62 replies to this topic

[Vxheous]

Wolfways, on 02 January 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

And bad/average IS players can easily beat bad/average clan.

FTFY

[Nayous]

Quote

Another bs thread because clan tech is better, but clanners need god mode to stoke their egos.

Most of the game issues are located at the psychological situation of the player - that's the easiest way to be
unconcernd about the actual gameplay.

We're just a little unit, but what we noticed

• Too High drop-tonnage (both sides)
  
• Sulfur-tactic 25-30% Ad.Laser Range - to sit on the spawn.
  
• Too much armor/innerstructure - (eg. 20armor/structure /MAD; 149 AS7 etc.)

and we're still fighting day after day...

[Wolfways]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 02 January 2016 - 10:15 PM, said:

FTFY

Still means that IS mechs are easier to use.

[Jae Hyun Nakamura]

Pat Kell, on 02 January 2016 - 08:08 PM, said:

Don't worry Jae, when all the other clanners have left, I will still be here for you to farm...if you can.

Challange accepted

[Vxheous]

Wolfways, on 02 January 2016 - 10:32 PM, said:

Still means that IS mechs are easier to use.

My Unit just spent a week in IS and switched back to Clan. This is the first game in as Clan.


Yesterday as IS, we dropped against the vaunted Bogeyman, the 12-man CW group (Granted we were a 10 man)


In the end, skill and teamwork > any perceived (in)balance between IS and Clan.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 03 January 2016 - 01:09 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 03 January 2016 - 01:03 AM, said:

My Unit just spent a week in IS and switched back to Clan. This is the first game in as Clan.


Yesterday as IS, we dropped against the vaunted Bogeyman, the 12-man CW group (Granted we were a 10 man)


In the end, skill and teamwork > any perceived (in)balance between IS and Clan.

Impossible. IS too OP to beat. I call HAX.

[Scratchicus]

LongJohnSilver, on 31 December 2015 - 05:28 PM, said:

And boy 'o boy is it unbalanced. I didn't think they could do it, but they managed it, IS is now so much better than Clan Tech its unreal. I don't even understand why they keep nerfing Clan tech when 'mechs like the Thunderbolt and Stalker exist, they have possibly the greatest hitboxes in the game and also possibly the best torso twist shielding, yet they get the best energy quirks and also decent armour quirks on top of it. Every game I played today was just LL boating on Stalkers and Thunderbolts, I saw more diversity on the Clan side than I did with Inner Sphere, didn't even think that was possible.

I just dropped for the first time in months. Haven't played CW in that long after I dropped on my pug team and encountered a entire team of laser vomit Timber wolves. All the same build. All the same......Oh and it was a entire pug group on IS entire Clan 12 man.

So I decided to try it. See how much better it was.....Jesus. Drop in my pug group....oh look a entire drop of Stormcrows with laser vomit....Well I mention this (which considering the clanners took great pride in their individualism I found funny) and how copy/paste is rather boring considering the possibilities in the game. Apparently that's reporting offence...ok don't care.

So next drop after I lose my cent while we take back the gun area...

Oh look the EXACT SAME THING. 12 Storm crows all burst out. Same route same path EVERYTHING.

At what point did CW just become copy paste warrior? Or am I wrong was it always that way?

Because seriously that's boring as hell.

[Vxheous]

Scratchicus, on 03 January 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

I just dropped for the first time in months. Haven't played CW in that long after I dropped on my pug team and encountered a entire team of laser vomit Timber wolves. All the same build. All the same......Oh and it was a entire pug group on IS entire Clan 12 man.

So I decided to try it. See how much better it was.....Jesus. Drop in my pug group....oh look a entire drop of Stormcrows with laser vomit....Well I mention this (which considering the clanners took great pride in their individualism I found funny) and how copy/paste is rather boring considering the possibilities in the game. Apparently that's reporting offence...ok don't care.

So next drop after I lose my cent while we take back the gun area...

Oh look the EXACT SAME THING. 12 Storm crows all burst out. Same route same path EVERYTHING.

At what point did CW just become copy paste warrior? Or am I wrong was it always that way?

Because seriously that's boring as hell.

I call BS, who brings stormcrows (especially organized groups) when you can 3 Timberwolf then follow with a cheetah? You speak about possibilities in the game, but if you actually understood how balance is right now, you would know that both IS and Clan gravitate to Lasers because they are the most effective builds right now. Pretty much all other weapons types are sub-par to lasers in a certain way, which makes it a no-brainer to bring laser builds if you want to be effective.

Edited by Vxheous Kerensky, 03 January 2016 - 10:59 AM.

[Wolfways]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 03 January 2016 - 01:03 AM, said:

In the end, skill and teamwork > any perceived (in)balance between IS and Clan.

Yes obviously, but ignoring skill and teamwork IS are just easier to play and way more forgiving if you make a mistake.

[Vxheous]

Wolfways, on 03 January 2016 - 03:05 PM, said:

Yes obviously, but ignoring skill and teamwork IS are just easier to play and way more forgiving if you make a mistake.

Forgiving in different ways. IS is more heat forgiving, so if you miss a shot, not as big a deal. Clan is more forgiving as you do not insta-die when you lose a side torso (like many meta IS builds). Only other real problem is that IS has more "proper" trial mechs now compared to the suckage that is the stock Clan Trials (see Ebj-C as example)

[MischiefSC]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 03 January 2016 - 04:18 PM, said:

Forgiving in different ways. IS is more heat forgiving, so if you miss a shot, not as big a deal. Clan is more forgiving as you do not insta-die when you lose a side torso (like many meta IS builds). Only other real problem is that IS has more "proper" trial mechs now compared to the suckage that is the stock Clan Trials (see Ebj-C as example)

The trial TW isn't terrible, but the EBJ is terrible. AC2s without enough ammo, SRM6s without Artemis, LRMs with... LRMs. If you're going to set new players up to screw their teams just make the trial EBJ switch red/blue target indicators. Who knows, they might get lucky and actually kill someone by surprise with a TK. Scrow is bad too. A Scrow MPL boat? For the love of god, why? The trial Executioner should be called the Cadet Eliminator, the thing is designed to overheat and kill whatever silly ******* tried to learn to play the game in it. Even the ACH.... CSML? Not SPLs? Why?!?

The IS trials are not terrible but they're not great.

[Wolfways]

Vxheous Kerensky, on 03 January 2016 - 04:18 PM, said:

Forgiving in different ways. IS is more heat forgiving, so if you miss a shot, not as big a deal. Clan is more forgiving as you do not insta-die when you lose a side torso (like many meta IS builds). Only other real problem is that IS has more "proper" trial mechs now compared to the suckage that is the stock Clan Trials (see Ebj-C as example)

I don't know why people make such a big deal about the clan XL. So if you lose a st you get to live for a few more seconds? Big deal. Not that i see clan mechs losing st's very often, their ct's blow out almost instantly.

The heat system is the worst thing in the game, and imo more heat on anything is a massive nerf.

But I don't play meta, and if pgi are balancing for meta...

[MischiefSC]

Clan XL is a big deal because -

you have the survivability of a STD

speed of an XL

When you lose a ST, all you lose is the extra in-engine DHS and speed having an XL instead of a STD gave you. So it's like having an XL, until you lose a ST, then it hands like a comparable IS mech with a ST does.

It's a significant advantage.

[Vxheous]

Wolfways, on 03 January 2016 - 10:38 PM, said:

I don't know why people make such a big deal about the clan XL. So if you lose a st you get to live for a few more seconds? Big deal. Not that i see clan mechs losing st's very often, their ct's blow out almost instantly.

The heat system is the worst thing in the game, and imo more heat on anything is a massive nerf.

But I don't play meta, and if pgi are balancing for meta...

I always lose ST's far before I lose CT, unless I accidently crest into a firing line. If you are getting CT deathed all the time, it means you are not doing a good enough job spreading damage.

[DarklightCA]

Wolfways, on 03 January 2016 - 10:38 PM, said:

I don't know why people make such a big deal about the clan XL. So if you lose a st you get to live for a few more seconds? Big deal. Not that i see clan mechs losing st's very often, their ct's blow out almost instantly.

The heat system is the worst thing in the game, and imo more heat on anything is a massive nerf.

But I don't play meta, and if pgi are balancing for meta...

Are you for real? You have the weight and speed of a XL engine with the survivability of a standard engine and you think that's not a big deal? If you lose a ST you don't only fight for a few seconds, you can survive and fight for the rest of the entire game if you play your cards right using whatever weapons you still have left which is still very important at kill securing cored mech's as battles still go on, so yeah very important.

Edited by l)arklight, 04 January 2016 - 08:54 PM.

[MischiefSC]

l)arklight, on 04 January 2016 - 08:54 PM, said:

Are you for real? You have the weight and speed of a XL engine with the survivability of a standard engine and you think that's not a big deal? If you lose a ST you don't only fight for a few seconds, you can survive and fight for the rest of the entire game if you play your cards right using whatever weapons you still have left which is still very important at kill securing cored mech's as battles still go on, so yeah very important.

Clearly you are a scrub and an IS fanboi who knows nothing about how the game plays. What is that, 228th IBR? Who's even heard of you guys? Wolfways is part of a VERY IMPORTANT UNIT and has absolutely no bias as well as a huge amount of experience in CW in both IS and Clans. You guys have probably only played a few matches in IS only.

[Wolfways]

It's funny how some people lose their **** just because someone else has a completely different experience in the game than they do. Kind of like how some complain that LRM's are OP while others say they are useless.

My experiences in MWO tell me that by the time I'm so damaged that I lose a st the rest of my mech is barely hanging together and the next hit or two will destroy it, and as nearly every match devolves into a brawl those next few hits are usually within the next few seconds.

You're right on one point though, I have no bias. I play clan and IS and do very well in IS mechs. Clan mechs...not so much because they feel like they have paper armour, and that's not just because IS mechs got quirks. I've never used an IS mech who's st's fall off from just a couple of hits.

But what do I know? I'm just a player who isn't part of any unit and certainly doesn't consider any units "important" lol.
Please feel free to continue to insult anyone who doesn't agree with you.

[Vxheous]

Wolfways, on 05 January 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

It's funny how some people lose their **** just because someone else has a completely different experience in the game than they do. Kind of like how some complain that LRM's are OP while others say they are useless.

My experiences in MWO tell me that by the time I'm so damaged that I lose a st the rest of my mech is barely hanging together and the next hit or two will destroy it, and as nearly every match devolves into a brawl those next few hits are usually within the next few seconds.

You're right on one point though, I have no bias. I play clan and IS and do very well in IS mechs. Clan mechs...not so much because they feel like they have paper armour, and that's not just because IS mechs got quirks. I've never used an IS mech who's st's fall off from just a couple of hits.

But what do I know? I'm just a player who isn't part of any unit and certainly doesn't consider any units "important" lol.
Please feel free to continue to insult anyone who doesn't agree with you.

LRMs are both OP and useless (a bit of an oxymoron) depending on what tier you play at. Tier 5 LRMs can and will decimate opponents simply because they stand out in the open get rofl-locked and nuked. Totally different experience as you go up the tiers simply because people know to use ECM/radar dep/cover/not stand in open/proper peek and poke trade.

[MischiefSC]

Wolfways, on 05 January 2016 - 09:03 AM, said:

It's funny how some people lose their **** just because someone else has a completely different experience in the game than they do. Kind of like how some complain that LRM's are OP while others say they are useless.

My experiences in MWO tell me that by the time I'm so damaged that I lose a st the rest of my mech is barely hanging together and the next hit or two will destroy it, and as nearly every match devolves into a brawl those next few hits are usually within the next few seconds.

You're right on one point though, I have no bias. I play clan and IS and do very well in IS mechs. Clan mechs...not so much because they feel like they have paper armour, and that's not just because IS mechs got quirks. I've never used an IS mech who's st's fall off from just a couple of hits.

But what do I know? I'm just a player who isn't part of any unit and certainly doesn't consider any units "important" lol.
Please feel free to continue to insult anyone who doesn't agree with you.

What you're talking about is called confirmation bias. We all do it. It's how your brain works. You have a specific opinion and what you remember moulds itself to that opinion and you will inherently seek out information and people who reinforce that opinion.

That's why it's important to try and put your opinions aside and look at who is saying what and what the overall telemetry is saying. I'm not that good in a BJ. If you'd asked me I'd say they are mediocre. Good, not great. However my perception is colored by my playstyle and as such I struggle to play the BJ to its strengths. My opinion of their effectiveness can't be trusted.

I still say the SCR is better overall but that's more about it having almost 25% more tonnage to play with. A 55 ton mech like the Shawk with BJ quirks would be broken as ****. In a knife fight on a cool map the BJ still has a big advantage. It may not so much for me but I acknowledge the consensus and experience of people with more familiarity than myself that it's true.

So it's important that we step back from our own opinions and look at the realities of performance telemetry and consensus of the people who play the relative mechs most efficiently. Having an opinion isn't the same as having a fact. The truth is not a balance point between opinions, it's a testable and verifiable reality that is divorced from anyone's opinions.

The truth right now is that Clan IS balance overall is razor thin close. The IS could stand to lose the 10 ton deck advantage. Sub-par builds on either side are at a bigger inferiority gap than they were before and that hits the Clans harder than the IS relative to where they used to be.

[Aramoro999]

Appogee, on 02 January 2016 - 03:07 AM, said:

If the only Mechs that IS players brought to CW matches were Stalkers and Thunderbolts, then your statement would be true.

But that is rarely the case outside outside of large organised teams. In reality, PUGs and even some teams bring many Mechs other than the heavily-quirked IS Mechs.

What? They bring other mechs?
And what does pugs have to do whit this?