8 replies to this topic

[dreuseff]

Newbie here, asking the vets if I can make reasonable judgments about the tankiness of a mech based off of its Armor and Structure quirks?

I don't want to derail my question by focusing on a particular Mech, but here's an example...
I'm looking at the Panther, which according to the last update on Meta Mechs, has reasonable hit boxes. All variants have at least 10 pt boost to all their parts, one even has a 24 pt armor boost to both its arms! Compared to the Firestarter, which reportedly also has reasonable hit boxes and not one armor or structure quirk, I would like to assume that the Panther is going to be able to take a lot more fire and maybe even seem like a weakly outfitted medium.

As a side note, I'd like to recognize that tankiness is not the only thing that goes into survivability. Most notably in my example, the Panther is going to be at a severe speed disadvantage.

Anyone care to weigh in? Thanks a bunch!

[Bilbo]

It needs the quirks because it lacks speed. I doubt the quirks give it as much staying power as it loses by being slow. The only way to tell is to play the mech for a while and see if it works for you. In general, if a light mech is "tanky", it's hit boxes are broken.

[TheCaptainJZ]

The panther is a slow light. Quirks are usually there to try to counter an inherent deficiency in the chassis.

I personally do not like the panther. The weapons are concentrated on one easy to loose arm

Edited by TheCaptainJZ, 30 December 2015 - 11:43 AM.

[Nik Reaper]

That's a very relative thing to consider, yes +10/+24 pts of armor/structure are nice, but when you consider that that is about half of an medium range alpha of many metamechs, it is never much or enough to really feel it.

On lower level of skilled play as many players have trouble hitting small fast targets it can do a good job, and more staying power can effect a game , but as you climb up in skill you realize that the only thing keeping you alive is situational awareness ( witch is also what gets you killed most of the time ) positioning and rapid unpredictable movement , and let's put in good trades too for the hell of it.

Mediums and slow lights are something I do well in , but most light pilots go with max speed, and most veteran players prefer weapons qirks over armor/structure , but if a mech has good weapons quirks or outstanding weapon hardpoints and hitboxes and some extra armor/structure what's not to like .

Edited by Nik Reaper, 30 December 2015 - 11:56 AM.

[Koniving]

By quirks alone? No, not at all.

You can however judge it by a combination of the total armor/structure + hitboxes.

The Firestarter and Panther you mention have almost identical hitboxes and are nearly identical in size.

However, the Firestarter has a high number of hardpoints meant to be filled by lighter weapons, and can use larger engines for greater speed. In comparison the Panther has very limited hardpoints, is intended to be loaded with few but heavier weapons, and its engine limit can frankly suck for a game like MWO.

However, channel that armor to the front, take your time getting into battle and use the Panther as the ranged shooter it is meant to be and you will find yourself in an impressive battle machine.

[Roughneck45]

Most things that got quirked needed them to make up for some deficiency in the original design.

Tankiness in this game has a lot more to do with hitboxes and how easily the pilot is able to torso twist and absorb damage in desired locations.

The Atlas for example. Naturally tanky with a ton of armor and internal structure, but doubly so when the pilot is able to twist and use the massive arms to absorb damage instead of taking it all to the torso.

Edited by Roughneck45, 30 December 2015 - 02:14 PM.

[JC Daxion]

It's much more about hit boxes.. If a mech has big stucture quirks, it's more likely the hit boxes are easier to hit..

that said, a mech like the HBK has a nice bonus on the right torso which made it much more tanky.. But if you are unsure.. just post and ask about a specific mech. Some mechs have different variants which can be more tanky than others.. Due to weapon layout, or for example having an arm with no weapons that you can use to soak damage. When it blows off, nothing is lost

[jss78]

In my experience, the Panther is indeed quite tanky, and the hit-boxes are really good. The problem however is that in most builds most or all of your weapons are in your right arm. People tend to be quite good at targetting that RA, meaning that while you may remain alive, you may be without your (main) weapons. Torso twisting to protect that RA does help, but it's still a big liability.

Looking at another IS 35-tonner by comparison, the Wolfhound has hitboxes which feel very similar to me, and also tanks really well. However, it but has more of the weaponry in the torso, meaning that it'll generally remain not only alive but also capable of fighting, longer into the game.

Edit: I love Panthers, but IMO they are often misunderstood when people try to fit them into that cookie-cutter striker light mech mold, running the biggest possible XL engine and boating a maximum number of ML/MPL. There are much better mechs for that. I like to run mine in the lore-correct ranged combatant role, with one or two big guns in the RA (favourite is 2xERLL in the PNT-8Z, as you get amazing range due to the laser range quirks). I run with STD-200 to be able to shield with both LA and LT before losing any combat capability. It's all the speed you need for that role anyway. If you maintain some range, that RA becomes much easier to protect too.

Edited by jss78, 30 December 2015 - 03:18 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

tankyness is not solely a function of the amount of armor or structure, it also takes into account hitboxes, what type of engine you are using, twist speed, movement speed, weather you are moving or stationary

the structure or armor quirks can increase tankyness, but e.g. the Stalker with a standard engine is one of the tankyest Mechs in the game due to its excellent hitboxes for spreading damage, even with its quirks the Atlas feels less tanky than the Stalker.

for Light Mechs the Spider, Firestarter and Arctic Cheetah feel tanker than the other Lights because of excellent hitboxes, Jumpjets and high speed, some of the other Lights get structure quirks taking them to similar levels of tankyness, but none are more tanky than the 3 I mentioned provided you are using there mobility to spread damage, however on all Light Mechs the legs are always vulnerable.

for Mediums the tankyest are probably the Stormcrow, Griffin and Hunchback, the Stormcrow has the best hit boxes and its speed and agility can add to that, the Griffin has huge arms great for sheilding, if you put the sheild arm between you and the enemy fire they have to shoot through that arm to get to the torso ^{(when it is gone it still offers protection by reducing incoming damage by something like 60%)} then if you are using a Standard engine you can usualy sacrifice one side torso without loosing much firepower.