57 replies to this topic

[Aresye]

Captain Stiffy, on 01 January 2016 - 06:04 PM, said:

I like the change definitely will make it easier for nubs.

What makes it easier for nubs also makes it easier for comp tryhards.

Dingo Red, on 01 January 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

I have no idea how this breaks immersion in the slightest. If anything it makes more sense, though we'll have to see how it looks before we judge.

Laser beams get larger with distance, just like any other light source.

A laser powerful enough to cause real physical damage is not going to "suddenly stop" when it goes beyond the distance it ceases to do anymore physical damage.

I was one of very few enlisted personnel at my helicopter squadron that was qualified as a LSO (laser safety officer), in order to conduct annual laser safety briefings in regards to the class 4 and class 3b lasers we utilized.

An acronym worth pointing out:
Nominal Ocular Hazard Distance (NOHD) - The distance at which a laser will no longer cause damage to the unaided eye.

The NOHD of any high powered laser is not the max range of that laser. Our class 4 targeting laser's effective range was well beyond the NOHD for the purposes of illuminating targets.

A weaponized laser built to do physical damage would have a NOHD far beyond it's maximum damage range, with the laser itself extending far beyond the NOHD.

Perhaps "immersion" wasn't the best of words. Yes I know weaponized lasers would generally be completely invisible to the naked eye, but I enjoyed the fact that the lasers we have extended beyond their max. damaging range. I enjoy the fact that lasers look like they're larger and appear to cover a larger portion of the mech at long distances, even though from the enemy's perspective it's not any bigger. It's pseudo-propogation from the cockpit's perspective, which makes me feel like I'm actually using...you know...lasers.

Ultimatum X, on 01 January 2016 - 06:21 PM, said:

Players start using R_glow.

Other players have a hissy fit about a .cfg option.

PGI locks R_glow.

PGI then basically adds elements of R_glow back into the game for all lasers.

And one of the main reasons a large portion of players (including myself) didn't hop on the r_glow bandwagon was because the lasers looked like complete and utter s***.

Ted Wayz, on 01 January 2016 - 10:05 PM, said:

Nubs will still fire them outside of their range. Just like they do with all weapons. And of course with IS missiles they fire them inside of their arming distance. It is their way of saying, "Don't count on me, I'm currently a liability".

They will learn.

Why not a weapon interlock, or similar system that actually ADDS more realism and immersion? Perhaps something like the shutdown override? A system that prevents players from firing lasers outside their 0 damage range, prevents shooting PPCs within their minimum range, and prevents shooting LRMs inside their minimum range. That would actually help newbies, by not punishing them with unneeded heat or ammo consumption. Players can manually disengage the interlock if they wish to put on a laser light show, or perhaps as a way of scaring off a long distance sniper by making them think they're within range when they're not.

Edited by Aresye Kerensky, 01 January 2016 - 10:18 PM.

[adamts01]

Aresye Kerensky, on 01 January 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

Why not a weapon interlock, or similar system that actually ADDS more realism and immersion? Perhaps something like the shutdown override? A system that prevents players from firing lasers outside their 0 damage range, prevents shooting PPCs within their minimum range, and prevents shooting LRMs inside their minimum range. That would actually help newbies, by not punishing them with unneeded heat or ammo consumption. Players can manually disengage the interlock if they wish to put on a laser light show, or perhaps as a way of scaring off a long distance sniper by making them think they're within range when they're not.

Awesome real life experience, thanks for sharing. I frequently fire lasers WAY outside max range to mark targets. It's funny too. There might be 3 of us left against a light on Alpine. I usually run jump-jets so I'll post up on a mountain and scout. I'll say on voip and chat I'm marking the target for the others to see, then get a wall of hate and an earful of anger at my noobish gunnery. Oh well... pugs....

[Ultimax]

Aresye Kerensky, on 01 January 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

And one of the main reasons a large portion of players (including myself) didn't hop on the r_glow bandwagon was because the lasers looked like complete and utter s***.

Yeah I wasn't crazy about it either.

On a positive note, I doubt what PGI has planned will be that strong of a removal of the beam.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 01 January 2016 - 11:35 PM.

[Clint Steel]

Yeah, going to a point does seem like the opposite of what should happen. I would have had the beam get wider and more translucent the further out it went, to the point that it eventually faded out completely.

Would be even better if the beam actually spread its damage across the wider beam at the end of its range, giving it less pinpoint damage at extreme ranges.

Edited by Clint Steel, 01 January 2016 - 11:37 PM.

[TLBFestus]

Dingo Red, on 01 January 2016 - 06:16 PM, said:

I have no idea how this breaks immersion in the slightest. If anything it makes more sense, though we'll have to see how it looks before we judge.

Actually, it makes no sense. Realistically the beams would attenuate, or spread wider as debris in their path reduce their efficiency and spread the beam.

Not that I care, it's a robot game.

[Nighthog]

How would it be if atmosphere degraded lasers faster and in vacuum outerspace they have almost infinite range

[Tarogato]

I would think it would be more immersive, personally. Lasers should get harder to see at larger distances, and having the beam shrink to nothing at least simulates this better than just "block of light until nothing".

[Kushko]

Its a game with giant robots...what part of that makes you think we should have a realistic depiction of how laser beams act with increased range.

Also if you are going to nitpick on how we see the beams in game, id just like to add that any laser that transfers enough energy to do any damage would not be anywhere near the visible light spectrum (for the human eye that is). You could say the HUD filters the light and shows us the laser beam but if you go that way you could just as well say the HUD depicts a representation of the damage falloff as the narrowing of the beam (not a representation of the beam itself). You could say that the depiction is that of the laser beam intensity instead of its actual beam width.

Edited by Kushko, 02 January 2016 - 02:25 AM.

[GreyNovember]

Wait. Wouldn't a needle. Imply it's more accurate? With less surface area to disperse the heat?

Shouldn't it be bloomy more as distance increases?

Wait. Wouldn't a needle. Imply it's more accurate? With less surface area to disperse the heat?

Shouldn't it be bloomy more as distance increases?

[AssaultPig]

it's always really funny when people tell you they absolutely know how the totally fictitious/impossible weapon system mounted on the fictitious/impossible vehicle would really work

immersion doesn't come from 'realism'; there's nothing remotely 'realistic' about mech combat. Immersion comes from consistency, and nothing about this change breaks consistency in a world where lasers 1) are direct fire weapons 2) are color coded and 3) make pew pew noises.

Edited by AssaultPig, 02 January 2016 - 03:56 AM.

[Monkey Lover]

I got to say I don't think this is true. It sounds like a good idea And will help a lot of new people.

[Monkey Lover]

GreyNovember, on 02 January 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

Wait. Wouldn't a needle. Imply it's more accurate? With less surface area to disperse the heat?

Shouldn't it be bloomy more as distance increases?

Wait. Wouldn't a needle. Imply it's more accurate? With less surface area to disperse the heat?

Shouldn't it be bloomy more as distance increases?

the needle by the sounds of it will get more transparent at the end. This should show the decrease power. The focus point or the sharp end would be at.the max range so sounds about right. You would only see a bloomy effect if it was focused closer up and didn't hit.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 02 January 2016 - 08:16 AM.

[Coolant]

Love when players predict before ever seeing it beforehand.

[Barantor]

Coolant, on 02 January 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

Love when players predict before ever seeing it beforehand.

Shadowhawk is DOA..... lol

[Johny Rocket]

Killin my fun, no more lulz hitting a guy 1k out with ml and watching him bail for cover.

[Ultimax]

Coolant, on 02 January 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

Love when players predict before ever seeing it beforehand.

I love all the players saying they are in favor of this, when some of them were the same players losing their collective **** over R_glow because it was "cheating".


To be clear, I didn't care about R_glow and didn't use it, I just detest hypocrites.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 02 January 2016 - 12:08 PM.

[Escef]

Aresye Kerensky, on 01 January 2016 - 10:14 PM, said:

Laser beams get larger with distance, just like any other light source.

But what would it look like as the beam loses cohesion? Would it look like it fans out and dissipates, would its intensity simply fade (without actually knowing, this would be my expectation), or would the beam appear to narrow away until it simply ceases to be discernible? Assuming, of course, that we are dealing with a beam that is visible to begin with; which is a necessary conceit given the context.

[The Image]

Escef, on 02 January 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

But what would it look like as the beam loses cohesion? Would it look like it fans out and dissipates, would its intensity simply fade (without actually knowing, this would be my expectation), or would the beam appear to narrow away until it simply ceases to be discernible? Assuming, of course, that we are dealing with a beam that is visible to begin with; which is a necessary conceit given the context.

IRL a laser beam disperses so, yes, IRL beams get bigger, wider, and I believe 'inverse square laws' apply suggesting that the power of the beam is inversely proportional to the square of the distance from origination.

So the lasers cone-beam should get wider and dimmer as the distance progresses.

Again, ASSUMING, we're not talking about current IRL laser beams which, the most dangerous are actually invisible to the naked eye...

[wanderer]

Escef, on 01 January 2016 - 07:06 PM, said:

It's not necessarily realistic to even see lasers at all.

TAG is especially hilarious in MWO due to this. I mean, an indicator that you're being painted is one thing, but honestly TAG should only be visible in heat vision mode, much like the infrared beams they use in laser tag pistols.

[Khobai]

Quote

But what would it look like as the beam loses cohesion?

Been a while since I took physics, but if I recall lasers are considered a point source and follow the inverse square law (beam intensity decreases with the inverse square of the distance). So it should look like this.

Edited by Khobai, 02 January 2016 - 12:47 PM.