86 replies to this topic

[MechB Kotare]

Im fine with the cooldown increase. One second extra decreased Gauss brawling close range DPS capabilities.

Charge up is unnecessary mechanic though.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 03 January 2016 - 01:11 PM.

[M T]

But...
But...

It was too powerful for our steam newcomers!

Lurms on the other hand however...

Edited by MTs Cavia Porcellus, 03 January 2016 - 01:52 PM.

[Delpheus Merideus]

MTs Cavia Porcellus, on 03 January 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

But...
But...

It was too powerful for our steam newcomers!

Lurms on the other hand however...

Yeah, seriously... why should a weapon that YOU DO NOT NEED TO AIM be more powerful than a weapon that requires skill to aim, must be charged up, and has the longest cooldown in the game?

[Narkos Fera]

is it still possible to play a dual GAUSS build? i mean a Sniper build, only for sniping. no brawling, you can throw that weapon on the mech in front of you and this would be more effective than with a 5,5 CD and a 0,75 charge up.

I still want to build a active sniper build that require skill and positioning and also a high perception on what is going around of you.
I cant say, how i hate CWs with LRM hopping Mechs in their base. As Delpheus Merideus said, its a joke that a weapon with no direct contact to you enemy makes more damage (DOT) that a a precision weapon.

So, is it still possible to kill the Mechs with shots in their knees or crictial body parts from more than 900 meters?

I only what to play that thing in CW on a defending position. maybe with JJ for more mobility and to reach taler spots.

[Anachronda]

Narkos Fera, on 04 January 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:

is it still possible to play a dual GAUSS build? i mean a Sniper build, only for sniping. no brawling, you can throw that weapon on the mech in front of you and this would be more effective than with a 5,5 CD and a 0,75 charge up.

I still want to build a active sniper build that require skill and positioning and also a high perception on what is going around of you.
I cant say, how i hate CWs with LRM hopping Mechs in their base. As Delpheus Merideus said, its a joke that a weapon with no direct contact to you enemy makes more damage (DOT) that a a precision weapon.

So, is it still possible to kill the Mechs with shots in their knees or crictial body parts from more than 900 meters?

I only what to play that thing in CW on a defending position. maybe with JJ for more mobility and to reach taler spots.

There are dual gauss Jagermech builds and dual gauss King Crab builds. The nerf that allowed only two rifles to be charged at the same time was in place long before I got my gauss KGC, which I found useful. I don't bring it to CW anymore but I don't see how this nerf would stop that working. I used the gauss KGC at both long and short range before, but usually long range. I kind ofshied away from gauss on some mechs mainly because of the frequent explosions, but on a KGC gauss is in the arms and I have a STD engine. I have played with people who still run gauss Jagers so I would imagine they are still okay.

I also disagree with it being useless in a brawl with this nerf. Before this I dual gaussed people in the face plenty and used gauss on other mechs fairly close in. I found I like brawling and am better at it than sniping. A couple of my Marauder builds use gauss. They're the only mechs I have had survive gauss explosions in the torso. Not all the time, but often enough not to be as afraid. My bounty hunter build has gauss, 2xerlll, and 3xmlas. So I can and do inflict damage at a distance, but if someone gets in my face I am quite happy to inject gauss rounds. As you might imagine those lasers can get a mite hot, and the gauss rifle gives me something to fire while cooling off.

Sniping in this game seems to be more like chipping away as there are generally no one shot kills. Gauss hurts a lot whether you have armor or not.

Edited by Anachronda, 04 January 2016 - 12:06 PM.

[Delpheus Merideus]

Anachronda, on 04 January 2016 - 12:04 PM, said:

There are dual gauss Jagermech builds and dual gauss King Crab builds. The nerf that allowed only two rifles to be charged at the same time was in place long before I got my gauss KGC, which I found useful. I don't bring it to CW anymore but I don't see how this nerf would stop that working. I used the gauss KGC at both long and short range before, but usually long range. I kind ofshied away from gauss on some mechs mainly because of the frequent explosions, but on a KGC gauss is in the arms and I have a STD engine. I have played with people who still run gauss Jagers so I would imagine they are still okay.

I also disagree with it being useless in a brawl with this nerf. Before this I dual gaussed people in the face plenty and used gauss on other mechs fairly close in. I found I like brawling and am better at it than sniping. A couple of my Marauder builds use gauss. They're the only mechs I have had survive gauss explosions in the torso. Not all the time, but often enough not to be as afraid. My bounty hunter build has gauss, 2xerlll, and 3xmlas. So I can and do inflict damage at a distance, but if someone gets in my face I am quite happy to inject gauss rounds. As you might imagine those lasers can get a mite hot, and the gauss rifle gives me something to fire while cooling off.

Sniping in this game seems to be more like chipping away as there are generally no one shot kills. Gauss hurts a lot whether you have armor or not.

I mained a guass jaeger for a long time, until this nerf. They are not still okay.
I disagree with the notion that gauss should be a be a backup, to be used when your weapons are cooling...really, that is all it can be used for now, and that's a damn shame.

Why not a nerf to LRMS? I haven't complained about those no-skill weapons and just sucked it up, proudly sniping them with a weapon I have to aim with, doing my best to overcome cheese with skill.

Seriously, any time i got sniped with a guass I cursed, not to say "what a damn noob" but rather "damn hes good" because as I fellow sniper I understood the skill and patience it takes to make good shots.

Which brings me again to the point of penalizing skilled players by removing their weapons and forcing them into ever more narrow types of builds...

It was nice to have something other than ACs, lasers, and missiles to round out our options.

Edited by Delpheus Merideus, 04 January 2016 - 06:57 PM.

[gloowa]

Delpheus Merideus, on 04 January 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

Seriously, any time i got sniped with a guass I cursed, not to say "what a damn noob" but rather "damn hes good" because as I fellow sniper I understood the skill and patience it takes to make good shots.

Please. Gauss was, and still is, the easiest projectile weapon to land hits with over long range. PPCs are slower, all other ballistics are slower, requiring more leading. On top of that, gauss does more damage. The only weapon that's easier to use is ERLL.

[Yozaa]

Brawling is inherently risky

Best used when the enemy is not that good

Shoot them from a far means less to shoot when they iz close, 2 cents

Guass is fine cuz now it is a long range weapon and not the spammers choice (Guilty

Charge up ain't that hard to master ( even pop tarting)

Edit:spelling

Edited by Yozaa, 05 January 2016 - 09:52 AM.

[Yozaa]

Bro's
abuse **** to bring balance
It is your duty

[Vlad Striker]

May be this nerf need to prevent 12x double-gauss CW drop but really it is punishment of all the players.

[Void Angel]

Edit: misunderstood which nerf he was talking about. Sorry about that. Leaving the post because it does apply to other posters, and deleted quote.

... No. Gauss was being used as a brawling weapon, but the Clans did not exist in the game at that time. The charge mechanic was implemented to help de-synchronize the Gauss Rifle from the (ER)PPC in addition to making it a more dedicated long-range weapon. Essentially it was one of the measures taken back in the day which were intended to tone down the 45-damage pinpoint-alpha poptart meta without destroying the tactic entirely. The Gauss charge-up was implemented in the 03SEP2013 patch, while the Clans were not released until the Summer of 2014.

PS: Once again (to whom it may concern, not you) citing tabletop rulesets - or "the lore" - in a balance discussion is invalid argument, and demonstrates only that you are unwilling (and thus unqualified) to talk about the subject at hand.

Edited by Void Angel, 05 January 2016 - 12:06 PM.

[Anachronda]

gloowa, on 05 January 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

Please. Gauss was, and still is, the easiest projectile weapon to land hits with over long range. PPCs are slower, all other ballistics are slower, requiring more leading. On top of that, gauss does more damage. The only weapon that's easier to use is ERLL.

Yeah, ERPPCs have been trouble for me. It seems they are perversely not so viable at long range, even against stationary targets. They can literally dodge. ERPPCs are actually better for close range because they lack the 90m minimum of PPCs. In the end, I kind of quit using them. Some people still do and that is good for them, but I mostly quit using them.

Weren't their velocities nerfed recently? Seems like some quirks for that were but I can't swear to it. It's kind of silly how slow PPCs travel. I don't think current technology could produce a particle cannon that is anything like as slow as they are. It's like Mooninite lasers.

Edited by Anachronda, 05 January 2016 - 12:03 PM.

[Void Angel]

Vlad Striker, on 05 January 2016 - 10:54 AM, said:

May be this nerf need to prevent 12x double-gauss CW drop but really it is punishment of all the players.

The Gauss Rifle was being used to supplement laser vomit - that's more likely why it got nerfed. Clans especially were mounting as many lasers as they could use without melting down, and then simply using the Gauss Rifle to fill out the builds. Effectively, that combination did more damage per heat than any other build in the game at comparable range. This created the long-range laser vomit disco rave fights that everybody so loved, and PGI seems to have decided that it was doing too much DPS. If that's the case, nerfing the Gauss Rifle's dps is the most effective way to tone that down - otherwise, you'd end up nerfing every build that uses lasers, which is a lot more builds than use Gauss.

That being said, the Gauss Rifle feels like it lost too much - do the math; that's a thirty-three percent increase in cooldown time, factoring in the charge-up. I'm not the best with Gauss Rifles since the charge (just never made the time to practice as I ought,) but trying to use them feels incredibly slow now. Some of that is just re-training myself to automatically expect that huge proportional increase, but I'd be shocked if the range, muzzle velocity, and pinpoint damage of the weapon really counterbalance the massively decreased damage output overall.

Really, the change I'd most like to see is a removal or drastic shortening of the charge mechanic, coupled with a slight reduction of the overall cooldown time as well.

[Narkos Fera]

gloowa, on 05 January 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

Please. Gauss was, and still is, the easiest projectile weapon to land hits with over long range. PPCs are slower, all other ballistics are slower, requiring more leading. On top of that, gauss does more damage. The only weapon that's easier to use is ERLL.

i saw some sniper builds with PPCs. and i saw their position nearly in an instant.. you can avoid it easier, thats right, it needs more skill to hit with these things, because of the low velocity. but its like the ERLL, you slap right into the face with "hey im here" Even if you shoot someone in his back, you can be deteceted very easy.
thats why i like balistic weapons. no smoketrail, no 1,25 seconds of being out of cover and of top, no huge "guiding signal"

I like to see that kind of weapon as a tactical harrasment.
let them get into a fight, better get into their back and rip through those arm and leg armor.

but thats my opinion, maybe so more experienced player like lasers more because you are not addicted from a certain amount of ammunition, or because they dont blow half of your mech away, if they get destroyed

[Vlad Striker]

There was VERY effective combo of 3 LL+ 1GR... But only for IS. Clan GR could be the same 4 sec cooldown... 5 cerml+ 1cgr very hot combo. 2 cLPL + 1gr acceptable.

[MechB Kotare]

Delpheus Merideus, on 03 January 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

Yeah, seriously... why should a weapon that YOU DO NOT NEED TO AIM be more powerful than a weapon that requires skill to aim, must be charged up, and has the longest cooldown in the game?

Yet another bullcrap comming from your rant. Efficient use of LRMs requires skill as well. Positional and situational awareness is vital in order to use lrms effectively. It actually requires more skill than a simple first person shooter type of weapon like gauss is, unless you have pure LRM boat with 10000 rockets to shoot, and you stand behind rock spamming LRMs at any spotted target.

If you are limited to only few however, you are forced to think twice before launching LRMs. LRMs require more skill and experience, your ability to move according to situation you find yourself in, and your ability to predict whether or not locked target has a chance to get into cover before LRM impact decides all. Gauss requires only aim. It is actually the most easiest weapon to use, thanks to its fast projectile it hits almost instantly (at 600m). Charge up mechanic is the only factor that keeps Gauss from recieving a title of the most easiest weapon to master in MWO.

So.... L2P

Edited by MechB Kotare, 05 January 2016 - 04:07 PM.

[WANTED]

Gauss is only easy to hit with when the target is coming at you. Most of the time they are not and it does require more skill than you say to hit since I have to anticipate lead when a mech is going 97kph perpendicular to my position.

[Delpheus Merideus]

MechB Kotare, on 05 January 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:

Yet another bullcrap comming from your rant. Efficient use of LRMs requires skill as well. Positional and situational awareness is vital in order to use lrms effectively. It actually requires more skill than a simple first person shooter type of weapon like gauss is, unless you have pure LRM boat with 10000 rockets to shoot, and you stand behind rock spamming LRMs at any spotted target.

If you are limited to only few however, you are forced to think twice before launching LRMs. LRMs require more skill and experience, your ability to move according to situation you find yourself in, and your ability to predict whether or not locked target has a chance to get into cover before LRM impact decides all. Gauss requires only aim. It is actually the most easiest weapon to use, thanks to its fast projectile it hits almost instantly (at 600m). Charge up mechanic is the only factor that keeps Gauss from recieving a title of the most easiest weapon to master in MWO.

So.... L2P

Have you used the guass rifle? That entire post is absolutely ridiculous and wrong on every point. Its practically on the level of trolling to say that aiming requires no skill. Guass doesn't fire over cover and automatically track the enemy.

Aiming requires skill. Anticipating speed and direction and distance for leading targets requires skill.

Fire and forget LRM spray and pray spam requires less skill than every other weapon in the game.

[MechB Kotare]

Delpheus Merideus, on 05 January 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

Have you used the guass rifle? That entire post is absolutely ridiculous and wrong on every point. Its practically on the level of trolling to say that aiming requires no skill. Guass doesn't fire over cover and automatically track the enemy.

Aiming requires skill. Anticipating speed and direction and distance for leading targets requires skill.

Fire and forget LRM spray and pray spam requires less skill than every other weapon in the game.

Not really. Im saying that good aim doesnt determine overall skill of a shooter in MWO. Gauss doesnt fire over cover, and doesnt automatically track the enemy, but gauss doesnt need a lock in first place. Have you ever played LRMs? They are quite useless without lock.

If i ever used gauss? Wanna friendly 1v1? I'll use gauss build, and you can use anything else.

Anticipating speed, direction and distance requires certain degree of skill, but applies significantly more for slower projectiles like ACs. You dont need to anticipate much, when fighting within gauss optimal range. Anticipating speed, direction and distance at long range is pretty much requirement for more weapons than just gauss. That being said, why would you shoot at enemy from 2000m, dealing only half of its damage, when you can do 15ppd at 600? Waste of ammo. The closer the targed is, the easier it is to hit it. Especially with gauss rifle.

Aiming requires skill. But level of pilot's skill in MWO is determined by more than just the aim. Situational awareness, enviromental awareness, use of cover, status of friendlies, use of map, caution, cooperation, focusing targets...

Sounds more like whinning about LRM indirect capabilities causing you so much of that annoying screen shake. Something had to be done to gauss. Skilled players got used to the charge up, and soon, it became a must in almost every build on almost every mech. Im guessing, that no matter what has been done to gauss, ranters like you wouldn't stop, because their precious easy mode weapon got a bit tunned down. Lets be real, 1 second extra to gauss' cooldown is nothing. Would you rather see heat increase? or damage decrease? No. You would rant exacly the same way, creating exacly the same useless ranting threads, looking for attention where there is none to be found.

My posts/replies are ridiculous. As much as your 'QQgimmebackmyeasymodeweapon" threads. Especially after knowing, that once change got reversed, others would hop on forums ranting how is Gauss 'OP' again.

Edited by MechB Kotare, 05 January 2016 - 06:30 PM.

[Drunk Canuck]

Grothlamarath, on 31 December 2015 - 11:51 PM, said:

Say that to a quad gauss dire wolf, when you on the other end. No charge means instant 120 point alpha into one spot....is that what you want?

Wrong, since you can only fire two at a time and they only do 15 points of damage each. 30 point alpha is nothing, we ate those for breakfast, lunch and dinner when the Highlander and Dragon Slayer came out.