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Gauss Nerf Unacceptable

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#41 Drunk Canuck

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 07:10 PM

View PostMechB Kotare, on 05 January 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:


Yet another bullcrap comming from your rant. Efficient use of LRMs requires skill as well. Positional and situational awareness is vital in order to use lrms effectively. It actually requires more skill than a simple first person shooter type of weapon like gauss is, unless you have pure LRM boat with 10000 rockets to shoot, and you stand behind rock spamming LRMs at any spotted target.

If you are limited to only few however, you are forced to think twice before launching LRMs. LRMs require more skill and experience, your ability to move according to situation you find yourself in, and your ability to predict whether or not locked target has a chance to get into cover before LRM impact decides all. Gauss requires only aim. It is actually the most easiest weapon to use, thanks to its fast projectile it hits almost instantly (at 600m). Charge up mechanic is the only factor that keeps Gauss from recieving a title of the most easiest weapon to master in MWO.

So.... L2P


Yeah, pretty much. I remember how much the community whined about the Gauss charge up and we all eventually got over it. Took like 2 or 3 weeks to get the timing right and it was easy after that.

#42 Fleeb the Mad

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 08:04 PM

I'm afraid you'll find no solace here. The Gauss nerf was merited and long overdue.

It still makes a fine weapon for peek-a-boom type snipers. The change in fire rate doesn't affect much when moving into and out of cover. The fact it generates negligible heat, has generous range and can be volley fired without issues still makes it good. It is now, however, a more specialized sniper weapon and not the go-to ballistic for your everyday needs.

In long range engagements it still compares well to the few other options that are available - ER Large lasers, ER PPCs and LRMs. The fact there are actually advantages to taking other weapons implies that balance was served. Even there, the fact that lasers and PPCs are heat-limited means they will never be continuously fired as fast as they cool down like Gauss can be. Energy weapons may be capable of more burst fire, but I'd wager the Gauss is still the king of sustained long-range fire even with its longer cooldown.

It's still the only weapon that has a place in any heat-limited machine, because it still can be used at any range even if it's no longer efficient to do so in medium and close combat. The fact it may be out-DPSed at 500m might actually makes people plan how they employ their mechs. The Gauss through all of MWO up to this point has been such a good weapon over a very broad engagement range that people have forgotten what it means to have a weakness.

#43 Fastwind

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Posted 05 January 2016 - 10:53 PM

The gauss didn't rly need the nerf it's the lasers that need to be nerfed
The laser vomit is the op thing here,low weight no ammo good dpm easiest to aim weapon in the game,depending on build heat isn't even a real problem you still get the most dpm out of lasers
Gauss got major nerfs now 3 times
1st time was cooldown nerf because peopls were whinning about gauss ppc
2cnd time it got the charge mechanic,because peopls were whinning about gauss ppc,also dpm nerf but they finally gave it the higher velocity
than people started using uac5's with ppc's,finally pgi realized it was the ppc's and nerfed their velocity and heat (ghost heat system)
since jumpsniper still kept being a thing they also nerfed jump jets,and thats why people now started to use lasers en mass since you can't jump snipe as effective anymore you know can use weapons with long burntime
and guess what pgi does
3rd time NERF the GAUSS before you go to the thing that is realy responsible for the problem
LASERS

#44 gloowa

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Posted 07 January 2016 - 05:25 AM

View PostDrunk Canuck, on 05 January 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

Wrong, since you can only fire two at a time and they only do 15 points of damage each. 30 point alpha is nothing, we ate those for breakfast, lunch and dinner when the Highlander and Dragon Slayer came out.

And how exactly do you propose to enforce the only-two-at-a-time rule without charge-up? Please tell me. I'm super-duper interested.

#45 Delpheus Merideus

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Posted 07 January 2016 - 04:44 PM

View PostFastwind, on 05 January 2016 - 10:53 PM, said:

The gauss didn't rly need the nerf it's the lasers that need to be nerfed
The laser vomit is the op thing here,low weight no ammo good dpm easiest to aim weapon in the game,depending on build heat isn't even a real problem you still get the most dpm out of lasers
Gauss got major nerfs now 3 times
1st time was cooldown nerf because peopls were whinning about gauss ppc
2cnd time it got the charge mechanic,because peopls were whinning about gauss ppc,also dpm nerf but they finally gave it the higher velocity
than people started using uac5's with ppc's,finally pgi realized it was the ppc's and nerfed their velocity and heat (ghost heat system)
since jumpsniper still kept being a thing they also nerfed jump jets,and thats why people now started to use lasers en mass since you can't jump snipe as effective anymore you know can use weapons with long burntime
and guess what pgi does
3rd time NERF the GAUSS before you go to the thing that is realy responsible for the problem
LASERS


Thank you. Lasers at least require some skill to aim but they are extremely forgiving being a persistent beam. I still don't think that lasers are a problem, but now that guass is out lasers are even stronger. LRMS are far more broken than lasers. Nothing is more boring and annoying than someone sitting on their *** ten miles away spamming the only broken weapon in the game. LRMS needed a fix here. When is that going to happen?

#46 Azurhoden

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 07:11 PM

First of all lets gets one thing clear: god (and, NO, I will NOT capitalize that nonsense) and Reason have nothing to do with each other. Reason is couched in knowledge and opperated by logic (without one or the other your 'reason" will be faulty), god on the other hand, as representative of any number particular religeous traditions, is couched firmly in tradition, a situation that firmly states: do what everyone else has done since before you were born and do not question the autorities or we will punish you for it (Hmmm kinda like how PGI wants to punish players for playing their game in a manner they don't approve of).

Reason, therefore, is the opposite of god and religiosity. I take notice of your ignorance sir, and I am appalled. But more to the point: they (PGI) are looking to get their money fast and easy, thus they appeal to the lowest common denominator, like our godly friend there. Must be comforting to know you have such a large crowd at your back, huh (even if they are the lowest of the low)?

Further, its hardly a suprise, after all its just a matter of numbers: you have to get so many morons before you get a stupid person, you have to have a certain number of stupid people before you get an average person, so many average people before you can get a smart person... etc, on until you get to the Stephen Hawking level. And you will note that truely intelligent people don't play games like this because they have better things to do with their time (and yes I'm putting my self in that "unitelligent" catagory because until the recent patches I enjoyed this game, even when I was losing, so NOT very intelligent of ME).

The point is you can stop complaining because it will accomplish nothing. PGI is not listening because you are not singing their song (money money money, Money..... MONEY!!!). They will continue to pander to the LCD because that's where the MONEY is at, and it is just that simple.

#47 Azurhoden

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 08:11 PM

Second things second: LOL, wow MechB, you mean to tell me that you never learned how to "dummy fire" LRMs? Cuz ya know they will fall where ever you put the reticle.

Matter of fact that used to be the go-to way to use LRMs back in the day (Before MWO - and, OH! I know, anything BEFORE MWO doesn't count does it? Just forget all that history and evolution of the game, and no I'm NOT talking about the LORE of BattleTech) because EVERYONE ran ECM so you couldn't get a lock anyhow... And guess what, it may not be quite as effective here in MWO, but it still works. I mean I have made dudes cry about me "Cheating" doing that, but yeah LRMs are "harder" than a gaussrifle (PPPPFFFFFFTTTT, whatever).

But, see, that's not the point. Rather, it's about how, as a missler, half the work is done for you by other mechs closer to the front line, so that all you have to do is figure for high obstacles in your line of fire, where as with a Gauss Rifle, you have to have line of sight (or have a good enough idea where the target is at least so that you can "precharge" your weapon for poptarting or corner peek-a-boo or something like that).

Consequently the gauss rifle is MUCH harder to use than LRM's because half the time LRMers don't suffer any enemy fire to get their own shots off, while the gauss rifle requires the same kind of timing as a real gun (for the bullet strike, not the charge-up for the trigger pull). Nerfs aside, the gauss rifle is OP in the hands of a good rifleman, but most poeple barely know which end to point at the enemy, let alone how to work with the charge mechanic (which I personally had to struggle with until my wife told me to think of it like a Bow-and-Arrow mechanic, then it seemed to get easier, but it was still far and above harder to hit and kill consistantly with a gauss rifle than with LRMs).

And while you may see 1 second as 'nothing' the truth is that in a combat scenario one second is an eternity, because most things on the battle field happen in a matter of micro-seconds, and in that enternity of infinitesimals death comes a-marchin. So 1 second more is one second too many.

But then there are many OP (Meta) builds, that's kinda why they call them "Meta". So getting down on G-rifle users was just a way to make the game more "player friendly" for the STEAM noobs, rather than say, making certain weapons unlockable at certain teir levels so that new players don't get overwhelmed by the learning curve. That is a format from other games that could stand to be seen in MWO, but that would require PGI to put in work approaching the level of Blizzard in its earlier days, and, well, PGI just doesn't have those kind of balls.

LRMs are quite OP when you have a competent spotter, and even if you don't the rest of the team can do that job in a pinch... with a G-rifle you don't get that kind of help... mostly because snipers should only ever have one spotter with them so they can be head down on the weapon, while the spotter keeps eyes on the rest of the field. Their position should be away from the group so that they can get a crossfiring angle on the enemy givning them no where to "rest", no cover to hide behind. This game doesn't like snipers because they are "unfair" and that's where the learning curve is an injustice to the noobs, not the weapons. But LRMs are still far and above easier to use than a gauss rifle is, more so now that they have nerfed it so badly.

#48 Delpheus Merideus

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 10:14 PM

View PostAzurhoden, on 08 January 2016 - 08:11 PM, said:

Second things second: LOL, wow MechB, you mean to tell me that you never learned how to "dummy fire" LRMs? Cuz ya know they will fall where ever you put the reticle.

Matter of fact that used to be the go-to way to use LRMs back in the day (Before MWO - and, OH! I know, anything BEFORE MWO doesn't count does it? Just forget all that history and evolution of the game, and no I'm NOT talking about the LORE of BattleTech) because EVERYONE ran ECM so you couldn't get a lock anyhow... And guess what, it may not be quite as effective here in MWO, but it still works. I mean I have made dudes cry about me "Cheating" doing that, but yeah LRMs are "harder" than a gaussrifle (PPPPFFFFFFTTTT, whatever).

But, see, that's not the point. Rather, it's about how, as a missler, half the work is done for you by other mechs closer to the front line, so that all you have to do is figure for high obstacles in your line of fire, where as with a Gauss Rifle, you have to have line of sight (or have a good enough idea where the target is at least so that you can "precharge" your weapon for poptarting or corner peek-a-boo or something like that).

Consequently the gauss rifle is MUCH harder to use than LRM's because half the time LRMers don't suffer any enemy fire to get their own shots off, while the gauss rifle requires the same kind of timing as a real gun (for the bullet strike, not the charge-up for the trigger pull). Nerfs aside, the gauss rifle is OP in the hands of a good rifleman, but most poeple barely know which end to point at the enemy, let alone how to work with the charge mechanic (which I personally had to struggle with until my wife told me to think of it like a Bow-and-Arrow mechanic, then it seemed to get easier, but it was still far and above harder to hit and kill consistantly with a gauss rifle than with LRMs).

And while you may see 1 second as 'nothing' the truth is that in a combat scenario one second is an eternity, because most things on the battle field happen in a matter of micro-seconds, and in that enternity of infinitesimals death comes a-marchin. So 1 second more is one second too many.

But then there are many OP (Meta) builds, that's kinda why they call them "Meta". So getting down on G-rifle users was just a way to make the game more "player friendly" for the STEAM noobs, rather than say, making certain weapons unlockable at certain teir levels so that new players don't get overwhelmed by the learning curve. That is a format from other games that could stand to be seen in MWO, but that would require PGI to put in work approaching the level of Blizzard in its earlier days, and, well, PGI just doesn't have those kind of balls.

LRMs are quite OP when you have a competent spotter, and even if you don't the rest of the team can do that job in a pinch... with a G-rifle you don't get that kind of help... mostly because snipers should only ever have one spotter with them so they can be head down on the weapon, while the spotter keeps eyes on the rest of the field. Their position should be away from the group so that they can get a crossfiring angle on the enemy givning them no where to "rest", no cover to hide behind. This game doesn't like snipers because they are "unfair" and that's where the learning curve is an injustice to the noobs, not the weapons. But LRMs are still far and above easier to use than a gauss rifle is, more so now that they have nerfed it so badly.


That you for putting it so eloquently. It was music to my ears.

I expected to receive some negative comments for this post, but I wasn't prepared for someone to actually claim that LRMs took more skill than a direct fire weapon...it absolutely blew me away.

Every point you raised further describes this issue of imbalance. Most of all, the point of greed struck me as perhaps the real underlying problem. I never considered that, since from my perspective as a gamer I want a fun and fair game, but I suppose a company is indeed more concerned with money.

However, I had hopped this post would reveal that I am not alone in this argument, which I have proven, and I am still convinced there are more out there that have not spoken. It is likely that the anti-guass crowd may be the majority lowest common denominator that PGI seems to be catering to, which is very sad indeed, but understandable. They may lose me as a customer, but I guess that is the fate of competitive gamers as opposed to the unskilled newbs who want win buttons.

But I had to speak up and start a conversation about this in hopes that the guass rifle can still be saved. And I encourage everyone in favor of bringing back the guass rifle to speak up. I want to play MW online, not LRM online...

Bring back the guass rifle. Anyone with any sense understands the nerf is unacceptable.

Edited by Delpheus Merideus, 08 January 2016 - 10:17 PM.


#49 DJFrost

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 11:02 PM

View PostMechB Kotare, on 05 January 2016 - 04:05 PM, said:


It actually requires more skill than a simple first person shooter type of weapon like gauss is




that made me chuckle immensely, thank you.

Gauss was ruined with the change in cool down, it is known. uacs are better anyway.

#50 Delpheus Merideus

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Posted 08 January 2016 - 11:54 PM



#51 Delpheus Merideus

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 12:02 AM



Even when people troll with LRMs, they accidentally win...

#52 Cold Darkness

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 03:12 AM

funny how you do not post gauss videos for comparison. but i guess that would not aid your cause.

#53 Delpheus Merideus

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 03:00 PM

View PostCold Darkness, on 09 January 2016 - 03:12 AM, said:

funny how you do not post gauss videos for comparison. but i guess that would not aid your cause.


I did.

#54 Delpheus Merideus

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 03:09 PM

http://mwomercs.com/...the-gauss-nerf/

Check this out.
People who disapprove of the gauss nerf are the majority by about 11%.

#55 Fastwind

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 03:20 PM

View PostDelpheus Merideus, on 07 January 2016 - 04:44 PM, said:


Thank you. Lasers at least require some skill to aim but they are extremely forgiving being a persistent beam. I still don't think that lasers are a problem, but now that guass is out lasers are even stronger. LRMS are far more broken than lasers. Nothing is more boring and annoying than someone sitting on their *** ten miles away spamming the only broken weapon in the game. LRMS needed a fix here. When is that going to happen?

yea that's why no one ever brings lrm's in comp play right,they are so op that everyone just agreed to not bring lrm's,right?
lrm's are useless if you know to take cover
ecm can make lrm's pretty useless,you need like 5 tons of equipment to make lrm's work at their standard potential against ecm
lasers are the single most op weaponsystem
you load up a 1 ton weapon,you point at an enemy you click and you instant do 5 dmg,nothing easier than doing that!

#56 Astarot

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 03:21 PM

View PostAutobot9000, on 02 January 2016 - 08:22 PM, said:


That's first of all not true: Brawling existet since the start of the game.

Second of all pin point damage is a problem inherent to Doom1esque aiming circles, that require nothing but moving the reticule over the part where you want all your weapons to go down on. Without a more complex aiming system you can't complain that all the damage goes where the reticule aims. No weapon nerf will change that. I can aim with 6 MPLs on my Direwolf for an arm and cut it off, its simple.



Who says that? You?



Pray tell, what complicated aiming system did you have in mind? Call of duty style? Strategy style? World of tanks style where your rounds magically fly in random directions when you try to move and shoot at the same time? Tell me, what did you have in mind?

#57 Delpheus Merideus

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 03:25 PM

View PostFastwind, on 09 January 2016 - 03:20 PM, said:

yea that's why no one ever brings lrm's in comp play right,they are so op that everyone just agreed to not bring lrm's,right?
lrm's are useless if you know to take cover
ecm can make lrm's pretty useless,you need like 5 tons of equipment to make lrm's work at their standard potential against ecm
lasers are the single most op weaponsystem
you load up a 1 ton weapon,you point at an enemy you click and you instant do 5 dmg,nothing easier than doing that!


Gauss is useless if you know to take cover.
Lucky for you, LRMs can fire over cover!

You need 15 tons just to mount one, not including ammo.
A clam LRM 15 is 3.5 tons.

You can't rapid fire gauss. You have to wait 7 seconds between shots.
LRMs come down in rapid fire from people that spam 3 or 4 on chain fire.

#58 Delpheus Merideus

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 03:28 PM

http://mwomercs.com/...uss-rifle-nerf/

#59 Wolverine59

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Posted 09 January 2016 - 05:21 PM

I'm giving up on this weapon. Were asked to pay a premium in slots and tonnage to carry it and it's ammo, and what do we get? A "glass cannon" with a ridiculous charge time, extended cool down and less dps than a AC2. Its not worth that premium anymore. I'd rather take 3 erlarge and max my heatsinks or take AC's and load up on ammo.

#60 Delpheus Merideus

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Posted 10 January 2016 - 02:01 PM

View PostWolverine59, on 09 January 2016 - 05:21 PM, said:

I'm giving up on this weapon. Were asked to pay a premium in slots and tonnage to carry it and it's ammo, and what do we get? A "glass cannon" with a ridiculous charge time, extended cool down and less dps than a AC2. Its not worth that premium anymore. I'd rather take 3 erlarge and max my heatsinks or take AC's and load up on ammo.


Sadly, I gave up on it too...
I've been trying to make it work, but the new cooldown is a death sentence.

Also, side note for people complaining about velocity...
Shooting a gun isn't supposed to feel like chucking a football.
If anything, all ballistic weapons should have a velocity increase to be more realistic.





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