60 replies to this topic

[Alex Novian]

AC are mostly fine... I would like to see radar range convergance on locked targets...that would give you and increased accuracy at close ranges.

[Alex Novian]

El Bandito....

No, the reason was called power creep. Happens in a great many games as it did with TT, Have the make everything we did before weaker so if you want to stay current you have to get the New, Bigger, Better, Faster to stay competitive.

Edited by Alex Novian, 01 January 2016 - 05:06 AM.

[zagibu]

Alex Novian, on 01 January 2016 - 05:04 AM, said:

El Bandito....

No, the reason was called power creep. Happens in a great many games as it did with TT, Have the make everything we did before weaker so if you want to stay current you have to get the New, Bigger, Better, Faster to stay competitive.

So why is the Timberwolf, a clan wave 1 mech, still superior to everything that came after?

[Khobai]

Quote

So why is the Timberwolf, a clan wave 1 mech, still superior to everything that came after?

its not superior to the ebon jaguar at all.

[Metus regem]

Khobai, on 01 January 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

its not superior to the ebon jaguar at all.

As far as MWO goes, your right, but in TT, it had more armour as well as a jumping unit option... Jumping in TT was actually jumping, not hover jets...

[xWiredx]

OP - Bring a laser-only DWF and I'll meet you with my AC DWF. We'll see exactly how much ACs don't suck.

[Khobai]

Quote

OP - Bring a laser-only DWF and I'll meet you with my AC DWF. We'll see exactly how much ACs don't suck.

if the game was 1v1 that might actually be relevant

game is 12v12 and in 12v12 an AC DWF sucks balls compared to fast moving laser vomiting heavies

[Ultimax]

Khobai, on 01 January 2016 - 04:45 AM, said:

Thats the problem right there. Theyre DPS weapons. But the current meta is BURSTFIRE.

Current meta is about hiding in cover, popping out for 2 seconds, alphastriking everything you have into the enemy, then popping back into cover to cool down.

That was the previous meta as well.

The difference is, IS ACs had a weapon they could synergize with on builds - one that provided excellent ability to trade and reduce ammo reliance on longer ranges.


That's what PPCs did for AC builds, when PPCs got nerfed and lost what is effectively accuracy at trading due to velocity decrease - then ACs lost a weapon to be paired with.

You can pair ACs with Lasers, but its generally more efficient to pair lasers with more lasers rather than trying to make two incompatible firing mechanisms work together.



Boost PPCs and ACs will come back into play. PPCs/ERPPCs need to be competitive vs. lasers in the 500-800m range brackets, and in order to do that they need minimum 1500m/s velocity.

That would be enough without quirks, but now in the age of quirks? Now they will also need heat reduction.



As much as many players want their "DPS / Dakka" builds to be effective, we've already seen that in order for this to be a viable method of dealing damage, it actually needs to be borderline overpowered.

Take a look at the last year and the handful of dakka builds that were actually in play: DWF, Dragon 1N, Jager with 3x UAC 5s, etc.

The only DPS / Dakka builds that work are ones that can basically annihilate a target in a fairly short time frame.


People complained for those builds to be nerfed, and now they complain that dakka isn't strong enough.


This is what happens when clueless people ask for a thing without understanding what it actually is.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 01 January 2016 - 11:52 AM.

[Sandpit]

zagibu, on 01 January 2016 - 04:47 AM, said:

Well, during this time, ACs had 3x max range and mechs didn't have energy weapon quirks. Lasers became popular with the introduction of the clans and subsequent introduction of IS quirks. Before that, it was PPFLD all day every day.

IS lasers are still kind of bad without quirks.

I know, I was there

IS lasers have never been bad. They just haven't. If they had been my stats would never have been as good as they are.

Want to know one of the reasons I "buck the meta" so much? It's because if I, who am Tier 3 and in self-analysis admits to being MAYBE slightly better than average, can take a "bad" (insert mech, weapon, etc. here)" and do well with it, then factually it's not nearly as bad as others are saying.

The ONLY weapons in this game that are "bad" or "inferior" or "useless" really are flamers and IS small lasers. Other than that, you can take any other weapon system in this game and do well with it. You personally might not due to personal skills and preferences, but it can still be done.

That's why if you'll notice you never see me comment on balance on something I haven't had a decent amount of experience using. I try to give an unbiased view of weapon balance. Too many people would like to dictate balance based on their personal limitations and preferences, which is why you should always take opinions regarding just about anything anywhere (but most of all MWO weapon balance) with a grain of salt.

[zagibu]

Sandpit, on 01 January 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

IS lasers have never been bad. They just haven't. If they had been my stats would never have been as good as they are.

Want to know one of the reasons I "buck the meta" so much? It's because if I, who am Tier 3 and in self-analysis admits to being MAYBE slightly better than average, can take a "bad" (insert mech, weapon, etc. here)" and do well with it, then factually it's not nearly as bad as others are saying.

Another conclusion could be that you simply suck with other weapons.

[BigBenn]

AC's need one thing: more velocity. Ditto with PPC's.

[Sandpit]

zagibu, on 01 January 2016 - 12:12 PM, said:

Another conclusion could be that you simply suck with other weapons.

Sandpit, on 01 January 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

Too many people would like to dictate balance based on their personal limitations and preferences, which is why you should always take opinions regarding just about anything anywhere (but most of all MWO weapon balance) with a grain of salt.

[Mcgral18]

zagibu, on 01 January 2016 - 04:47 AM, said:

Well, during this time, ACs had 3x max range and mechs didn't have energy weapon quirks. Lasers became popular with the introduction of the clans and subsequent introduction of IS quirks. Before that, it was PPFLD all day every day.

IS lasers are still kind of bad without quirks.

Sandpit, on 01 January 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

I know, I was there

IS lasers have never been bad. They just haven't. If they had been my stats would never have been as good as they are.

HSR also had an impact.

Ballistic HSR came first, getting more reliable hits.

[Davegt27]

Sad say one thing and other people say the complete opposite

[Eglar]

I completely agree with OP and since LRMs suck too, we could combine the strengths of both weapon types and create the new Homing Autocannons:

[Eglar]

On a more serious note and disregarding quirks:
Quickdraw with 3 lpls and 2 reasonable JJs: 4.63 sustained DPS
JagerMech-DD with 3xUAC5s and reasonable 8.5tons of ammo: 8.85 sustained DPS

there is your difference, you can try to change the QCKs engines or add/remove weapons but you will find out that the result is always similar.

[Strum Wealh]

zagibu, on 01 January 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

So why is the Timberwolf, a clan wave 1 mech, still superior to everything that came after?

It's only a matter of time...

Just wait until PGI brings the Night Gyr into MWO...

[Kuritaclan]

Sandpit, on 31 December 2015 - 08:37 PM, said:

no thanks
one thing people who call for blanket nerfs on lasers like this forget?

Here's a good example of the trade-off that everyone seems to conveniently leave out.

AC 10 = 10 damage
LL - 8 damage
right?

AC 10 hits it deals 10 damage to one spot
LL hits but the target moves and it may only do 10% of its damage for the same heat

*eyebrow pull up* - this is not what the TE said in regards to hitscan. And you also don't factor in how clan ACs better called UACs work in this game.

[Sandpit]

Kuritaclan, on 01 January 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

*eyebrow pull up* - this is not what the TE said in regards to hitscan. And you also don't factor in how clan ACs better called UACs work in this game.

Lasers do not do full damage on one shot. If you glance a target you do a small % of damage for same amount of heat

Edited by Sandpit, 01 January 2016 - 02:54 PM.

[Kuritaclan]

Sandpit, on 01 January 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

Lasers do not do full damage on one shot. If you glance a target you do a small % of damage for same amount of heat

what a news