27 replies to this topic

[grimzod]

Is Liao society, a proclaimed meritocracy, modeled on the society of North Korea?

Dictatorship (chancellorship retained through military patronage and repression), repression (caste society enforced from birth), murder to keep order (Death Commando s and Maskirovka turned on the populace to keep them in line), forced labor camps, military elites control industry.... discuss.

Edited by grimzod, 12 July 2012 - 08:44 AM.

[WardenWolf]

Yes - and we Davions have been trying for generations to liberate you from the tyrants who rule there with an iron first... but your people need to see the light, and help overthrow the repressive regime!

(That was said in the spirit of role-playing, for the record. In all actuality, from what I know of the lore the Laio government isn't nearly as bad as North Korea - think more like modern China.)

Edited by WardenWolf, 12 July 2012 - 08:46 AM.

[Davoke]

I was just going to answer "Yes.", but this Davion hotshot ruined it for me. :/

[ElAtaque]

Oh boy... If anything than it is based on both, ancient and modern China. You have clear reference for that in the novels and source books. Back in the 80´s when BT was designed North Korea was neither important nor interesting as a model society.

[Ter Ushaka]

grimzod, on 12 July 2012 - 08:40 AM, said:

Is Liao society, a proclaimed meritocracy, modeled on the society of North Korea?

Dictatorship (chancellorship retained through military patronage and repression), repression (caste society enforced from birth), murder to keep order (Death Commando s and Maskirovka turned on the populace to keep them in line), forced labor camps, military elites control industry.... discuss.

Sounds quite like the United States really.

[WardenWolf]

ElAtaque, on 12 July 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Back in the 80´s when BT was designed North Korea was neither important nor interesting as a model society.

Excellent point - I hadn't thought of the effect of when the lore was mostly written!

[grimzod]

Davions...always getting in FIRST!

My boot has anti davion foot odor. And its aimed at ya butts.

Seriously, the more I read in the 80s and 90s the more I hate the Liao. Disguised as a meritocracy, entrenched interests just rolled over billions to keep power and badly at that. Thats why I hope our faction warfare doesnt devolve into do what the frigging chancellor liao says. If its that I might go rogue and birdleg the lot fo them. We need to be able to make our own way. Preferrably north into Rasalhague to help out agains the Clans next year.

Ter Ushaka, on 12 July 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

Sounds quite like the United States really.

Sounds like you dont know what the hell your talking about. Making nationalistic attacks is against the posting rules wheras discussing Liao society and its similarities to the real worlld is not.

ElAtaque, on 12 July 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Oh boy... If anything than it is based on both, ancient and modern China. You have clear reference for that in the novels and source books. Back in the 80´s when BT was designed North Korea was neither important nor interesting as a model society.

Is it that or is it that North Korea has a little brother follow along thing going with China all these years that they're so similar. Probably that.

Edited by grimzod, 12 July 2012 - 08:57 AM.

[WardenWolf]

grimzod, on 12 July 2012 - 08:54 AM, said:

Seriously, the more I read in the 80s and 90s the more I hate the Liao.

So... why are you aligned with them, then? Just come over to the good guys team... I mean, House Davion! Or the FRR, if you prefer to role-play a Viking

[CTec]

Ter Ushaka, on 12 July 2012 - 08:52 AM, said:

Sounds quite like the United States really.

Seriously?

[Phirric]

If you DO go rogue and come north, just make sure you do it in such a way that it makes a good story in the mead hall, we care less about who you are if you can tell a good story, oh, and bring plenty of alcohol, we like that too!

[grimzod]

WardenWolf, on 12 July 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

So... why are you aligned with them, then? Just come over to the good guys team... I mean, House Davion! Or the FRR, if you prefer to role-play a Viking

Goodswarm is usually a good time. I had some fun in EVE merc'ing with them against a hated enemy there before I left that game. That and being Davion or Steiner is just too easy. You know everyone will join them (look a tthe numbers already). I'd like the challenge of taking Davion's economic bonuses out.

Edited by grimzod, 12 July 2012 - 08:59 AM.

[FireNova]

If I didn't know any better id say that ComStar/WoB is about as vicious, evil, manipulative, and destructive more than anything the Capellans could ever do.....(or wish to do for that matter)....

That being said, I don't think the Capellan fans/players should worry about it too much. ComStar/WoB will show their fugly faces soon enough.....

As far as the topic is concerned, yeah sadly the writers of the lore wanted to make a political statement with the whole 4th Succession War thing in the lore during the Cold War that was still raging in the 80s (not to mention take a stab at China by doing so....oh the irony of today's real world situation.....LOL).

Regardless, I don't think the whole "China/NK/politics injected into BT" thing should scare people away from making their faction choice. If anything I would hope the devs do not allow the "canon" to dominate too much of the gameplay seeing as how the very "canon" itself is very politically motivated in the lore by the writers...... (Operations Bulldog/Serpent is another blatant, but much less obvious example.....)

[Davoke]

You should join a mercenary unit.
Everyone knows they have more fun, and they get to make jokes about all the factions.

[Space Coyote]

Yah, BT history is clear about Liao's Chinese roots. I think the CapCon is based more or less on a Western 80s-90s worldview of China. In recent years the similarity has looked more like North Korea. Sun Tzu's reign parallels the rebranding of China in the last decade.

[grimzod]

FireNova, on 12 July 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

If I didn't know any better id say that ComStar/WoB is about as vicious, evil, manipulative, and destructive more than anything the Capellans could ever do.....(or wish to do for that matter)....

That being said, I don't think the Capellan fans/players should worry about it too much. ComStar/WoB will show their fugly faces soon enough.....

As far as the topic is concerned, yeah sadly the writers of the lore wanted to make a political statement with the whole 4th Succession War thing in the lore during the Cold War that was still raging in the 80s (not to mention take a stab at China by doing so....oh the irony of today's real world situation.....LOL).

Regardless, I don't think the whole "China/NK/politics injected into BT" thing should scare people away from making their faction choice. If anything I would hope the devs do not allow the "canon" to dominate too much of the gameplay seeing as how the very "canon" itself is very politically motivated in the lore by the writers...... (Operations Bulldog/Serpent is another blatant, but much less obvious example.....)

I agree. All the 'This is Liao' BS is getting on my nerves. I've played the game longer than many of them have been breathing and it doesnt bother me that I want to set a new direction for Liao. If it bothers them they need to chill out.

Davoke, on 12 July 2012 - 09:02 AM, said:

You should join a mercenary unit.
Everyone knows they have more fun, and they get to make jokes about all the factions.

They dont get faction rank though and I have a feeling that will matter when access to Clan spoils is up for grabs by the higher ranking faction players. That and faction specific mechs - of which there are a few Liao types I like.

[Adridos]

WardenWolf, on 12 July 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

So... why are you aligned with them, then? Just come over to the good guys team... I mean, House Davion! Or the FRR, if you prefer to role-play a Viking

Sounds like someone hates Catapults, Ravens and newly discovered Cataphracts... such a pity...

[grimzod]

I think I'll enjoy the Raven.

[Thorn Hallis]

I think we know to less about North Korea to judge on the actual similiarities.

WardenWolf, on 12 July 2012 - 08:56 AM, said:

Or the FRR, if you prefer to role-play a Viking

Or the Lyrans or Illyrans. Scandinavian heritage does not make you a Viking.

[Ter Ushaka]

CTec, on 12 July 2012 - 08:57 AM, said:

Seriously?

Not to drag this too much further offtopic, but yep. We've got caste repression, forced prison labor, and a blatent military-industrial partnership. The only thing missing is a violent police force turned on the population (wait a tick..) and a dictatorship, though for that one depending on who you talk to we have a new one taking office every 4-8 years.

So lol, it's totally China, amirite?

[Teirdome]

Agreed that it's more China than Korea.

The big bonus is that a field unit's power in Capellan space means more than in the other houses. In the other houses there are mountains of bureaucracy established so that chubby pencil pushers have more power than MechWarriors.