11 replies to this topic

[Zookeeper Dan]

Conquest mode tends to come up more frequently now in T5 than in the past. Conquest is the hardest game mode and requires the most team coordination. Here are some tips to succeed.

The game mode actually has two win conditions:

1) Capture 750 resources.
2) Destroy the enemy team.


To successfully win at Conquest you have to make sure your team is doing both.

If nobody captures the other team will grab open bases while everyone is fighting.
If everyone captures the other team will focus fire on solitary mechs and wipe out your entire team.

The easiest way to do both is to make sure everyone knows their role:

Fast mechs should focus on capture.
Slow mechs should move as a group from point to point and focus on destroying opponents.

If fast mechs spend too much time fighting they will be destroyed. This leaves enemy lights to capture at will.
If slow mechs only try to capture they won't be able to move between points fast enough to make a difference. By the time a slow mech makes it across the map to capture 1 point the enemy lights will have captured the other 4 points.

The simplest tactic is to quickly capture 3 points. If enemies are already there, lights should either drive off lone lights or run if they encounter a stronger force. The majority of your slower mechs should move as a group to engage the brunt of the enemy force, most likely at a capture point. As this battle unfolds, fast mechs should harass enemy lights and capture undefended points.

With this little bit of teamwork capture can be one of the most fun and rewarding game modes!

[epikt]

No.

Especially on "Fast mechs should focus on capture".
Fast mechs should capture the first point and join the slow mechs (that did NOT stop on the point) for the fight. When the fight is over, spread out, capture 4 or 5 points and defend them, in order to prevent the 2 spiders left in the losing team to win on cap.
You can only win on caps on large maps with long routes to cap (Terra Therma, HPG Manifold). Other maps is just a less campy skirmish where the team losing on cap is forced to move.

tl;dr: in Conquest, you win on kills, you lose on caps.

[Morggo]

Not sure if it's the influx of newer blood or what but I have noticed lately that I'm winning and losing on caps a lot more now.. not quite 50/50 but some days a 60/40 split kill win/cap win.

Honestly, I like the mode (I know that puts me in a tiny minority) since I'm less concerned with maximizing xp and cbills I'm okay with capping, esp when in my Jenners.

[epikt]

Morggo, on 28 December 2015 - 10:28 AM, said:

I have noticed lately that I'm winning and losing on caps a lot more now.. not quite 50/50 but some days a 60/40 split kill win/cap win.

Probably because the teams are not aggressive and take forever to engage and fight. The more the fight take times, the more the cap becomes important.

I remember this game, few weeks ago. We were riding 2 Locusts (if I remember correctly), on Terra Therma. Our team capped the center but lost a full lance on one cap point. My mate and I decided to play the cap race, while the rest of our team (hopefully a group of 6 coordinated players) controlled the center. They finally all died, but they played smart, and that took a long time, enough time for us lights to win by cap.
But we didn't win because lights should cap, that was a desperate tactic. Actually, we should have lost if the enemy did the right thing after have won their first fight. We won because:
- our teammates fought like hell. Seriously, THEY won us the game by delaying the enemy;
- our enemy was dumb enough to commit most of their force attacking the center, but without the guts to charge and make it quick;
- Terra therma is one of the rare maps where travel time between two cap points is long enough for speed to matter.

I like the mode too, very much, it was all I played before the vote system.
But not because I like running on my Locust to cap points. Because it makes the Skirmish mode much more dynamic, putting pressure on the "losing team. Also because it makes some crap maps (Alpine, Terra Therma) playable.


I just want to elaborate on my first message, about "light mechs must not focus on caps": if they do, let's say 3 of them go run the caps, all they achieve is make their team out-numbered 9 versus 12. And once this main fight is over, probably leaving 8 or 9 enemy mechs, two situations. 1/ they are caught by the main force and crushed 3 vs 9. 2/ the enemy spread out and cap 3 or 4 points, forcing the light packs to attack each point to win them back. Oh, they probably will won one or two, but the defender's goal is not really to survive, but to hold the points as long as possible (old video I made about this situation).

Actually, the cap becomes a viable strategy only after the fight has begun (if it's won or lost, or if it's a stand-off taking forever).

[Zookeeper Dan]

Thanks for the input, I'm nowhere an expert in this game mode. My point of qriting was to give new players something to think about so they don't uae tactics that will lead to a loss.

I can see your point that Lights should join the fight, but for the most part, especially new light pilots should focus on staying alive until the big fight is over.

I've lost many games because the enemy team has 2-3 fast mechs capping and my team has 3-4 slow mechs that can't keep up.

However what seems to be happing more is that I spectate and there is one undamaged assault or heavy that is undamaged because they have been focusing on capping. This is a reasonable mistake, the game mode is called Capture, which is why some pilots aren't focusing on fighting.

Hence slow mechs should move together from point to point engaging the enemy mechs. The best way for slow mechs to capture is through overwhelming numbers and firepower.

[Rogue Jedi]

It depends on the team and the map, some times getting 3-4 points early makes the other team split up to cap, if you only have 1-2 fast Mechs then you are better with them just capping, if there are 3+ fast Mechs then of course you will need some of them for the fight.

there is no way to guarantee the win each time, and about the only way to guarantee you do not win is try to hold a single point.

Terra Therma is great for Conquest because the points are so far apart, you need to dedicate at least 1 Mech to capping as if you just fight you will loose, even if you manage to kill 11 enemys if one light has got 4 points and managed to hold at least 3 while you were killing the enemy it is unlikely you will have time to rap them all, Alpine used to be great, again because the whole team forming up almost guaranteed a loss, however when they changed it so 3 points were in the middle of the map that ruined what was at the time the best conquest map

[purplewasabi]

Good post but it only skims the surface of conquest mode.

I have to agree with epikt, that you win on kills, you don't win on caps. I consider it skirmish but with an additional resource timer. You can use it to stress the enemy, force them to make quick decisions, force them to divide their team, but you can't win on caps.

[Khereg]

This is an oversimplification, but it illustrates the point...

Once the match starts you generally have one of two immediate options, with your opponent having the same ones:
1. Try to get 1 or more caps
2. Group up and fight

If you do 1 and your opponent does 2 and finds you before you get your forces back together, you're outnumbered and probably in bad shape. If you do 2 and your opponent does 1, you have a strong advantage.

If you do 2 and your opponent also does 2, you have an even fight on your hands and no one has a significant cap advantage.

If you both do 1, there are two or more engagements happening simultaneously at different cap points and it's chaos. Whoever comes out ahead on the kills will generally win, just like in the option 2 v option 2 situation, but with mechs spread out all over and limited ability to help your teammates. Suboptimal in my opinion.

Now, as the fight progresses, things can change and get much more complex with reactions to specific situations starting to dominate. But, for the opening move, I always encourage teams to get together quickly and try to get a kill lead early on conquest. Then, you have more options open to you for the later game when caps become more important. So, basically, 1 is risky and 2 is much more safe, from a game theory perspective.

There are obviously a lot of variations, such as having a stealthy and fast light try to cap while the rest of the team fights. Missing one light isn't a huge detriment to the fighters, but if 2 or more take off, it starts to hurt more and more.

To keep it simple, I basically tell people if you know you can ball up and find your opponent rather quickly, it's better to kill first and then worry about the caps. It's rare IMHO that a "cap first" strategy wins. It does happen, but its rare.

Edited by Khereg, 28 December 2015 - 01:49 PM.

[epikt]

Danth Reduviid, on 28 December 2015 - 12:36 PM, said:

I can see your point that Lights should join the fight, but for the most part, especially new light pilots should focus on staying alive until the big fight is over.

Indeed.
Lights must fight, but they must not fully engage until their heavier teammates are engaged themselves. Usually, the more the fight is going, the more mechs are damaged, the more lights become effective. If they're crippled in the first seconds because they were reckless, it's a critical waste of firepower.

That does not mean they should roam the map to cap though.

[_____]

In the lower tiers you might see more cap wins, but in the higher tiers, players are typically more aggressive, and TTK is lower. The team that groups up to fight usually will end up winning vs a team that has a couple of cappers going off to cap on their own because it creates a 12v10 12v9 situation. The 12 man blob quickly kills the 10 or 9, then go on to find the cappers and end the game.

Even worse if entire lances go off to cap the point closest to them right from the beginning. Then you see entire lances get obliterated by the 8 or 12 mechs that's moving together.

The way to win in Conquest is to group up, move together, take advantage of odd-man situations (12v a number less than 12), kill the enemy team.

[Jack Booted Thug]

The side that groups up and kills first wins the majority of conquest matches. Group up and kill if you want to win.

[SteelProfiteer]

A cross hatch pattern tends to work for me