154 replies to this topic

[Duke Erik Rheinhardt]

Aline Peaks is a nice map to play.
It's not the maps fault, everybody equips for brawl and fights for the top of the hill.

I think on the contrary. The maps makes sure that at least SOME mechs are lights and at least SOME are long range and at least SOMETIMES the conquest mode is chosen (which goes great with Alpine Peaks and everybody hates it because they always play brawl).

I think PGI shouldn't cater to people who only want a "minigame" which means running all to one point and brawling it out.

MechWarrior is about tactics.
Long range, short range, heat management, cover, open plains, LRM's and Narc playing together, etc.
In short: we need as much diversity as we can get to make it interesting, as with a good trading card game. Everything else gets boring pretty quick.

Khaled

[MechanicalWraith]

Khaled nailed it. Alpine Peaks (when it is actually voted for) forces the mindless brawlers out of their narrow comfort zone, which is the single unspoken reason it's supposedly 'broken' to them, in my books, that alone is reason to keep it. PGI needs to get why most games don't simply remove content that's not actually buggy based on a bunch of whiny players who don't like variety. Also, should Alpine be removed, those same complainers will find the next largest map that allows "sniping cowards" to cry about.

[Void Angel]

TheCaptainJZ, on 03 January 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

Sorry, think that's wishful thinking on your part. They are going to remove Alpine in favor of this newly redesigned replacement. Sounds like it will offer some of the same long-range play while reducing the mountain issues (hope it's still hilly enough!) with more cover and crevices and such to move around the map without being exposed 1500+ m away with a clear line of sight the entire approach to the enemy (unless you like that kind of thing).

patataman, on 03 January 2016 - 03:22 AM, said:

I want you to be right about alpine being remade and rereleased. Really. But what Russ wrote doesn't give that impression to me. I'd be very happy to be wrong, because the map pool is quite small as it is, and deleting (aka storing it in a backup media) a map that is quite diferent to the rest of the maps would be a loss of variety.

What Russ wrote was that they are still taking the map out of rotation, just as they originally would have done after the rework. Any speculation on our part that they are no longer going to rework Alpine is just that - speculation.

[Void Angel]

Hassan Ali Khaled WHM6R, on 03 January 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

Aline Peaks is a nice map to play.
It's not the maps fault, everybody equips for brawl and fights for the top of the hill.

I think on the contrary. The maps makes sure that at least SOME mechs are lights and at least SOME are long range and at least SOMETIMES the conquest mode is chosen (which goes great with Alpine Peaks and everybody hates it because they always play brawl).

I think PGI shouldn't cater to people who only want a "minigame" which means running all to one point and brawling it out.

MechWarrior is about tactics.
Long range, short range, heat management, cover, open plains, LRM's and Narc playing together, etc.
In short: we need as much diversity as we can get to make it interesting, as with a good trading card game. Everything else gets boring pretty quick.

Khaled

MechanicalWraith, on 03 January 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

Khaled nailed it. Alpine Peaks (when it is actually voted for) forces the mindless brawlers out of their narrow comfort zone, which is the single unspoken reason it's supposedly 'broken' to them, in my books, that alone is reason to keep it. PGI needs to get why most games don't simply remove content that's not actually buggy based on a bunch of whiny players who don't like variety. Also, should Alpine be removed, those same complainers will find the next largest map that allows "sniping cowards" to cry about.

This is exactly the same reasoning people used to defend the poptart meta, and to justify the Light Rush in CW as "tactical gameplay" - and it's wrong for the same reasons. We already have maps with long sight lines, and which often devolve into long-range slugfests - the problem with Alpine is that it punishes you for not bringing long-range ballistics and LRMs. The huge open areas in the map - and the... asymmetrical difficulty of accessing certain terrain features - are what cause most players who complain about the map to do so. There's no counterplay! Whichever team happened to have more long-range builds has a distinct advantage, and that is a large part of what made the map the most-voted candidate for a rework.

There's also the fact that although the map is huge, most of it is unusable, even in Conquest. If you start on the low side, it's a fool's errand to try to flank around the sides of the central hill. The enemy can detect your movement from literally miles off, and simply re-orient themselves to shoot you - if you tried to flank to the high/left side (past the radio tower) you can't even get to the central hill without jump jets!

All of these factors went into the decision to have that map reworked.Making up stories about how "mindless brawlers" just want the map to change because they "hate variety" is asinine in its arrogance and imbecilic in its intelligence. Just a straw man and ad hominem argument rolled into one. In the real world where facts matter, there are good reasons to rework Alpine - and to keep this unique map in the game once it's fixed.

[Cementi]

Personally my dislike of Alpine is second only to Terra Therma......and both for the same reason.

Virtually every match goes to the exact same place.

So change the spawns and flatten out the big hill, or another suggestion posed by one of my unit mates would be to remove the flat section at the top so that you cannot have 12 mechs sitting up there.

Getting rid of a map to get another one does not make alot of sense and conquest on this map is actually quite fun.

I felt the same way when they "updated" forest colony. Honestly the old forest colony and new forest colony are really only recognizable as relations because of the ship in the water. As much as I sucked at the old forest colony it was different enough that it also should have been left in rotation. Maybe reduced frequency due to it's small size but still in.

Caustic was truly and update. The changes while fairly profound definatly were not enough to have two copies of it. Same with River City. I am happy with both of the changes on these maps and they do not need to have the old versions in.

Keep alpine, tweak it, and give us a new map (coming from a player that does not really like alpine).

[Void Angel]

PS: Part of the reason some people hate Conquest for similar reasons to why Alpine needed reworked - it rewards some 'mech specialties/builds more than others.

No, no, Cementi! It's not the map's fault! It's all those mindless brawlers who don't like variety! The key terrain features and design of the map has nothing to do with it!

[TheArisen]

patataman, on 03 January 2016 - 03:22 AM, said:

I want you to be right about alpine being remade and rereleased. Really. But what Russ wrote doesn't give that impression to me. I'd be very happy to be wrong, because the map pool is quite small as it is, and deleting (aka storing it in a backup media) a map that is quite diferent to the rest of the maps would be a loss of variety.

They're releasing a new map that's going to replace Alpine, it's called Polar... Something.

[B0oN]

Yes, keep Alpine Peaks !

[patataman]

TheArisen, on 03 January 2016 - 11:16 AM, said:

They're releasing a new map that's going to replace Alpine, it's called Polar... Something.

Yup, my point of view is "why not both?". It's called Polar Highlands. Or, as someone called it before during this weekend (sorry, i don't remember who, but i had a good laugh with the name): "Bipolar Highlands" I think it is going to stick...

[patataman]

Void Angel, on 03 January 2016 - 10:26 AM, said:

What Russ wrote was that they are still taking the map out of rotation, just as they originally would have done after the rework. Any speculation on our part that they are no longer going to rework Alpine is just that - speculation.

(Copied from the January roadmap)
· New Public Queue map: Polar Highlands - We are introducing a brand new map to MWO and a very big one at that. Originally we set out to do a modernization pass on Alpine Peaks but during that design process we came to the conclusion that it was easier and would produce better results if we just started from scratch with a brand new design. So this is not a "New Alpine Peaks" but a brand new map. It takes more of an old school twist in being more of an even elevation throughout with some shallow trenches and larger rocks for cover. We are hopeful that this will introduce an interesting and all new style of game play to MWO. At this point I believe the plan is to still remove Alpine Peaks from rotation, I know some players enjoy it but in general it was just such an unfair map.

What i understand from the roadmap is:
1 - Brand new map called "Polar Highlands".
2 - Russ thinks (but he's not 100 % sure) that they are going to remove Alpine Peaks from the rotation, because it's considered an unfair map.

Everything else is speculation, yes.

[Fractis Zero]

I think they should never take any map out of rotation. Variety is the spice of life, even if that spice tastes awful! I would love to see old Forest Colony and River City... why not? And with map voting people will only see the bad maps occasionally if they don't want it!

[Void Angel]

patataman, on 03 January 2016 - 12:25 PM, said:

(Copied from the January roadmap)
· New Public Queue map: Polar Highlands - We are introducing a brand new map to MWO and a very big one at that. Originally we set out to do a modernization pass on Alpine Peaks but during that design process we came to the conclusion that it was easier and would produce better results if we just started from scratch with a brand new design. So this is not a "New Alpine Peaks" but a brand new map. It takes more of an old school twist in being more of an even elevation throughout with some shallow trenches and larger rocks for cover. We are hopeful that this will introduce an interesting and all new style of game play to MWO. At this point I believe the plan is to still remove Alpine Peaks from rotation, I know some players enjoy it but in general it was just such an unfair map.

What i understand from the roadmap is:
1 - Brand new map called "Polar Highlands".
2 - Russ thinks (but he's not 100 % sure) that they are going to remove Alpine Peaks from the rotation, because it's considered an unfair map.

Everything else is speculation, yes.

Including the assertion that Alpine Peaks is permanently gone.

[Wildstreak]

Fractis Zero, on 03 January 2016 - 01:08 PM, said:

I think they should never take any map out of rotation. Variety is the spice of life, even if that spice tastes awful! I would love to see old Forest Colony and River City... why not? And with map voting people will only see the bad maps occasionally if they don't want it!

That's funny given how often I see Frozen City.
Plus you have to realize not everyone shares the same opinion of what is a bad map so the votes don't go the way you assume.

[Peter von Schleier]

If you dont play conquest, Alpine is always the same.

[Tripzter]

If they want to remove a map it should be the Viridian Bog that should be removed. The map is garbage.. plagued with invisible walls from corner to corner.

[Wildstreak]

Tripzter, on 03 January 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

If they want to remove a map it should be the Viridian Bog that should be removed. The map is garbage.. plagued with invisible walls from corner to corner.

It is getting a makeover.

Quote

· Breakable trees and roots in Viridian Bog – Due to the extra effort of our level artist we have made an initial round of improvements to Viridian Bog. These should be considered a first phase as we continue to improve the levels collision and play-ability.

[patataman]

Void Angel, on 03 January 2016 - 02:55 PM, said:

Including the assertion that Alpine Peaks is permanently gone.

And the part where it is going to be restored later

[Prof RJ Gumby]

I hope it stays in one form or the other. At least for 4x4? Could be interesting.

[DONTOR]

with the original spawns the map didnt quite play out the way it does currently with candy mountain, although i usually played conquest on it. Still change the spawns drastically, that could do the trick.

[Darth Hotz]

+1 for Alpine

I never understood the Alpine haters. I love the map. Conquest can bring great matches with a lot of movement and assault/conquest can also be full of surprises. Only thing that needs a change on Alpine is the spawn points for assaults.

And there is one major pro argument for Alpine: You can see something!