110 replies to this topic

[diablo595]

Tarogato, on 28 December 2015 - 03:50 PM, said:

Thanks for being another solo pug to farm.

Hey, maybe if everybody who solo'd CW would just join up with units, then perhaps units would have enough people to do 12v12 each other without pug teams getting in the way and wasting their time?

Of course, then again, I'm a part of a small unit that doesn't play CW, so I solo pug all the time. But you don't see me complaining about it. Ever.

no it would just be a longer wait to go seal clubbing, the problem is units don't want to fight each other they want to go seal clubbing and pgi lets them

[diablo595]

PerfectDuck, on 28 December 2015 - 04:12 PM, said:

I'll start off by saying I'm someone who NEVER drops solo. The sheer amount of anti-group, anti-competitive ignorance, villainizing and insults spread by solo-only players on this thread frightens me, for I fear for the future of this game. We have so few people who play MW:O who don't suck and I can almost fit the number of comp teams on my hands. From this side of the fence, we see the only solution is to see more players encouraged to embrace organized play. It's actually really fun up here. Whatever enjoyment you guys get from pug vs pug.. I don't get. I only find this game fun when both sides are playing well.

Let's get into some background. I'm personally pretty tired of it because I was hugely into competitive Super Smash Bros when I was younger and we were trolled by the same attitude of punksters saying that we're ruining a game that's meant for parties, doing such un-fun things as disabling items and choosing the less gimicky and neutral stages. It even had its own meta of matchups and some characters being played a lot more than others. These people showed up at tournament events occasionally, having no idea and expecting to have a good time, got wrecked, and then promptly concluded that we have no lives to have been playing the game so much and gotten this good.

They didn't really sit around to notice the way we were actually interacting with one another. We're not bullies trying to act tough or *********** inside our heads at how much better we are than wimps. We don't get some primitive satisfaction from dominating the defenseless (There are a couple bad eggs I suppose, but a lot of the people I really respected and looked up to in the competitive community were far from that! Nicest guys ever). I don't think it clicks in the casual player's mind that it's fun to play at your very best and to expect the same in your opponents and to give your best game no matter what. It disappoints us when people don't even try. To put this into MW:O perspective, I consider 'not even trying' the refusal to be part of a team.

Sometimes I'd put money on the line when I'm going up against a regional traveling champ, knowing full well that I was going to lose my money. I played this guy so I could learn from him and get better. And if he 'sandbags' ie doesn't even try because I'm too easy for him, I actually take that as an insult. I want my opponent to drive me into the ground as hard as he possibly can and not hold back for a moment. If I can land an effective hit on a pro, I want to have earned it. I take every loss as an opportunity to learn. I can still almost perfectly replay how some of my games went because I was so amped up and focused in the match. This is a thrill and a joy, and in fighter games especially it's like a new form of interaction, getting inside the heads of people, seeing how they think and watching how play styles interact, how people react to pressure and such.

We always shook hands afterward and said GG, it's just sportsmanlike to do because we all understood that stomps happen not because people enjoy clubbing seals but because we respected our opponent enough to show them everything we're capable of, and they appreciated that back and took their whupping not as an insult but as a reminder that they still have much improvement to go.

I don't feel good clubbing seals. People who are competitive are on a quest for self-improvement and interested in seeing how good they can get. What bothers people like us the most is not losing in itself, but rather not knowing how to improve or not understanding how the loss happened. If it's a loss where the reasons were clear, that's good because we know where we can improve on; we can prevent that from happening the next time or maybe even use that ourselves. People who avoid losses entirely out of trying to protect their egos are not the kind of gamer who stick around in the competitive scene once they've seen what it's like and what it takes to stay in it.

Here's to hoping those shamefully ignorant images aren't actually believed by anyone and that there's more people who can actually understand where we're coming from. There are a lot of different personalities, a lot of different mindsets, and a lot of different forms of enjoyment that players are seeking as they all find themselves pitted against each other in this gamemode. Us competitive players are not evil or cowardly, we just take the game more seriously than you and don't bother dumbing down our own abilities when we could be doing something a better way. Are we going to ruin pugs' experience by being a superior force to their sordidly unorganized mess? Probably. You people who don't even try are wasting our time too. Go back to pug queue please. And I hope the devs find a way to make it harder for all those other units to hide from ours.

If you want to fight other units just defend. You rarely see units defend

[TLBFestus]

Lazor Sharp, on 28 December 2015 - 10:04 PM, said:

"What you don't get, or won't accept is that you are in the minority and for the foreseeable future (by which I mean FOREVER) will remain that.

Nothing you can say will change that fact. Every MMO has team play pretty much and still the solo players represent the vast majority of the player base. MWO being a small MMO has a very low chance of CW being the way that you seem to insist it has to be.

Whether you accept this or not, the real truth is that the game itself needs a very large population of solo players so that some of them will eventually "trickle down" into the team based CW. In it's current form there is no incentive for solo players to be attracted to it."

I find it SAD, I get it, and do agree with all this, but it would be really really nice if the % of larger groups could be increased with incentives of some kind... and maybe CW3 will help.

I lay this lack of unit play / teamwork problem at PGI's feet, as they have done very little from day one to foster or incentivize the the unit 12 man kind of play, and have done so much BS that ran off so much of our units players that could field 12 mans regular, it is amassing that any are left......

Yup...PGI has not found a way to merge the two populations in a way that will work.

Oh......please learn to use the "QUOTE" function, when you reply like that it looks like you are writing it, not quoting someone.

[Bleary]

Lazor Sharp, on 28 December 2015 - 08:29 AM, said:

Once again, PGI needs to give EVERY incentive possible to new players to join a unit with vets that can teach them, and learn how to play a Team Game as a Team first thing.... Never ever let newbies learn bad habits, and how to be stray cats and baby seals to start with ...... and they will have more fun, and not get clubbed so much, and learn enough to love the game, instead of rage quitting.....

I personally don't get why anyone wants to play a Team Game as a solo or pug. (i know there are 100's of reasons stated elsewhere)

It's no more a team game than Call of Duty is. As in: there are teams in the game, but no particular reason why you need to play with them.

Except that if you play CW, you have to. Because MWO isn't big enough to support a group-only queue like a proper multiplayer game. So if you're one of the crazies who actually like CW -or you want to participate in one of PGI's asinine CW-only events- you've gotta put up with it. Which can lead to frustration. And threads like this.

Best advice to the OP: just skip the CW events. The awards aren't worth it.

Edited by Bleary, 29 December 2015 - 02:34 AM.

[Axeface]

I dont touch CW for this reason. Hey, if pgi dont want me playing it thats their loss - I've hardly played the game in months.
Premades vs premades, if you want to stomp pugs then well, I dont even need to say it.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Let's hold up a second...

It's no real problem if a random solo or two gets hooked up with a group of 7-10 organized in a team. Hell, it aids in recruiting new players, and at the very least is a way to make new in-game pals. COOL! And new players dropping that way can learn a lot, and quickly, by getting matched up with a <12 premade. This is TOTALLY win-win.

If THAT team goes up against a solid 12-mech team, though, it can get ugly. STILL, in that case, I'd expect EASILY that 10/12 or more would make that 100 match score. That's not much of a standard, mind you (even my scrub @$$ regularly beats that when getting rolled). But whatever. It's a game, right? And maybe, JUST MAYBE, that 12-mech team was hoping to catch a quality competitor, and couldn't really help that they get paired with whomever else.

Now, putting a team of 12 solos up against an opponent with a >4 premade in it? That's not cool. And as the size of that premade grows from 5 to 12, the likelihood of success for the all-solo side falls REALLY rapidly.

This is all generally speaking, mind you, as there will be exceptions.

But how to match-make that without screwing anyone?

I mean, if you force 12-mech teams to face other 12s, then they may be sitting in queue an hour or more waiting for an opponent. Requirements for ANY group size are going to have an adverse impact on match wait times, which are already pretty long for CW even on busy nights (compared to public drops). You can't just stop pre-made teams from dropping, and not expect that to drive off your players.

Best I can think of for now: Check the queues before committing to drop solo. If you're in a small group, find a queue with solos. If you're solo, look for a queue with a group. If you're in a 12-mech, you get what you get on the other side, like everyone else, so don't feel bad if you have to ROFLstomp some solo newbies. As someone on page 1 of this thread said, some teams will feed the solo PUGs so they don't walk away feeling like TOTAL crap. That's pretty cool of them.

[oldradagast]

RestosIII, on 28 December 2015 - 01:17 AM, said:

You're... Complaining about teamwork? I feel like we're starting to run out of things to complain about at this point.

For the billionth time: complaints about 12-mans in CW are NOT about the teams themselves (though some of them act like arrogant jerks, but that is a different topic), but about the idiocy of a game mode that pits full, practiced teams against piles of randomly selected PUG's, casuals, and occasional small teams. That laughably stupid lack of any real match-making is the problem. Everyone with the slightest understanding of what makes a game fun (other than "stomping stupid noobs") understands this problem, and yet every time it is brought up, we get a bunch of people playing intentionally stupid while trying to rephrase the valid complaints into "you just don't like teams."

I'm sick of this idiocy - imagine if the NFL consisted of totally random team selection and creation, where one week's big game might be a pair of practiced teams facing each other, while the next week we'd get to watch a pro-team stomp a few dozen people picked from the stands at random. It would be laughable and the game wouldn't last a season with that level of stupid match-making. And yet we have people standing around here, all herp-a-derping while defending the same type of crap in CW with moron-level match-making. Unreal... but if this problem were fixed, the seal-clubbing stomps would end, and then the ego-junkies wouldn't get their worthless "a winner is you!" trophies.

Edited by oldradagast, 29 December 2015 - 07:37 AM.

[oldradagast]

diablo595, on 28 December 2015 - 11:14 PM, said:

no it would just be a longer wait to go seal clubbing, the problem is units don't want to fight each other they want to go seal clubbing and pgi lets them

Exactly. This has gone on since CW was formed and the idiocy of no match-making and the resulting endless stomps was revealed to the players. EVERY time some level of actual match-making limitations are suggested, the self-proclaimed "elite" scream like stuck pigs, throwing out every stupid excuse in the book for why one-sided games and stomps are a "vital part of the high skill CW environment."

Bullcrap. Any environment that has NO skill-based matchmaking and which basically hands out free wins to people simply for showing up with more friends is NOT a "high skill environment." But this isn't about skill, as much as they'd like you to believe that. No - it's all about the free wins, the sense of "being good" because of those free wins, and the fun of then going on the forum and whining about "stupid noobs" while wondering why they aren't interested in joining the team that just stomped them, spat in their face, and then called them idiots on the forum. I can't imagine why CW populations are down with such great attitudes on display.

[Kjudoon]

Quote

the ego-junkies wouldn't get their worthless "a winner is you!" trophies.

Someone played Yahoo Fantasy Football this year.

Took me till week 5 to get that worthless trophy. Never had it been so fine to get, and that made me sad.

[Almond Brown]

diablo595, on 28 December 2015 - 11:20 PM, said:

If you want to fight other units just defend. You rarely see units defend

That is absolute genius right there. Oh wait, if "Defend" is selected but "Counter Attack" is provided instead, then wtf... like really.

P.S. But you're correct. When Defend is selected, Defend is what should always be provided.

[Aresye]

oldradagast, on 29 December 2015 - 07:35 AM, said:

For the billionth time: complaints about 12-mans in CW are NOT about the teams themselves (though some of them act like arrogant jerks, but that is a different topic), but about the idiocy of a game mode that pits full, practiced teams against piles of randomly selected PUG's, casuals, and occasional small teams. That laughably stupid lack of any real match-making is the problem. Everyone with the slightest understanding of what makes a game fun (other than "stomping stupid noobs") understands this problem, and yet every time it is brought up, we get a bunch of people playing intentionally stupid while trying to rephrase the valid complaints into "you just don't like teams."

I'm sick of this idiocy - imagine if the NFL consisted of totally random team selection and creation, where one week's big game might be a pair of practiced teams facing each other, while the next week we'd get to watch a pro-team stomp a few dozen people picked from the stands at random. It would be laughable and the game wouldn't last a season with that level of stupid match-making. And yet we have people standing around here, all herp-a-derping while defending the same type of crap in CW with moron-level match-making. Unreal... but if this problem were fixed, the seal-clubbing stomps would end, and then the ego-junkies wouldn't get their worthless "a winner is you!" trophies.

Illogical argument at best.

You're missing one big glaring factor for your football comparison: Each football team signs up on an official sign-up sheet that states that they may be matched against professional teams.

I joined Kurita to do solo CW, and hoooo boy what a mistake that was. Why? Because Kurita pugs almost NEVER go on the attack. A few 12mans in Kurita might be on the attack, but if I join one of the attack planets, I'm almost guaranteed to NEVER get a game. I'll use faction chat to try and get more players to join me, yet none come.

Where are all the Kurita pugs you may ask? Well, they're all hopping on the defense against Jade Falcon, stacking the defend teams 3-4 deep with nothing but solo players, against the one faction that is swarming with competent premades like KCom, Lord, and EmP.

It's either complete ignorance, or masochism, but regardless of which one it is, solo pugs in CW don't seem to be doing a whole lot to help themselves. They ignore the warning about faction play, they ignore the faction chat asking for more players to go on the attack, they ignore the advice on the forums for how to minimize the chances of running into a premade, etc. They ignore literally EVERYTHING that would help them find more balanced matches, choosing instead to mindlessly continue defending a planet that has the largest number of competent premades attacking them. Then they come here, and complain about premade vs. pug matches.

It's completely idiotic, and the very definition of insanity.