447 replies to this topic

[Jack Spade Ward]

DivineEvil, on 22 February 2016 - 07:06 AM, said:

That's kinda the opposite - it takes a particularly good player for being able to make use of that longer burn time, dealing higher damage over longer base range. 0.25 burn time is not that much of big difference.

Clans get weapons with better performance per 1 ton. What they pay for it is higher skill requirement to use them to the maximum potential. So, for every case, whether Lasers or AC's, it comes down to one's ability to land their damage where one's want it.

First of all, let me thank you for your answer, you didnt troll nor you start criticizing, for that i apreciate.

Now as my answer, after the 2nd nerf hammer on the clans, the CERLL became a rare weapon. It was still used in some builds, specially for long range, usable on PUG drops in Alpine and Boreal in CW.
When the ACH came out, it became a popular weapon, it was to do the same as the Raven 3L, a long range sniper with ECM.
But, the popular choice was indeed the CLPL, shorter burn times and a but more dmg. The diference of 150m wasnt that much.
If we compare to the IS ERLL, this one was always better. True that it gives 2 less points of damage, but instead less heat and the range diference wanst substancial. The shorter burn time made all the diference between these two similar weapons.

Mechi Messer, on 22 February 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

Except for boreal (Defence, Hold territory) this is true. When I did my mechbaytour I used a 4 erll hellbringer on boreal and cracked the 1000 dmg mark quite often with it. Back in IS now I'm seeing a lot of decent to good clan-units melting wave after wave with massed erlls. This is the only map where the longer burntime and heatmanagement don't make much difference. I was quite surprised how fast my battlemaster withered away when clanpilots didn't want me to get through the door.
On every other map c-erlls are pointless in my opinion.

Yes, i tend to agree with you, a barrage of CERLL can be effective in Boreal. But only in an organized team and specially in that map...

[Jack Spade Ward]

Dawnstealer, on 22 February 2016 - 01:19 PM, said:

I...I literally have no idea what you're saying here. So in your argument, the problem isn't that a 75 ton mech should be the at least the equal of an 85 ton mech, but that it should be BETTER than a 100-tonner? Are you being serious?

I'm going to guess you're joking. Or at least I sure hope so.

I'm going to add something I've been saying since Clan mechs rolled out in this game: they are a balancing nightmare.

One of FASA's big regrets with Battletech was the implementation of the Clans, rules-wise. Don't get me wrong, they were an incredible role-playing foil, and from that aspect of the game, it was loads of fun: the Clans were practically alien.

But implementing all of that into a rule set that's fair to both sides? HARD.

And in an online, player vs player game like MWO, damn near impossible. Your options are:

• Make Clans NPCs, controlled by the computer, so they play "in character"
  
• Make Clans have inferior numbers or other similar controls, but retain their "supermech" status. Not particularly fun to play against, but if you get enough players on the IS side, they can win (after a lot of them die)
  
• Somehow balance the vastly superior Clan tech to IS with hand-wavey stuff.

Guess which PGI went with?



And I don't blame them. Personally, I would have balanced the Clans with range vs damage. So IS weapons would be inefficient and relatively short-ranged, but do a lot of damage. Meanwhile, Clan weapons would do less damage, but have longer range and more consistent damage while being more efficient.

Either way, if you go with #3, they have to balance out: a 75 ton Clan Mech should be roughly equivalent to a 75 ton IS mech, or there's just no point.

I meant in the Lore, a timber could take an Atlas in an 1v1, but then again, acording to the Lore, a timber costs 25 million while the Atlas costs 10 million...
And again, this game puts the Lore out when it seems fit. I think we can agree that this isnt a BT game, its something similar...

I actually put a post regarding this, in a way to give info warfare and logistics to the IS, in a way they could have a more realism and be lore based. Clans had the tech advantage, while IS had a huge logistic machine that suported the win.
If youre interested to read, here is the link:
http://mwomercs.com/...r-clans-and-is/

Please remember, those are just ideias, those could be tweeked and / or modified

Edited by Spadejack, 22 February 2016 - 02:41 PM.

[DivineEvil]

Quote

If we compare to the IS ERLL, this one was always better. True that it gives 2 less points of damage, but instead less heat and the range diference wanst substancial. The shorter burn time made all the diference between these two similar weapons.

Well from the retrospective, it is the range, that is making difference (although it's purely semantic).

Both in TT and MWO, all clan Pulse lasers effectively replace standard lasers by range profiles. They simply do not need to make choices, that IS do related to it. But while in TT having a pulse laser with standard's range meant only better hit-chance and without any damage falloff over range, in MWO shorter burn times across almost equal range made that C-ERLL redundant, and it would remain as such even if it had ISERLL burn times. If any of Clan Pulse lasers had shorter range profiles, then it would be a whole different story.

Quote

I meant in the Lore, a timber could take an Atlas in an 1v1, but then again, acording to the Lore, a timber costs 25 million while the Atlas costs 10 million...
And again, this game puts the Lore out when it seems fit. I think we can agree that this isnt a BT game, its something similar...

You should also remember and understand, that in lore, Clans have fought against stock-loadout mechs with regular pilots, with their highly adaptive, flexible mechs and mechwarriors genetically bred for their particular craftsmanship. Trying to reproduce it in MWO, it would be like placing a veteran player in a customized TBR against an average/newb player in stock Atlas. The results would not get far from what you've suggested.

Occassions where Mercenaries would put regiments of elite pilots with reconfigured, lostech-enhanced battlemechs, comparable to what we have in game as premade 12v12 matches, were an extreme rarity. I'm not even considering all the conventional supplementary forces, that were thrown at Clans in order to stop them.

Logistics are something CW definitely lacks, and even some internal management system, that would account for ejects/engine losses, repair/rearm, faction mech availability, etc. It is not necessary to make it biased towards either factions. It is clear PGI are sure to balance stuff equally, and I think they've already abandoned too many of their roadmaps mid-way.

Edited by DivineEvil, 23 February 2016 - 07:39 AM.

[Jon Gotham]

I might get why it's currently unplayable and it's not pure tech differences either.
Was just dropping solo on my clan acc, we had a six man with us a JF one. They spoke not ONE word in voip to us pugs. The pugs even said "we don't need to talk if we know how to play."

Those two things alone explain much, this has become the norm sadly when I log in on my JF character. Anyone know which clan faction tends to actually SPEAK and use teamwork?
I've cancelled my contract with JF....

[B0oN]

PGI trolled all yall ... "perceived" balance is closer than it was before still spheroids (those IS saltminers...err, players, yeknow) and clanspeople (all those vat-born spacefascists) ***** and moan like a kindergarden deprived of their noon meal and naptime ...

8/10 ... recommend watching the salt dry up into beautiful crystalline forms again

[Kshat]

Mechi Messer, on 22 February 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

Except for boreal (Defence, Hold territory) this is true. When I did my mechbaytour I used a 4 erll hellbringer on boreal and cracked the 1000 dmg mark quite often with it. Back in IS now I'm seeing a lot of decent to good clan-units melting wave after wave with massed erlls. This is the only map where the longer burntime and heatmanagement don't make much difference. I was quite surprised how fast my battlemaster withered away when clanpilots didn't want me to get through the door.
On every other map c-erlls are pointless in my opinion.

Such a long burntime will result in a bad effective damage to heat-ratio.
Yes, you can easily farm damage on bad to mediocre players, especially when their attention is split towards a closer teammate of you.
But a good player will evade a third of your damage and twist another third of your damage to a location which doesn't hurt him. And even if that arm is lost, it's hitbox will dampen the damage received.

Even worse, a long burntime makes you susceptible to counterfire.

In my opinion, the worst part about long burntimes is that a lot of damageticks will fail to register with the sorry state the servers are in right now. But always better than PPCs flying through unscathed enemies...

[Mechi Messer]

Kshat, on 23 February 2016 - 10:25 AM, said:

Such a long burntime will result in a bad effective damage to heat-ratio.
Yes, you can easily farm damage on bad to mediocre players, especially when their attention is split towards a closer teammate of you.
But a good player will evade a third of your damage and twist another third of your damage to a location which doesn't hurt him. And even if that arm is lost, it's hitbox will dampen the damage received.

Even worse, a long burntime makes you susceptible to counterfire.

In my opinion, the worst part about long burntimes is that a lot of damageticks will fail to register with the sorry state the servers are in right now. But always better than PPCs flying through unscathed enemies...

That's partly true, but I was talking about boreal. No matter how good you are you have the longest exposure-time to enemy fire of all cw maps (entrance area). Good enemies call targets and focus fire. One time I was part of a push in my battlemaster and was taken out by at least 4 different mechs with 4 cerlls each. You can't twist that away. Definitly not viable on other maps but boreal is a different story. You don't even get penalized due to burntime because you outrange the attacker by far so no substantial returnfire. Massed erlls as attackers in my opinion is idiotic because you can't get good trades with them while attacking on boreal. this map has always been broken (for clan and IS).
Don't get me wrong this is no cerlls are op-yadda yadda. I just think that cerlls are very effective on boreal when massed and in the right hands.

[patoman]

Are we on same server, Last couple times, I think all but one of the battles I have had was a loss. and each time got a angry letter from the shogun of space japan telling me how I preformed dishonorably and will not get any LP.

And this was when I was often in premade groups, all kurita.