522 replies to this topic

[Gorgo7]

Fen Tetsudo, on 02 January 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

So what? The warning label is obviously not working. Steamers are joining CW, getting thrashed and uninstalling.

• Well perhaps you can stand still and let them kill you. If they come under my guns they are dead!

When we cant find a CW match, what good does "well PGI warned them" do?

The player base has to accept some responsibility. There will be consequences for farming pugs in trial mechs, and for what? cbills and loyalty points? That's like eating the seed corn.

• What?!?! If you want to play Zombies vs. Plants knock yourself out.
  
• Eating seed corn...what arrogance.

Edited by Gorgo7, 02 January 2016 - 09:07 AM.

[Alienized]

we actually do try to let the pugs get some damage and kills on us
this game is about fun but some merc-units (yeah, you know who) only think about themself.
you can have fun, win and still let the enemy get some pieces off your mechs so they dont get too crazy about premades.
thats what we do.
all i see of certain units tho is running full laservomit meta allover the place. if the only fun you have is stomping pugs and epeen about it then you are of no help for this game. CW is meant to be a teamwork mode, not the comp level of a tournament going full meta all time and nothing else.

these units also FORCE PGI to nerf all the lasers in near future.
so if it happens, dont blame PGI. blame the players for overusing stuff until everyone is sick of it.

[MischiefSC]

I had a really good drop against a Kurita team (9th sword I think?) While my team was all pug and pretty green. Said "Hey, can you guys just all come Alpha gate?" Which they did and were very cool about it.

Look. You're going to know early in a pug drop if your team is going to pull together and perform. If not and the other team clearly will, we'll good on them. They don't have magic mechs - their voip doesn't read minds. Their advantage is largely two things:

1. Psychological. They know they're going to win. They are more committed and invested in winning. They are not giving up or playing defensively or passively. They trust their teammates to perform and want to do well because you don't want to suck in front of your buddies.

2. They play to the team, not to their own stats. You stick together, move together and when someone says push it's a race to be first not a challenge to be last. They play like it's a team match, not a pug match.

That's it. A unit tag doesn't make you aim better or tank better. Playing in a group is an advantage as a will issue, not a skill issue. Pugs lose to groups because the pugs play like pugs and the group plays like a group. A pug can play like a group, they just choose not to.

As someone who pugs in cw I don't see this as a game design flaw any more than someone who makes a flamers and MGs Boars Head losing to a well built D-DC. Sure you want to make the game fun for scrubs too but when the problem is created by player choices you can only accommodate that so far.

Just add CW modes/maps to pug queue. That's a way better solution.

[N0MAD]

MischiefSC, on 02 January 2016 - 06:08 PM, said:

That's it. A unit tag doesn't make you aim better or tank better. Playing in a group is an advantage as a will issue, not a skill issue. Pugs lose to groups because the pugs play like pugs and the group plays like a group. A pug can play like a group, they just choose not to.

So pro sport teams have been doing it all wrong for decades..instead of training for months/years to become a competitive team, all they really need is to get a dozen strangers together and tell them play like a team and they are then competitive, because an untrained team only need to chose to play like pros to make them so, no training needed...
i see, try selling that to pro team coaches, its revolutionary..

[MischiefSC]

N0MAD, on 02 January 2016 - 06:27 PM, said:

So pro sport teams have been doing it all wrong for decades..instead of training for months/years to become a competitive team, all they really need is to get a dozen strangers together and tell them play like a team and they are then competitive, because an untrained team only need to chose to play like pros to make them so, no training needed...
i see, try selling that to pro team coaches, its revolutionary..

Oh, so only the comp teams (all 4 or 5 of them) are rolling pugs?
How often is a csj or kcom 12man dropping again? The A company of 228?

The comp teams that have a training regimen are a tiny sliver of teams in CW. That's not who's rolling pugs. It's the same in pug and group queue. The group that teams up wins. The only thing that keeps pugs from doing so is the pugs. When I pug in CW I try to play as a team with team oriented players. When that's a big enough group that drives wins, even against enemy teams. Same as with everyone else in every gamemode.

If we split CW queues I want the option to pug in the CW group queue. I have no interest, at all, in pugging with and against people who want to play like a pug in CW. We have a queue for that already. Give pug queue CW gamemodes. Don't hamstring CW so people who want to play like bad and still win can pretend the problem isn't them playing bad and taking bad mechs but is instead some magical superpowers sharing tags on the same drop gives you.

I want to play with a team against another team, even if we are not in the same TS or dropped at the same time. CW is a team game mode. That isn't a flaw it's a feature.

[dervishx5]

The idea that splitting up the merc units into smaller units is going to be effective is short term thinking. What's going to stop MS from forming MSx and M*S alongside MS and still join the same faction?

[mikerso]

The blame game is so easy to play.

Do large groups like MS have a sway in how clan wars functions?

Yes.

Is that their fault?

No.

Can this be changed?

Yes.

Could PGI have avoided this situation?

Yes.

The blame lies in many areas, so quit pointing fingers and bickering. Let's help PGI find a solution beneficial for all.

In the really old battletech computer game, there would occasionally be a fight when you landed on specific planets. Even though a computer team could not necessarily be set up, bounty rewards could be issued to loyalist houses for going up against merc units.

Also a dynamic reward system for grouping with a lower population house/clan. The contract would then be three weeks long with that reward level.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Zfailboat, on 29 December 2015 - 03:02 PM, said:

Now I am no big wig in 228th. but taking the last 6 weeks our contracts go like this.

F.Y.I. our last 4 faction, Kurita (before last quirk pass). Wolf, for Turkyyid, Jade Falcon, for II-C mechs, FRR - to try new IS Quirks in CW.

1. Clan for Turkyyid. (we were Kurita before this). This was simple. Event on, numbers of players per faction. we picked the smaller side to have less waiting time. If we were IS for this, everyone would have had longer wait times.

2. Changed to Jade Falcon after this. Stayed clans however as II-C mechs where being released. and we wanted to both play them, and science builds in them for CW.

3. changed to IS. We had been clans for 4 weeks, now we changed to IS. First time we are trying new quirks in IS and Russ puts out stoking stuffer event, so of course we will do CW and get grab bags.

I don't know what we will do next. However what will likely come into our thinking is.
1. where will we get most games
2. is there new mechs in next 2 weeks that players want to lvl.
3. is there a group we have not been lately, with attack lines that new members can get easy mech bays from.

Remember, we didn't make the rewards, but CW3 is going to remove LP rewards from mercs. So if we are getting free mech bays, it needs to be now before CW3.

That's sounds entirely reasonable, and is exactly what I would want to do if I was making those decisions.

[Jack Booted Thug]

MischiefSC, on 02 January 2016 - 07:11 PM, said:

Oh, so only the comp teams (all 4 or 5 of them) are rolling pugs?
How often is a csj or kcom 12man dropping again? The A company of 228?

The comp teams that have a training regimen are a tiny sliver of teams in CW. That's not who's rolling pugs. It's the same in pug and group queue. The group that teams up wins. The only thing that keeps pugs from doing so is the pugs. When I pug in CW I try to play as a team with team oriented players. When that's a big enough group that drives wins, even against enemy teams. Same as with everyone else in every gamemode.

If we split CW queues I want the option to pug in the CW group queue. I have no interest, at all, in pugging with and against people who want to play like a pug in CW. We have a queue for that already. Give pug queue CW gamemodes. Don't hamstring CW so people who want to play like bad and still win can pretend the problem isn't them playing bad and taking bad mechs but is instead some magical superpowers sharing tags on the same drop gives you.

I want to play with a team against another team, even if we are not in the same TS or dropped at the same time. CW is a team game mode. That isn't a flaw it's a feature.

The way you worded that got me thinking, what would stop higher level players dropping into a solo CW que (dropping their unit tags or using alt accounts) and wrecking? 12 vs 12 of mostly solo minded players, a couple good players on one side will just use their bad teammates as meat shields and still farm pulling 3-4K damage matches regularly.

The current PSR system in the solo que at least somewhat helps prevent new or weaker players from facing higher level players, not that it's a perfect system.

And what's to stop sync dropping in the above example?

People asking for a pug que in CW aren't seeing all the angles, and it seems difficult to convince them it's really not that hard to play as a team.

[Bluttrunken]

El Bandito, on 29 December 2015 - 01:15 PM, said:

[Russ] accused the big merc units such as -MS- and 228 for intentionally hopping over the fence together so they would not fight each other.

But that's irrational. Why should they avoid fighting those units/people who are most likely to give them a good fight? Isn't this game about fighting?

[El Bandito]

k05h3lk1n, on 03 January 2016 - 03:06 AM, said:

But that's irrational. Why should they avoid fighting those units/people who are most likely to give them a good fight? Isn't this game about fighting?

Maybe they actually want easy fights, despite their stance?

Even if we treat this as a one big coincidence, the overwhelming difference the big mercs play in CW is obvious and such things must be brought in line. Otherwise, just remove the Great Houses and Clans altogether, since they are clearly not doing much in comparison to 228, -MS-, PHL, SWOL, TCAF etc...

Edited by El Bandito, 03 January 2016 - 03:15 AM.

[Bluttrunken]

El Bandito, on 03 January 2016 - 03:11 AM, said:

Cause they actually want easy fights? CW is simply about collecting planets and tier rewards.

Tbh, it's only about the tier rewards. And about a change of pace to the normal queue. Collecting planets holds no value whatsover. In that sea of planets no one will really notice it's unit X who tagged it and alot of planets were taken by stacking ghost drops(which wasn't really the fault of the conquering unit). Leaderboards will alleviate that fact and are a step in the right direction. Decorating units for their effort would be an interesting notion as well.

I can appreciate CW for what it is. A new way to fight, different game modes with new objectives. It's actually quite enjoyable that way. When you're able to find a balanced game. I lost most fights in the Tukayyid event but it was more often than not a close call. It was contested and both teams did their best to give the enemy no quarter which still made it fun despite losing. IDC if I paint a certain part of the map in my house colors or not.

I don't really see CW serving a higher purpose than that atm, though. It's just a new set of maps with a new set of objectives. Oh and the tier rewards but honestly, eff that, they seem more like a necessary evil than anything else. And they destroy any possible house loyality. Every player should have been only allowed to get the rewards one time and only loyalists should be able to use titles from a certain rank onwards with an additional set of titles for mercs. It would kinda make sense that way.

Edited by k05h3lk1n, 03 January 2016 - 03:51 AM.

[Jenovah]

El Bandito, on 03 January 2016 - 03:11 AM, said:

....overwhelming difference the big mercs play in CW is obvious and such things must be brought in line. Otherwise, just remove the Great Houses and Clans altogether, since they are clearly not doing much in comparison to 228, -MS-, PHL, SWOL, TCAF etc...

And yet no one stumbles upon the answer right in front of your faces---

Why does everyone believe that successful merc groups must be ripped down? Because you can't form one, so you have to destroy that which you cannot create or lead?

Or maybe you create your own group under a faction and step up the competition.....

But I guess salting all over the forums is easier.

Edited by Jenovah, 03 January 2016 - 04:18 AM.

[El Bandito]

Jenovah, on 03 January 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

And yet no one stumbles upon the answer right in front of your faces---

Why does everyone believe that successful merc groups must be ripped down? Because you can't form one, so you have to destroy that which you cannot create or lead?

Or maybe you create your own group under a faction and step up the competition.....

But I guess salting all over the forums is easier.

People can salt all over the forums about it if they want. Russ is already planning to do something about it. That's what matters. Allowing Mercs to have such free reign simply reinforces the fact that CW is a farce.

Edited by El Bandito, 03 January 2016 - 04:25 AM.

[Kjudoon]

Jenovah, on 03 January 2016 - 04:17 AM, said:

And yet no one stumbles upon the answer right in front of your faces---

Why does everyone believe that successful merc groups must be ripped down? Because you can't form one, so you have to destroy that which you cannot create or lead?

Or maybe you create your own group under a faction and step up the competition.....

But I guess salting all over the forums is easier.

Ummm.... no.

Most of that will be dealt with once control over who is attacked is given exclusively to loyalists in Phase 3. And once they return Rearm and Repair and a contract system, which is pretty much inevitable now and control units with economic penalties, all this merc control will be a bad dream. Fixing loyalty points away from 'achievement' status will go a long way... the question remains, is PGI smart enough to take the advice from the player base on this.

Edited by Kjudoon, 03 January 2016 - 04:29 AM.

[Jenovah]

I could really care less who gets attacked, when, and for what reason. I go to play with a group of people and have a good time. I find it amazing that bandito completely ignores the facts as they are-

1) Faction/Lore people don't like it because people grouped up and "go where the cbills are"
2) " " cant assemble a team under one of these factions to compete, so their answer is "it's broke, we must limit others/break their organization for our own enjoyment."

Yet you still don't realize that we just want to play and have a good time. We will fight together one way or another... Who cares about who picks the targets? Who cares about R&R? You can believe all you want that imposing these imaginary restrictions will do something positive, but it is much more likely you will have the exact same problem you "believe" you have now vs the problem you actually have.

The problem you actually have is you fail to organize. Period. Dot.

Those who do, have thrown out some amazing competition- and I have been both the PUG against "those oh so bad mercs" as well as dropping with them.

Organization and communication is the difference. Not some "R&R" and "group size limit."

Salt away though, its much easier. I rarely post on the forums, so it's no sweat off my back.

[Leggin Ho]

Once again limiting some of the most active players in MWO like some of you want will do nothing but send to to other games and then you can all pug each other to death because the successful unit's will still win more than the people that just want to play like a pug so the rewards will still keep them in the think of who controls what planets in CW much like they do now.

All a contract system will do is put the entire unit on one planet taking it down that much faster and if they get the rewards once the contract is finished they will have not problem or reason to do anything but destroy the folks (house unit's) that are trying to defend it. I have ran to PL type leagues so enjoy what you ask for when it happens, I'll bring lot's of cheese to go with the whine that is gonna happen.

[B0oN]

Gnihihihi .

All that salt .
All these "solutions" .
All that bile .

Just because playing A TEAMGAME TOGETHER is what ?
Not wanted ?
Too dangerous to be experienced by inexperienced ?
Detrimental to the CW population ?

5P´s guys, only 5P´s .

PROPER
PREPARATION
PREVENTS
PISSPOOR
PERFORMANCE

Preparation, what´s that ?
1: READ THE MANUAL ... or go and search Kineticx´s guides
2: SET UP THE GAME SO YOU HAVE FPS ... of 30+ MINIMUM/ 60+ recommended
3: SET UP YOUR MOUSE ... so you can actually HIT things
4: SET UP ALL YOUR BUTTONS/CONTROLS ... because you cant really drive a car wihout knowing whats doing what, eh .
5: SET UP A MICROFONE ... IT MIGHT COME IN HANDY ^^
6: SET UP YOUR DROPDECKS BEFORE GOING IN CW (I thought I had mounted modules...derppppppp^^)
7: BE READY TO COMMUNICATE

-Addendum : If you dont have a dropdeck of your own ?
All cool, man, better play PugQueue, grind out some fully equipped mechs and get used to MW:O BEFORE hopping into the deep end called CW, because chances are high that you will encounter fully /mastered/equipped/moduled 12mans .

Why that ? Trial mechs ... some of them are downright horrible deathtraps, some are okay-ish .To be able to gauge what a mech might be capable of needs some experience with the universe at hand though . Trial mechs let you get a feel for the mech though, although I need to point out that mech-characteristics are severely changing when you start leveling them .
For instance: A heavy that was slow an sluggish at the start might turn out quite nimble for its own weight after getting fully mastered .
Also dont despair : BASICS ARE THE HARDEST PART ON MOST OF THE MECHS

And as always, if any info´s are needed, questions are popping up or you are itching for some robotic company :

ts.mercstaralliance.com

Edited by Rad Hanzo, 03 January 2016 - 06:21 AM.

[wmusil]

Jenovah, on 03 January 2016 - 05:14 AM, said:

The problem you actually have is you fail to organize. Period. Dot.

Those who do, have thrown out some amazing competition- and I have been both the PUG against "those oh so bad mercs" as well as dropping with them.

Organization and communication is the difference. Not some "R&R" and "group size limit."

Salt away though, its much easier. I rarely post on the forums, so it's no sweat off my back.

This +1

[STEF_]

El Bandito, on 03 January 2016 - 04:24 AM, said:

People can salt all over the forums about it if they want. Russ is already planning to do something about it. That's what matters. Allowing Mercs to have such free reign simply reinforces the fact that CW is a farce.

OMG Bandito.... no salt by me, if you read my previous post.... but a big LOL.
CW is a farce because PGI did it like a pointless farce without CONTENT.

Not because Mercs are doing what PGI let them do since day one.

Very curious about those changes.

Anyway, I'm sure that u noticed how many little units parteciteted in Tuk2.
Why da hell those units do not join together in big units? esactly like MS founder groups did it, one year ago?

But guess what? PGi thought it would be a good idea to put a limit in member number. LOL.
"lol" because it won't change a rat..... but instead the opposite would be better: in CW the bigger, the better, and this is what any unit should do.


Very curious about what those prolific minds will deliver

Edited by Stefka Kerensky, 03 January 2016 - 06:45 AM.