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Mm Isn't Working. I Quit, Till It Won't Be Fixed.


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#61 MrMadguy

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 03:12 PM

View PostxTrident, on 31 December 2015 - 12:37 PM, said:


I would question you personally on whether your stats are fairly level from match to match then? Or, at the very least excluding the stomps are your stats fairly consistent when in a close game? Because honestly mine are. Finding a play style that works well for me which is primarily more of a support role rather than an up front brawler if it's a pretty close match 350 to 450 damage is just about right with a kill - two if it's a good round. Below 350 damage isn't what I consider a good game. Below 200 is a bad game below 150 is basically terrible. And I mentioned above 500 is an excellent game for me.

Every game I've ever played that kept track of wins/losses/KDR/Points per match etc... if I've put a decent amount of time into it to allow fair averages they usually wind up just about perfect to what I'll do over the course of any given night. Gears of War 3 - 1.5 KDR; Play a few matches I may have a KDR of .8 one match. The next will be a 1.3, then a 2.2, then a terrible game with a .6 etc. They all average out to my overall average that had been developed over a long period of time. And the thing is, the most common KDR I'll get in matches is between a 1.2 and a 1.7 or so. The very same thing is happening in MWO.

Would that make for a good/decent MM? I have no idea, that's just something I've noticed over a lengthy gaming experience.

Same here. When I say "terrible match" - it's something with ~100 dmg and 0 kills. Good match - is something with at least 400dmg and 1-2 kills. And 1k dmg/6 kills - is something I consider a perfect match. I provided screenshot with >1000dmg only to show, that I'm not total noob or terribly bad player and that in balanced match I can perform really well. Actually such matches are really rare and I even take screenshots of every of it. I have about 5-6 such screenshots.

And that's how I was performing back in Open Beta - in every single match I was chasing this 1k dmg mark. Imagine it! In every single match! And what now? Every match is a stomp! Every match is terrible! I've analyzed the reasons for sudden change and came to a conclusion, that it's MM to blame for this problem. Why? Because...

1) If your team will be way too week - it will be stomped fast.
2) If your team will be way too strong - it will stomp other team fast.

So if there is an imbalance between teams - then match usually end as a stomp. And don't tell me about snowball effect. I saw dozens of stomps and it always begins with some players on one of the teams separating from the main group and performing suicidal attack on the other team. They just look like a noobs, who don't know, where should they go to stay safe - they just go to where their eyes look. One team looks organized and disciplined and other one - spontaneous and separated. And when you get a streak of such a stomp loses, then you ask fair question: why MM always offers me that terrible team? Shouldn't the chances of getting into noobish team be 50/50? M? Why me? Why? Is it something wrong with MM, that it always decides, that it's me, who should be stomped?

But this is not the end. Next we'll talk about balanced matches. What will happen in this case? Will every balanced match bring you enjoyment or it can be terrible too? Let's take perfect matches as the example. What should happen in this case? What should happen to allow you to do 1k dmg or achieve Death Star? If your team will be stronger, then other - they'll kill enemies way too fast, so you won't be able to do decent dmg. If your team will be weaker - enemies will kill you. So... Both your team and enemy team should be weak!

3) If both your team and enemy team are weaker, then you - then you'll have decent match!

But the opposite is true too! So, we are coming to...

4) If both your team and enemy team are stronger, then you - then you'll have terrible match most likely, cuz other players will outperform you, so your effort won't affect the results of match.

So. Good matches not only require teams to be balanced against each other - teams' skill should match your personal skill! Way too weak teams will cause way too decent performance for you and way too strong teams - way too poor performance. Do you see the pattern here? No? Back in Open Beta game was ok for me. Some matches even were decent ones.

And now what? I analyzed situation and came to a conclusion. I'm not perfect player. I need a few moments to react. I need a few moments to position my 'Mech, to beat convergence problem. I need a few moments to aim. My aim isn't perfect - I usually shot at "center of silhouette", cuz I don't have a time to analyze weak points of other 'Mech - I shoot at point, I have the best chance to hit. When 'Mech moves - my leading isn't perfect. At the end - my mouse isn't that perfect and tends to shake my crosshair. My tactics aren't perfect. I sense the situation on the battlefield perfectly due to my experience, but sometimes it's my curse. Sometimes I get into wrong place - where the most of enemy team is, without realizing, that it's better to let my team to be flanked or ambushed, but hide behind it, instead of instantly dying, trying to save it.

But... In the past players, who were playing against me, were playing the same way, as me. They couldn't instantly oneshot my CT or ST as soon, as I show my nose out of cover - my front armor was damaged evenly, which allowed me to survive for long enough time, to perform some maneuvers. They were hiding as soon, as they were taking damage in return. And now they are putting instant precise shoots into my STs from any distance. They are acting like a death ball - they don't retreat, when they are taking damage. They just rush at you and stomp you. They don't leave me any room for errors. One mistake - any you're dead. They react instantly and perfectly. That's also one of the stomp reasons. Way too skilled players vs way too skilled players = high risk of snowball effect. One mistake - and your team can't recover.

What that means? My allies and enemies had proper skill levels in the past and now MM offers me way too skilled allies and enemies. And we can't blame shrinking of population for it, as this matches still happen...somewhere. And if they still happen, then I'm asking myself. Why I'm here, with Tier 1 and 2 Meta players, and not there, where I belong to? And I have only one answer - terrible MM. And I don't want to play this game, till it won't be fixed and I won't return to where I belong to.

Edited by MrMadguy, 31 December 2015 - 03:25 PM.


#62 GRiPSViGiL

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 03:17 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 31 December 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:



Guy played the game for only a year, leaves for a long time, and comes back expecting to carry and surprised that he got stomped. What a laugh. Posted Image

Not far fetched at all. People take long breaks and still do great. I know I do. Less laughable than thinking tiers are tied to actual skill like some people.

#63 MrMadguy

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 03:35 PM

View PostDrxAbstract, on 31 December 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

You asked me if my stats are consistent per my average performance. Obviously - This is how the game establishes your 'averages'. My 'averages' are a factored reflection of all my games being 'averaged' together, which is why my 'average' may be better or worse than someone else's 'average' but will show some consistency relative to myself. Everyone has some consistency, but that wasnt the point. The point was the variations between this consistency as well as the maximum and minimum performances plus the variations between the established averages... That's how you answered your own question.

And you contradicted yourself by stating your game reports your 'averages' being more or less consistent with your 'average' game yet admitted to there being anomalous games where you do exceptionally well or poorly relative to your 'average', which means your average is also indicative of these factors as well and not necessarily as representative of your performance as you might think just because it's 'close'.

It's called a variable. Your averages are completely irrelevant - That was my point.

Just because you do well on 'average' and your 'average' stats reflect you repeating those results 'on average' does not change the fact those 'averages' were created by taking all the combined stats from all games and mashing them together to create an 'average'. It takes your absolute worst game and combines it with your absolute best games, forms an 'average' performance that you may or may not more or less adhere to, then completely disregards the fact that 'average' was created using the extremes of both scenarios in juxtapose to its established 'average' of you because the system was not and can not be designed to also take into consideration the fact that you have the potential to vary well beyond the established average sum of performance it has created for you.

Average value - is not the only tool, statistic has. Average value - is actually an expected value. But there are many more tools. Varience for example. Instability of your performance could be taken into account, when calculating your Skill Rating.

#64 Mister Blastman

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 05:37 PM

View PostxTrident, on 31 December 2015 - 12:02 PM, said:


500+ damage? Are you serious? 500+ damage is a great game for me. And I haven't had many matches at all with more than three or four players having 500+ damage. And that's for both teams. So that's typically 18 to 20 players a match that are hurting their team... That's a ridiculous statement especially even with a great team of 12 I don't know if they could all get 500+ damage each. Maybe if it was assaults vs. assaults. But that number seems unrealistic to me. It'd be fair to say doing 500+ damage is greatly helping your team.


I don't think it is ridiculous at all. The results speak for themselves. If you don't hold yourself to a higher standard you will never achieve your potential.

500+ damage is the gold standard for top players. If you aren't pulling 500+ average damage a drop, you aren't trying hard enough.

#65 xTrident

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 05:55 PM

View PostDrxAbstract, on 31 December 2015 - 02:28 PM, said:

You asked me if my stats are consistent per my average performance. Obviously - This is how the game establishes your 'averages'. My 'averages' are a factored reflection of all my games being 'averaged' together, which is why my 'average' may be better or worse than someone else's 'average' but will show some consistency relative to myself. Everyone has some consistency, but that wasnt the point. The point was the variations between this consistency as well as the maximum and minimum performances plus the variations between the established averages... That's how you answered your own question.

And you contradicted yourself by stating your game reports your 'averages' being more or less consistent with your 'average' game yet admitted to there being anomalous games where you do exceptionally well or poorly relative to your 'average', which means your average is also indicative of these factors as well and not necessarily as representative of your performance as you might think just because it's 'close'.

It's called a variable. Your averages are completely irrelevant - That was my point.

Just because you do well on 'average' and your 'average' stats reflect you repeating those results 'on average' does not change the fact those 'averages' were created by taking all the combined stats from all games and mashing them together to create an 'average'. It takes your absolute worst game and combines it with your absolute best games, forms an 'average' performance that you may or may not more or less adhere to, then completely disregards the fact that 'average' was created using the extremes of both scenarios in juxtapose to its established 'average' of you because the system was not and can not be designed to also take into consideration the fact that you have the potential to vary well beyond the established average sum of performance it has created for you.


Ahh okay. Yes, I get the idea behind averages and how very good and bad games will still seemingly average out to my overall average.

I had to go back and figure out what the premise behind the talk of these averages was. What I'm saying with my overall average being very similar to my per match averages is that - why wouldn't average stats be a good way for the MM system? The anomalies of really good and bad matches... who cares? As you said, those matches average out as well. That's entirely my point.


Now, when you talk about how one came to those averages - how they play the game and how it's impossible to measure such. Yeah, I get that. But it comes down to what's the best system to use? And that's shy I mentioned my experience being able to see other players averages actually reflecting how well they play the game.

#66 xTrident

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 06:01 PM

View PostMister Blastman, on 31 December 2015 - 05:37 PM, said:


I don't think it is ridiculous at all. The results speak for themselves. If you don't hold yourself to a higher standard you will never achieve your potential.

500+ damage is the gold standard for top players. If you aren't pulling 500+ average damage a drop, you aren't trying hard enough.


Not trying hard enough? It can't possibly be that I'm simply just not that good? I have had 500+ damage matches, but it's not a normal thing for me.

And you said it yourself, top players use 500+ damage as a measuring stick. Good for the top players. I'm not one of them and based on the stats I see after every match I play the large majority isn't either.

This idea that anyone can do that well with differing skill levels in gaming in general is off the mark, imo.

#67 Mister Blastman

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Posted 31 December 2015 - 06:38 PM

View PostxTrident, on 31 December 2015 - 06:01 PM, said:

Not trying hard enough? It can't possibly be that I'm simply just not that good? I have had 500+ damage matches, but it's not a normal thing for me.

And you said it yourself, top players use 500+ damage as a measuring stick. Good for the top players. I'm not one of them and based on the stats I see after every match I play the large majority isn't either.

This idea that anyone can do that well with differing skill levels in gaming in general is off the mark, imo.


Anyone can do that good. The only thing holding them back is their mind.

#68 Nightmare1

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Posted 01 January 2016 - 01:38 PM

View PostEl Bandito, on 31 December 2015 - 07:48 AM, said:



Guy played the game for only a year, leaves for a long time, and comes back expecting to carry and surprised that he got stomped. What a laugh. Posted Image



The funniest thing is, he'll be back again sometime in the future. He'll play a little more, post another thread, and give us all the same wicked case of deja vu.

Posted Image

#69 El Bandito

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 02:04 AM

View PostNightmare1, on 01 January 2016 - 01:38 PM, said:

The funniest thing is, he'll be back again sometime in the future. He'll play a little more, post another thread, and give us all the same wicked case of deja vu.

Posted Image



Well he is still playing as of today, in contrast of his words on quitting. Good for him. Posted Image

Posted Image

Edited by El Bandito, 03 January 2016 - 02:05 AM.


#70 Nightmare1

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Posted 03 January 2016 - 08:42 AM

View PostEl Bandito, on 03 January 2016 - 02:04 AM, said:



Well he is still playing as of today, in contrast of his words on quitting. Good for him. Posted Image

Posted Image



ROFL

#71 Domoneky

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Posted 14 January 2016 - 02:23 PM

Posted Image

#72 Nightmare1

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 09:15 AM

View PostDomoneky, on 14 January 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

Posted Image



Posted Image

#73 MarineTech

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Posted 15 January 2016 - 11:36 AM

huh?

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#74 David Sumner

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 02:28 AM

"500+ damage is the gold standard for top players. If you aren't pulling 500+ average damage a drop, you aren't trying hard enough."

That statement is inherently self contradicting.
Please try again.

#75 MarineTech

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Posted 16 March 2016 - 07:22 AM

Shhhhhhhhhh

Posted Image

This thread belongs to the birds now.

No more rational discussion.



#76 Bespoke Cheese Cake

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 03:14 AM

Herp A DERP DERP. Sniffs Bear bum and Says the cookies are ready...































What?

#77 MarineTech

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Posted 17 March 2016 - 05:12 AM

Posted Image

Huh?



#78 Bespoke Cheese Cake

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 12:31 AM

I thought you said rational discussion was over.

#79 MarineTech

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Posted 18 March 2016 - 06:13 AM

It is.

But there's a difference between

irrational discussion and gibberish.



#80 Bespoke Cheese Cake

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Posted 19 March 2016 - 02:05 AM

You walk a fine line it seems



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