get anything in exchange
while chassis like the BJ (25%-30%)and atlas (30%) BLRs (25%) QCK5k (25%)got increased yaw rates quirks.hah the atlas has even a 137 yawrate (ddc 350STD) even superseeding the insane medium values of the BJs with max engine of 130 yawrate. Another clear Clan nerf IS buff.
Additional all these got better structure quirks too. I additionally can see how that in anyway benefit the IS
with all these clan long burntimes and damage spread Kappa.

clams OP
iam not even talking about reduced burntimes or less energy heat usage :3 need moar nerfs = less clan player base that wasnt already mostly outnumbered already. from the get go by IS 3:1

Edited by Inkarnus, 22 January 2016 - 07:24 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 January 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

Blackjack is the best IS medium for sure. I would never use a Kintaro, ever. And yeah, the Griffin 2N or 3M can still do SRMs pretty damn well. The 2N is nice with ECM. And then I think the Wolverine 7K has good SRM quirks as well from what I remember but not as many people use that one.

And Stormcrow builds you still have to worry about up close are SRMs + cSPLs, or 9 cSPLs as NS used vs ISEN on River City on monday night. That match is on youtube. Or you could do 2 cLPL and 2 cERMLs as more of poke mech. I'm not sure if the Crow is still better than the HKB-IIC at laser vomit... it is at least more survivable.

Really, I guess I just mean the best mediums should be going at it. Tonnage doesn't really matter in a 1v1, just the end result. I do think the Blackjack could stand to drop some of its structure, maybe have half of the structure bonuses it has now. It is pretty tough for something that small.

I picked up my IIc hunchbacks again after stopping playing them. At first launch they were inexcusably fragile with no redeeming factors.
Pre quirkening IS chassis with dps stare down long duration weapons? =LOL.

But after the hitbox adjustments I dunno, they seem to last a lot longer and as long as you don't brawl you are golden. Had much success with a two LL+gauss combo. The laser vomit one has two LPL, 4 small and two mediums...it does ok as long as I focus on poking wit the LPLs. But the IIc HBK is meat for the Is ones though...maybe excepting the H.
Well as for Crow being better...you have to be careful how you build as hasn't it still got those silly laser duration neg quirks? I think the crow twists better but the Jj on the HBK is invaluable.....

[Xoxim SC]

Seems like PGI has an all or nothing approach, and hardly ever uses a deft hand when doing balance tweaks. I don't see how many of these changes even make it out of testing.

[General Solo]

I find that uncoordinated team mates lose me more games than a black jack

[Divase]

Jonathan Paine, on 20 January 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

For the poor Clanners who think that lasers are a brawling weapon:
Try SRMs (half the weight of IS!)
Try quad LBX10's on a Dire (funny how that 1 ton discount makes the LBX viable for some builds)
Try mixing and matching UACs (quad UAC10 double tap harsh heat, 2xUAC10+2xUAC5 not so much)
Try SRMs with a UAC20 (c'mon, compared to IS these weigh nothing and the damage is insane!)

We just finished up a month with Ghost Bear and couldn't agree more with this. We like to brawl and found these types of builds much better than the laser vomit. We built out mechs to match our style of play and had to change our tactics a little but once we did, We took outpost a few times only to have it taken away in our off hours.

[DivineEvil]

ch3sn0k, on 21 January 2016 - 09:16 PM, said:

Chargeup mechanic killed whatever little use gauss still had. Now the only mechs it's marginally useful on are walking turret assaults like DW or KC.

I'm sorry, but charge-up mechanic was there for so long, that I can't even remember when it was introduced. It never stopped any half-decent players from using it, particularly Clan meta involved using Laser+Gauss combo for at least 4 months. It is still useful for all the same mechs as before, but it's not that universal as it was, and thats it. There's at least 5 mechs where I run at least one, and for me charge-up mechanic is the weakest point against Gauss there could ever be. Compared to what Gauss can offer, charge-up mechanics is nothing.

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If you bring a little lrms to your drop, they wouldn't make much difference. If you bring a lot, you will get stomped in a straight up fight. Cover is abundant on CW maps, and most fights are decided in a brawl at your optimal distance. Skilled and organized team simply wouldn't give you many openings to lrm them.

If you bring some LRMs you can suppress enemy snipers out of their positions, and when your mates would come to the brawl, you can support them by suppressing their targets. I reckon you've never tried to brawl, while there's LRMs showering on your head.

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They are only better when shooting a non-moving target. Any kind of maneuver means your multiple shells would just spread damage all over while the enemy cores out your CT with pulse lasers.

A moving target hads to be led. It's is true for lasers and it is true for Clan UACs. It requires the same expertise as the regular IS ACs. With Clan UACs you can spread the damage, but you can deal double the damage either way. With IS ACs you can just miss or hit the wrong component, and with several AC's you also can spread the damage by leading a moving target by aiming at distant points. And because IS mechs are generally larger and has larger hitboxes, it gives Clans easier time to pin-point into them.

So all in all, Clan UACs are different from IS-ACs, but not outright worse. Again, if you use them regularly, you will learn how to achieve their full potential. If you brush them off blindly, you're just missing an opportunity. Someone, who's not using a weapon cannnot objectively argue for it's capabilities.

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SRMs are fine, but they are an all-or-nothing option. Not exactly the thing you would bring on a CW against a strong opponent on an unknown map.

Map is always known as soon as planetary segment and combat mode is decided upon. Maps are rigidly appointed to segments, so you always can reconfigure the drop-deck entirely to fit the particular map long before the game starts.

Opponent's strength isn't something what decides the weapon choices. As long as it synergizes with your team, anything works.

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CERPPC takes the same slots and tonnage as a CLPL, deals the same damage (I really hope you don't consider the 10+2.5+2.5 BS a real 15 damage), generates way more heat (on an already heat-strapped clan mech) and 30% of your hits won't even register thanks to PGI's indian outsourcer tier net code. How can you consider this a competitive weapon is, again, beyond me.

Well it's at least 12,5 damage over longer range, 10 of which is pin-point. Register issues are unknown to me; even when I play on US servers, my PPCs and ER-PPCs always hit where they are fired.

I once had hit 1542 total damage on a single BJ-3 with dual PPC and Small Lasers, while defending from Clans. This was before weird structure quirks stuff. Either way, I use PPCs all the time and do not share your opinion. That's why I consider them competetive.

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Yes, those nerfed clan DHS that give you the same overall heat capacity, while your weapons generate more heat per damage dealt and ghost heat kicks in with less of the same weapon system. The only advantage clans still have is the heat dissipation speed, which is probably the last skin of the teeth they're holding by.

You pay more heat tax for using better weapons, or your using the same heat tax for slighly better weapons. That's the reality of current Energy weapon values. You can pick any Clan energy and compare it to IS energy analogue and you'll see the pattern. Either way, you need less weapons and/or need less tonnage for similar weapons, which allows more heatsinks.

Heat Capacity is a parameter of alpha-strike, not the parameter of potential DPS.

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Overall it wasn't a single thing that changed everything. It is a combination of multiple factors that brought us to where we're now.

Well, at this point I only see that Clans finally recieve meaningful return-fire, and that's Laser-vomiting everything three times in a row can get you into trouble. Beyond that, it's a mystery to me.

Edited by DivineEvil, 22 January 2016 - 06:51 PM.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Der Hesse, on 21 January 2016 - 02:17 AM, said:

So i had my duel with spadejack.
In fact we did two 1/1 fights.

I did tell that i would drive a crow he then decided to drive a hunchback. Map was decided by spadejack
The match was VERY close with only the question who would get the last hit. It was spadejack. I missed my last shot badly, shut down and got killed while his hunchback was orange or red cored center and one side torso.
My loadout was pretty simple with 4 CSRM6 artemis and 4 CERML, no modules but mech mastered.
The first part of the match i did hit him on 400-600 meters with my lasers, where he nearly didn´t shoot back. Only amrs were yellow. Not sure anymore about his loadout, but it must have been brawly. I just did run from him and shoot him. He couldn´t get all to close. Because of the ability of the crow to turn the torso pretty far i could easily do so.
When i had his ct armor removed i thought i could get into brawling with my still nearly fresh mech and end the match faster which was a bad decision because he did a good job on evading my SRM alphas.

Second match i took the same mech and told him so. He then decided to show me how unbalanced the blackjack is and used a blackjack with 3 LPL. When i noticed that in the match i charged him knowing that i would have better chances in brawlingdistance. My speed allowed me to do so. He tried to get away but decided to stay when i opened his back with my lasers. He couldn´t use my run and shoot tactic because his torso doesn´t go as far as the crows. In the following brawl i shred him to pieces with CSRM alphas. When he died to his ISXLEngine i still hat armor on every single location. He told me his blackjack wasn´t even basiced.

So for me it was balanced matches. Here is my opinion why:
The first match was a good fight. If i would have sticked to my initial tactic i´m sure i would have won. When we started to brawl he was clearly better then me. I missed to many shots and the hunchback seemed to have a nice DPS. I would say he indeed had the advantage in the brawl even with 5 tons less. But in the first part of the match i was clearly in favor without giving up too many brawling capability in my build.

In the second match i was clearly in the better mech. It´s hard to tell how much difference the 10 tons and the mastered mech make, but i did win very clearly. The Blackjack didn´t stand a chance and i can´t believe that a mastered blackjack would have done much better.

I don´t run Clan mechs. Even the crows that i own were mastered months ago and never again touched. I didn´t even change my setup for a 1/1. It was a pretty basic setup not favored on metamechs. Who knows what happened if i used the 3 LPL metabuild.

Still.....it just shows two fights between pilots with maybe different skills and doesn´t say too much about balance but if IS mechs and especially the Blackjack would be so ridiculously overpowered like some Clan players say then especially the second match should have endet closer or with a win for spadejack, right?

I´m still convinced that tech balance is pretty good atm., while Clans and IS just have to use different tactics to maximise their winning chances.
Clanners in general have best chances while skirmishing, controlling the firedistances of the match and reacting faster to enemy movement.
IS in general have best chances while pushing and forcing the Clanners into brawls where they in general have an advantage because of better sustained fire.

OK, let me give you some insight here, i didnt choose the map, it was random

First, it was part of my style and strategy with the hunchback to soak up damage while i got in range to you, remember the map was caustic valley, hot map. I know how bad clan mechs are in case of heat, so i waitied, spread damage, got in close, then the match was over for you. The Hunchback did his work really nicelly, didnt heat up, and was alpha after alpha.
Even with less 5 tons, the hunchback proved t be the better mech. Also, im a seasoned pilot, i know what im doing.

On the second match, i brought a BJ, not even basic done, and not brawlly. the random map got us to Alpine. When we had contact, i had the upper advantage. Kept on shooting those 3LPL. But, not being mastered, that BJ cant run, cant brawl, and the heat can be dificult. So the crow had the full advantage on a 1v1 match. Altough that BJ withstand so much punishment.
Had i brought a diferent BJ, with a 1v1 build, i am most certain that the outcome would be diferent.

My conclusion, IS mechs can out-range, out-brawl and some can out manouver clan mechs, even the super clan mechs like the crow.
And all this comes to what i have been saying since the beggining, IS mechs are way to OP.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 January 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

Well to be fair Spadejack is arguing just the same and his Blackjack isn't even basiced, showing that he only really knows fighting against it...

Sad but true... but im learning to play with the black jacks... look at this just today


free upload

And i haevent finished basic this mech

[Inkarnus]

http://www.twitch.tv...tb17/v/37243639
http://www.twitch.tv...tb17/v/37267825
or


6:0 IS vs Clans with switched sides after 3 wins

Edited by Inkarnus, 24 January 2016 - 04:10 AM.

[Ashvins]

Well I can honestly say that some of the IS structure quirks are heavy handed to say the least (BLACKJACK) & the fact that the IS currently has the range advantage (Quickdraw), throws CW out of balance. But that being said Teamwork still trumps all. It does not matter if we at Night Scorn are playing IS or clans, teamwork still is the deciding factor to Wins.

[Russhuster]

teamwork is the only advantage PGI can not nerf away

[Bud Crue]

All this talk of the Quickdraw. Yet I still see only one or maybe two in CW and they are never stand outs. I know the 3LPL build is "meta" and all that, but really with 265 to work with, are people really seeing drops with dozens of Quickdraws to ruin the "balance"? I'm just not seeing the Quickdraw or for that matter the BJ in CW to the extent the complaints on these forums would suggest.

On the other hand these same forums speak of the horrid demise and utter uselessness of the Timberwolf, and yet I do see dozens of those in drops, and in drops where my OP IS mechs and those of my fellows are defeated. Guess we should just run Quickdraws and Black Jacks?