20 replies to this topic

[Hexenhammer]

For those that use LRMs what is a good hit rate? 10%, 20%, 30%, 40%?

Aside from your stats what are you using? IS or clan, artemis? TAG, NARC? Maybe even BAP?


My stats.
LRM 10 + ARTEMIS.....: 29.20%
LRM 15 + ARTEMIS.....: 31.96%
C-LRM 15 + ARTEMIS.: 28.98%
C-LRM 20 + ARTEMIS.: 27.91%

Edited by Hexenhammer, 03 January 2016 - 09:13 PM.

[Leone]

75% is my preferred hit rate in a match, and of course, I aim for higher. I try to stay 200~400m away an tag my targets whilest they panic and run.

~Leone.

[Wintersdark]

Leone, on 03 January 2016 - 09:56 PM, said:

75% is my preferred hit rate in a match, and of course, I aim for higher. I try to stay 200~400m away an tag my targets whilest they panic and run.

~Leone.

With LRM's? He's not asking how often you get red cursor flashes, he's asking actual accuracy stat numbers. Plz post your actual numbers - I bet you've not looked.

I don't know anyone with >50%. Nobody.

30% accuracy rate is pretty average. 40% for people who use them well.

But 75%? Unless you never ever encounter AMS, never fire at small mechs, etc, that's just not going to happen.

[Wintersdark]

To put this another way.

I have a 69% accuracy rating with streaks.

[Tarogato]

Do not ever use weapon stats as a performance metric.

Weapon stats are horribly broken and inconsistent. I found this out when I tried to start up a spreadsheet in my unit that tracked all of our weapon stats. Until PGI fixes them, they are useless.

If you want to track your LRM performance, note how much ammo you expended every round and how much damage you did in the end. If you loaded 1000 rounds of LRM ammo, had 450 left when you died, and did 200 damage, then you have a 35% hit rate.

Something else you can do is divide damage dealt by damage potential. If you loaded 1000 rounds of ammo and you did 200 damage, you only managed 20% of your potential damage. This goes for any ammo-based load, including SRMs and ballistics. Compare your damage/potential ratio between builds and weapon systems and see what performs best (hint: it's not LRMs).

Edited by Tarogato, 04 January 2016 - 12:11 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Here, I'll share my actual screenshotted LRM stats, just so we're on the same page.

I'm T2, as can be seen. I run LRM's fairly frequently, and despite being T2 do fairly well with them.






With a bit of time in Google Sheets, I got this for overall stats:

Overall: 361 444,765 151,090 33.97% 7:05:00 154,041
IS Overall: 125 161,940 55,590 34.33% 11:44:09 58,609
Clan Overall: 236 282,825 95,500 33.77% 19:20:51 95,432
IS w/o Artemis: 75 129,060 44,011 34.10% 6:46:25 45,635
IS w/ Artemis: 50 32,880 11579 35.22% 4:57:44 12974
Clan w/o Artemis: 131 169,931 53,827 31.68% 11:09:41 53,982
Clan w/ Artemis: 105 112894 41673 36.91% 8:11:10 41450

Edited by Wintersdark, 04 January 2016 - 12:18 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Tarogato, on 04 January 2016 - 12:05 AM, said:

Do not ever use weapon stats as a performance metric.

Weapon stats are horribly broken and inconsistent. I found this out when I tried to start up a spreadsheet in my unit that tracked all of our weapon stats. Until PGI fixes them, they are useless.

If you want to track your LRM performance, note how much ammo you expended every round and how much damage you did in the end. If you loaded 1000 rounds of LRM ammo, had 450 left when you died, and did 200 damage, then you have a 35% hit rate.

Something else you can do is divide damage dealt by damage potential. If you loaded 1000 rounds of ammo and you did 200 damage, you only managed 20% of your potential damage. This goes for any ammo-based load, including SRMs and ballistics. Compare your damage/potential ratio between builds and weapon systems and see what performs best (hint: it's not LRMs).

The above is totally useless for any kind of practical application, it'd only work if you ONLY used LRM's.

What do you feel is wrong with the weapon stats, though? I understand the pitfalls: Lasers "hit" for accuracy if even one tick registers damage, LRM's count per-missile, not sure if cUAC's count per shell, or per burst (as per missiles or lasers, basically).

In any kind of reasonable build where you've got LRM's (that is, they are NOT the only weapon, because that's pants-on-head stupid, you'd never be able to figure it out this way.

---

But per missile is a good way to go with LRM's, as it shows how few LRM's actually hit their targets (and why LRM's are such poor weapons overall).

[Rogue Jedi]

Tarogetto is correct, the stats can be misleading,

I have 78.66% accuracy with the Medium Laser I have fired it 24,724 times, an ML can do 5 damage per shot but I have "only" done done 45500 damage with it, so I have done 36.8% of the maximum potential damage from the Medium Laser based on the weapons stats, however the stats page shows 78% meaning I am usualy hitting but when I hit I am doing about 2.3 damage, or a bit under half the potential damage

[Wintersdark]

Rogue Jedi, on 04 January 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

Tarogetto is correct, the stats can be misleading,

I have 78.66% accuracy with the Medium Laser I have fired it 24,724 times, an ML can do 5 damage per shot but I have "only" done done 45500 damage with it, so I have done 36.8% of the maximum potential damage from the Medium Laser based on the weapons stats, however the stats page shows 78% meaning I am usualy hitting but when I hit I am doing about 2.3 damage, or a bit under half the potential damage

This is to be expected.

Lasers "hit" if only one tick does damage - a miniscule amount. Likewise, hitting at > optimal range does less damage too.

It's not like a Medium laser actually does it's full 5 damage very often in practice.

Compare, if you will (if you run Clan and IS mechs) what your Clan ERLL effective damage is vs. an IS LPL, for example. The long duration on the cERLL results in a tremendous inefficiency in actually applying damage.

[Tarogato]

Wintersdark, on 04 January 2016 - 12:29 AM, said:

This is to be expected.

Lasers "hit" if only one tick does damage - a miniscule amount. Likewise, hitting at > optimal range does less damage too.

It's not like a Medium laser actually does it's full 5 damage very often in practice.

Compare, if you will (if you run Clan and IS mechs) what your Clan ERLL effective damage is vs. an IS LPL, for example. The long duration on the cERLL results in a tremendous inefficiency in actually applying damage.

Rogue Jedi, on 04 January 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

Tarogetto is correct, the stats can be misleading,

I have 78.66% accuracy with the Medium Laser I have fired it 24,724 times, an ML can do 5 damage per shot but I have "only" done done 45500 damage with it, so I have done 36.8% of the maximum potential damage from the Medium Laser based on the weapons stats, however the stats page shows 78% meaning I am usualy hitting but when I hit I am doing about 2.3 damage, or a bit under half the potential damage

It's not even that. It's that the weapon stats are just plain inaccurate and wrong.

For instance, I've had 94 matches in my LCT-3S, which has always and forever had 3x SRM2 or 4x SRM2 on it. On my weapon stats page, it says I've played SRM2 in only 40 matches.

Another example: my Huginn has always had SRM4 equipped, I've done over 63,000 damage in my Huginn over 190 matches. Yet my SRM4 stats say 43,000 damage in only 164 matches (I've equipped plain SRM4's on other mechs, too... )

And another: it says I've hit with my IS gauss rifle 1,249 times. I've dealt 19,247 damage with my IS gauss, which means that I'm dealing 15.41 damage per shot, which is more damage than gauss is capable of and critical hits to internal equipment aren't counted toward damage. Same thing with my Clan gauss - 15.47 damage per hit, which is impossible.

Some people in my unit also have accuracy percentages that read over 100%. The weapon stats page simply can't be trusted, not a single part of it. In my experience, however, I've found the mech stats page to be very accurate.

Edited by Tarogato, 04 January 2016 - 02:35 AM.

[Soviet Alex]

To answer Hexenhammer's original question, don't worry about the overall stats, because LRMs are highly situational. In a PUG battle where nobody presses R, your damage will be a lot lower than when you're running in a team with voice comms. Anyone looking to recruit a missile player should understand this. Having said that, using LRM-15 with Artemis instead of LRM-20 has upped my missile damage per game.

[MrJeffers]

Tarogato, on 04 January 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

And another: it says I've hit with my IS gauss rifle 1,249 times. I've dealt 19,247 damage with my IS gauss, which means that I'm dealing 15.41 damage per shot, which is more damage than gauss is capable of and critical hits to internal equipment aren't counted toward damage. Same thing with my Clan gauss - 15.47 damage per hit, which is impossible.

You are incorrect about the above part. Critical hits, component destruction (e.g. weapon/heat sink/etc), and ammo explosion damage do all apply to your stats, and means that tracking ammo and damage in game is just as inaccurate to determine hit rate. I've have ballistic only mechs with 800 damage possible from ammo do up to 1200 damage in a match.

But you are correct in that the numbers are inconsistently recorded. But given enough matches the consistency of the dropped data still means it can be a useful metric.

[Khereg]

Since I get about 25% - 35%, I'm going to say at least 40%.

(not a consistent LRM user)

Tarogato's right about inconsistencies on the weapons stats pages, but for LRM hit rates, the shots fired and damage dealt numbers are probably close enough to give a reasonable estimate.

I think at least part of the issue is that all games aren't captured or stats are flushed after a certain period of time.

One example from my page is clan Streak SRM-6's. When the Arctic Cheetah came out for c-bills (not that long ago), I had a blast running my streak crow for about 2 weeks straight (oh the lulz were many on those days, let me tell you). On my stats page it says I've played only 27 matches with those streaks. Clearly not a complete set of data...

Edited by Khereg, 04 January 2016 - 12:35 PM.

[TheCaptainJZ]

PGI has at some point confirmed that there are bugs in the stats data so it's not 100% accurate. I stopped looking at it, but it's still useful for getting a general trend I bet.

30-35% accuracy with LRMs is consistent with my experience as well so I think we can say that's an average amount for a pilot.

[SnagaDance]

I like using Lrm's and consider myself a good missile mech user. Which means I'm usually 300-500 meter from the front lines, most often get my own locks (though I do not shirk from supporting a team mate through indirect fire support when I know through map knowledge that the lock is likely to be stable), and am not afraid to wade in with medium support lasers blazing when its necessary to have my armour absorb enemy fire.

I also use Lrm's to suppress enemy mechs. Even with the mostly 'wasted' missiles from my suppressive fire my to hit percentages with the Lrm 10 and Lrm 15 (by far my favorite launchers) are respectively 42.56% and 40.18%.

So that would be an excellent percentage to strive for I'd (completely non-humbly ) say

[Barkem Squirrel]

I say 40% hit rate is a good rate.

What affects this.

• AMS
  
• fire just to hold them in one area even if you are hitting buildings.
  
• firing indirect fire
  
• one of their ECM mechs just walks by either you or the target.
  
• Little F*&#$$#$# mechs in water (yep this does make a difference)

Now Artemis and TAG together really affects this number. Narc also.

I have a few LRM sizes that are over 40% and a few below, but getting 50% for a total average would be hard, very hard.

I have only had a few matchs in LRM boats with no back up weapons where I did more damage than I had LRMs. Those were due to well placed Arty strikes. That is since LRMs did only 1 point of damage. In one match it is very hard to get 75% hit rate, but that can be done, just not often. For me a good match where I fire 8 tons of LRMs I can do well over 800 and sometimes 1000 damage. So a very good game you are only hitting 50 to 70% of the missiles fired.

To me it seems IS LRMs are better for damage, but clan LRMs can get more kills. As for percentages LRM 20's have my lowest hit rates. Normally Artemis is a lower hit rate for some reason. All I know is that if I get damage equal to 50% of my LRMs I had a good match. Some times 75%, but those are very rare. Over 100% has only been 4 times. Once a long time ago in an oxide (756 damage with 720 LRMs) and three times in the last month with a kintaro, shadow hawk and wolverine. Clan mechs I have a hard time getting damage equal to 50% of the number of LRMs I carry.

Edited by Barkem Squirrel, 05 January 2016 - 12:42 PM.

[Takashi Uchida]

If my reticle turns red: yay!
If my reticle does not turn red: boo!

If I'm in a assault mech using LRMs (I don't care if it's "frowned upon," I'm in a--hole) I usually am not getting my own locks. I'm getting better at judging if a lock is gonna hold though, I used to just fire whenever I got a lock, which might give a "incoming missile" warning to the enemy (which might be strategically useful, I don't know though because if the lock is broken it's not uncommon that they've entered cover already) but ultimately results in no damage and wasted ammo.

It can be a crapshoot in solo pug if you don't have a dedicated spotter. Plus, you might just get unlucky and go against a team where half their guys have ECM.

[Hexenhammer]

Some thought provoking responses and interesting facts about weapon stats. Thanks all!

[Hawk_eye]

I agree with those who say that stats are broken.
According to my stats, I have used an LRM-5 launcher (which is the one I use most, since I usually use LRMs as a supporting weapon) only in a single game - but I launched nearly 10.5k missiles in that game and dealt nearly 4500 damage with them

Note: The "Fired" and "Damage" numbers feel kinda right

Note2: My hit percentage is
LRM-5: 41%
LRM-10: 35%
LRM-15: 38%

Note3: I´m far from a "professional" LRM user, but I am using pretty much only mediums (Griffin 2N and Shadow Hawk 2K with LLs as main weapons and LRMs for support) with LRMs and am usually pretty close to the enemy (300 to 400 meters, preferably right behind my "battle line")

[Serpentbane]

Stats are indicators at best, same goes for K/D and damage. They don’t say anything about how good you actually are. You can deal a shitload of damage, and get no kills. You can get kills by doing little damage. Doing a shitload of damage could mean you have bad aim or shoot in the wrong places, getting kills with little damage could mean you wait for others to damage enemy mechs, and then finish them off. AKA kill steal.

On the other hand you could also be a great suppressor, have huge nuber of assists a superior sniper, or you play on a good team, sticking together, having many mechs shoot at the same target, and get kills (not kill stealing). And so on.

With LRM your accuracy do count, but the stats is not important. Shooting from 1000m with huge volleys hitting very little is no good. Having LRM 5 streamer on the other hand you could take the role as suppressor, ticking of missile warnings and forcing enemies to cover, making it rain if they engage in open combat with friendlies.

As a good LRM’er you need to be very aware on the situation. Not only going for damage and kill, but helping mechs that are engaged away from the main force as the one able to respond before everyone else, due to your range.
It also depends if you’re using LRM as backup weapon, or if you’re using it as primary, or boating.

I tend to stay with the main force, taking shots from 180 to 400m. Use Tag if you can. Especially if you’re running LRM 15-20s firing larger volleys and have less ammo. If you LRM stream you can keep the stream running as long as you have target. Shift targets to a new one as you loose lock. This is a valid option if you run several LRM5s and have like 2000 ammo. Both these methods are valid methods of LRMing, but depending on the match, you might not get high accuracy or damage all the time. This do not make your efforts useless, you prevented the enemy from moving freely giving the team an advantage.

Running LRM boat, “everyone” will hate you. If you do well the other team will call you LRM noob, as well as your own team. If you do 1000+ damage, are the last one standing, and are unable to take the last three enemy mechs in close range, your team will point out how useless you and your LRMs are, how you should bring more close range weapons, and how your damage really don’t count as it’s not real damage for some reason. They forget that this is 1000+ armor they don’t have to remove themselves. That they should have been able to make use of those soft enemy targets. They forget to make use of your role, refuse to lock, all because they don’t like you.

Some matches are hard with lots of ECM, perhaps even AMS if you go up against more experienced players, paired with little help from your team, and you could end up with little to no damage and a huge rant from you team. This sometimes happens, that’s life. However, on average, if you boat, you should at least push 400+ dmg to call yourself an effective LRM’er. 600+ damage is a good match. With growing numbers of ECM mechs, LRM’ing is getting harder every day. I used to run 1000-1200 dmg matches pretty often, but lately I’m down at the 600 mark on most good matches.

And, use LRM and targeting modules, really consider ARTEMIS, especially if you use larger pods.

Just don’t stay at the 1000m line all the time with no clue what you shoot at. And if you fall back and get ambushed, don’t ***** about how ppl are not helping you.