26 replies to this topic

[nitra]

This player (not me) believes in mech preservation, why engage the enemy when they can let the rest of the team do it for them ? I regularly see players engaging in this behavior. they are not bad players . but they often contribute very little to the battle this pic being case in point .

one group engaging and doing good damage to the other team while the other group plinks away at the enemy (im guilty in this match) but we did move to engage the enemy and try to hammer them back with some non meaningful results. while the other group essentially does nothing.

Unfortunately (because my damage would have been a lot higher)i did not die early enough in battle to watch this or the others but from previous experience i can bet they were either facing a wall or not in any position to engage the enemy.

There is a disparity between ideologies when it comes to playing this game. and it needs to be resolved. This is not the old argument against campers. as other fps games, campers usually provide some sort of aid to the game. this game is different though, we need players actively engaging the enemy. if you want to camp so be it, but please shoot the enemy ... dont keep your weapons "off the field". every bit of damage helps if you rush at least hammer something ... if you hide behind a wall or hill, hammer something. please do some damage.

too many games im seeing players actively choosing not to engage the enemy. giving way to advancement or worse larger concentrations of incoming fire ..

so please actively engage the enemy shoot them 4 or 5 times at least hopefully more. im not asking for zerg tactics im just asking for engagement and return fire... is that really to much to ask for?

Edited by nitra, 05 January 2016 - 06:56 PM.

[Deathlike]

Lots of "self-preservation" trades are usually pretty bad.. in the sense that the players attempting this do not understand what are good trades.

The simple 2v1 (a double team) is a very simple concept, but when your teammate is too scared to help you out (especially when nothing else is around), you aren't getting the proper support.

Conversely, a squirrel run (where you get more than 2 players to chase one target to the ends of the earth) can produce lopsided results where the cost in chasing just one mech outweighs the created imbalance in team sizes when the actual fight starts (causing a 11v9 situation or variations of it).

This is a lot to do with player intelligence (and to a lesser extent, player confidence, when you're a new player) and sometimes people forget what is more important at the time when it is needed most.

[El Bandito]

Since I put my shots where I aimed at and keep it steady better than half the CW players I witnessed, naturally they should be tanking damage while I dish out the damage.

On a more serious note, presenting multiple bodies confuse most of the enemies and make them freeze up, and/or throw off their aims.

Edited by El Bandito, 05 January 2016 - 07:43 PM.

[N0MAD]

Actually you see this in many games due to people wanting to pad stats especially K/D, in most pug games W/L means little as RNG really determines W/L so people dont really care about W/L as it can be blamed on RNG, but K/D is to them, important.
Hang out the back relatively safe making some safe shots, then run in with an undamaged vehicle and clean up.

[Bonger Bob]

ok, ill bite, howdafuk did he make it to end of round without being nuked ?!?!? in a CPLT of all things, WTF ?!?!?

easy fix for the K/D preservation issue, make it so EVERY drop counts as a death, unless you scored at least 1 kill or 4 kill assists.

Solved.

[Aresye]

Bonger Bob, on 05 January 2016 - 08:02 PM, said:

easy fix for the K/D preservation issue, make it so EVERY drop counts as a death, unless you scored at least 1 kill or 4 kill assists.

Solved.

That may solve the camping problem but would introduce a dozen new problems.

[jaxjace]

Deathlike, on 05 January 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

This is a lot to do with player intelligence (and to a lesser extent, player confidence, when you're a new player) and sometimes people forget what is more important at the time when it is needed most.

The kicker, is there are ALOT of unintelligent players in this game, many refuse to adapt, think their way is the best way, and are perfectly okay with the skill level they are at.

The disparity is between the casual, and the player who wants to win, actively. As with everything, the side that wants it more tends to get it.

W/L does matter in my opinion, I play this game to win at killing mechs with my mechs.

[Ghogiel]

N0MAD, on 05 January 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

Actually you see this in many games due to people wanting to pad stats especially K/D, in most pug games W/L means little as RNG really determines W/L so people dont really care about W/L as it can be blamed on RNG, but K/D is to them, important.
Hang out the back relatively safe making some safe shots, then run in with an undamaged vehicle and clean up.

You can't maintain a high KDR without a decent W/L though, since a loss is almost always a death. Further more a higher KDR correlates to a higher W/L.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

nitra, on 05 January 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

This player (not me) believes in mech preservation, why engage the enemy when they can let the rest of the team do it for them ? I regularly see players engaging in this behavior. they are not bad players . but they often contribute very little to the battle this pic being case in point .

one group engaging and doing good damage to the other team while the other group plinks away at the enemy (im guilty in this match) but we did move to engage the enemy and try to hammer them back with some non meaningful results. while the other group essentially does nothing.

Unfortunately (because my damage would have been a lot higher)i did not die early enough in battle to watch this or the others but from previous experience i can bet they were either facing a wall or not in any position to engage the enemy.

There is a disparity between ideologies when it comes to playing this game. and it needs to be resolved. This is not the old argument against campers. as other fps games, campers usually provide some sort of aid to the game. this game is different though, we need players actively engaging the enemy. if you want to camp so be it, but please shoot the enemy ... dont keep your weapons "off the field". every bit of damage helps if you rush at least hammer something ... if you hide behind a wall or hill, hammer something. please do some damage.

too many games im seeing players actively choosing not to engage the enemy. giving way to advancement or worse larger concentrations of incoming fire ..

so please actively engage the enemy shoot them 4 or 5 times at least hopefully more. im not asking for zerg tactics im just asking for engagement and return fire... is that really to much to ask for?

I'm with you there. THAT is pretty much unacceptable, even if you spent most of the match disconnected. I'm assuming it's not the case,

I want to throw in a caveat, though. You allude in your post to the fact that you were NOT spectating the player in question all that long. I cannot count on all the fingers and toes in my household (counting even the cats, of which there are many) the times I've been 'called out' by another player on my team, upset that he/she (let's face it though--HE) is no longer in the fight and it's somehow MY fault.

This one match, on Tourmaline Desert, where I'm the last left alive, in an ACH already missing one side torso, running for the enemy cap (ASSAULT) as the last of my twelve-man left standing against five or more of theirs. I'm getting it up one side and down the other, about what a F*****G P***Y I am, how I am a coward player, how I should have been providing ECM cover for my team and BRAWLING the enemy heavies in my light, etc. Why? Because I'm still up, and I'm doing SOMETHING to try to win the match in spite of my team. Turns out, I out-damaged that player more than 2:1 in that match, despite having less than half his weight and alpha. Turns out, I faced down a Cataphract AND a Dire Wolf in that ACH. Turns out, when 3 heavy/assault mechs on my team were cowering around a corner from a badly-damaged enemy CTF, I LED that push around the corner into its guns. Yeah. I AM THE V****A! Seems, all some people see is what they spectate after they get themselves killed, doing what they then yell at me for doing. Projecting, I think it's called? Something like that.

NOT ACCUSING THE OP OF THIS, BTW.

Just saying that there's a caveat, and it is that you should KNOW (not THINK you know, but F***ING KNOW) that you're on target when you call someone out for being a coward in game. It seems pretty obvious in the OP's image that he's either DEAD ON, or forgetting that that player was disconnected until about 5 seconds before the match ended. Most likely the former.

This is also why I hardly ever pilot lights any more. Until the game has some actual use for recon, there's no real point in it other than to grind up the mechs in hope of such a day. Right now, no one wants your intel, they just want a 12v12 brawl, and anything at all else is cowardice.

Okay. I'll play that game...

Edited by TheRAbbi, 05 January 2016 - 09:16 PM.

[nitra]

TheRAbbi, on 05 January 2016 - 09:15 PM, said:

I'm with you there. THAT is pretty much unacceptable, even if you spent most of the match disconnected. I'm assuming it's not the case,

I want to throw in a caveat, though. You allude in your post to the fact that you were NOT spectating the player in question all that long. I cannot count on all the fingers and toes in my household (counting even the cats, of which there are many) the times I've been 'called out' by another player on my team, upset that he/she (let's face it though--HE) is no longer in the fight and it's somehow MY fault.

This one match, on Tourmaline Desert, where I'm the last left alive, in an ACH already missing one side torso, running for the enemy cap (ASSAULT) as the last of my twelve-man left standing against five or more of theirs. I'm getting it up one side and down the other, about what a F*****G P***Y I am, how I am a coward player, how I should have been providing ECM cover for my team and BRAWLING the enemy heavies in my light, etc. Why? Because I'm still up, and I'm doing SOMETHING to try to win the match in spite of my team. Turns out, I out-damaged that player more than 2:1 in that match, despite having less than half his weight and alpha. Turns out, I faced down a Cataphract AND a Dire Wolf in that ACH. Turns out, when 3 heavy/assault mechs on my team were cowering around a corner from a badly-damaged enemy CTF, I LED that push around the corner into its guns. Yeah. I AM THE V****A! Seems, all some people see is what they spectate after they get themselves killed, doing what they then yell at me for doing. Projecting, I think it's called? Something like that.

NOT ACCUSING THE OP OF THIS, BTW.

Just saying that there's a caveat, and it is that you should KNOW (not THINK you know, but F***ING KNOW) that you're on target when you call someone out for being a coward in game. It seems pretty obvious in the OP's image that he's either DEAD ON, or forgetting that that player was disconnected until about 5 seconds before the match ended. Most likely the former.

This is also why I hardly ever pilot lights any more. Until the game has some actual use for recon, there's no real point in it other than to grind up the mechs in hope of such a day. Right now, no one wants your intel, they just want a 12v12 brawl, and anything at all else is cowardice.

Okay. I'll play that game...

trust me i feel you, i have much respect for those who play lights even those pesky shadow cat back stabbing sons o biznatches... i thought about elaborating on the conversation of that match, but figured it would stray the conversation .. so i wont ... just sticking to the basic point of engaging the enemy, need more of it .

[Bonger Bob]

TheRAbbi, on 05 January 2016 - 09:15 PM, said:

I'm with you there. THAT is pretty much unacceptable, even if you spent most of the match disconnected. I'm assuming it's not the case,

<ouch>

Okay. I'll play that game...

I understand your pain.....I favored lights at one point heavily, but this is exactly why i play em for kicks only mostly now.

2 issues with the lights stand out :

1 - no one seems to want or make use of the intel you provide until its too late, and your blamed for not providing it.

2 - OMFG the ECM......ill let you all know if you don't already, the ECM is mine, for as long as i live and can use it. I often try to use it to help the team where its tactically wise to do so, but im not going to follow you to the worst spot on the map to engage just to leg hump you while then being screamed at for blocking your path, just so you can play poke games.....and if your in a mech that could have equiped the ECM as well and didn't, im going to purposely sit out of cover range and watch you die screaming for having not equiped a tactical item that you desire the benefit of...... this has only gotten worse since the recent range nerf....ive seen soooooo many D-DC's of late not having the ECM in it......some have even asked for ECM cover.....it makes me sick.....

overall it's great being a light pilot and unfortunately that goes hand in hand sometimes with being caught up in the "didn't participate" bunch, best if you ignore chat secure in your knowledge of how you contributed but the team didn't use your contribution. The added bonus you get is a ****** K/D ratio anyways ( as playing a light isn't always about kills anyways ), so hopefully you don't get boxed into the "trying to preserve your K/D ratio" bunch.

and we all have those bad rounds in a scout light, you know, when you round that corner / go over that ridge and discover the whole enemy deathball huddled ready to give you a special hug.......it happens, don't let it get to you.

Edited by Bonger Bob, 05 January 2016 - 09:41 PM.

[adamts01]

One of the hardest things in this game is knowing when to push. Couple that with a new team every match, that widely varies in skill, and you breed a cautious environment. I'm a very aggressive player, but that playstyle just doesn't work outside of large group drops (most times.) If there were lobbies, and better chat, things would be different. It would be easier to group up with like-minded teammates and discuss strategies. But as it is, cautious trading wins games.

[Xetelian]

I've reported many players for shutting down and running out the clock. It seems to be a pretty damn common thing to see, I haven't once reported a player for calling out the location of a shutdown or AFK mech on my team or the enemy's.

I assume most people are like me and report for one offense but not the other.

[Nuebot]

The best "Self preservation" moments are when you're in the perfect moment to attack and take out a whole lance before the enemy even knows what's up, their backs are to you and they're outgunned. You make a move, you score a good hit and core the guy in front of you aaaand the rest of your team runs away to prepare for the max-range medium laser sniping leaving you and anyone who stuck behind to now engage in an out numbered battle.

[Hawk_eye]

adamts01, on 05 January 2016 - 09:52 PM, said:

I'm a very aggressive player, but that playstyle just doesn't work outside of large group drops (most times.) If there were lobbies, and better chat, things would be different. It would be easier to group up with like-minded teammates and discuss strategies. But as it is, cautious trading wins games.

My horrible K/D rate of 0.56 wholeheartedly agrees with that (at least no one can accuse me of not being aggressive enough )

[Kerensky98]

Bonger Bob, on 05 January 2016 - 09:39 PM, said:

2 - OMFG the ECM......ill let you all know if you don't already, the ECM is mine, for as long as i live and can use it. I often try to use it to help the team where its tactically wise to do so, but im not going to follow you to the worst spot on the map to engage just to leg hump you while then being screamed at for blocking your path, just so you can play poke games.....and if your in a mech that could have equiped the ECM as well and didn't, im going to purposely sit out of cover range and watch you die screaming for having not equiped a tactical item that you desire the benefit of...... this has only gotten worse since the recent range nerf....ive seen soooooo many D-DC's of late not having the ECM in it......some have even asked for ECM cover.....it makes me sick.....

THIS A THOUSAND TIMES!

It's always the steam noob in the assault mech that charges out into the middle of the map where no cover exists and then absorbs then entire enemy team's LRM rain who starts screaming, "WHY DIDN'T YOU COVER ME WITH YOUR ECM!!!"

Uhhh, because the team would have made fun of BOTH of the morons that ran into the open to die instead of just the one.
I thought it would be best to stay where I could cover the three other assault mechs instead of just you. Or re-position to the sniper nook that got me 3 kills and 500 damage coring the enemies back while you rage quit.

[Escef]

N0MAD, on 05 January 2016 - 07:47 PM, said:

Actually you see this in many games due to people wanting to pad stats especially K/D, in most pug games W/L means little as RNG really determines W/L so people dont really care about W/L as it can be blamed on RNG, but K/D is to them, important.
Hang out the back relatively safe making some safe shots, then run in with an undamaged vehicle and clean up.

This might be accurate if a RNG piloted your mech for you and determined the group's tactics.

[LordNothing]

i tend to get kind of punchy in a camp fight and will commit a leeroy when i become bored with the game. its not really a suicide because i can usually take something out before i go. i especially get frustrated when everyone is hiding, but nobody had made contact with the enemy yet. the whole team would rather go ignorant of the enemy than to get an approximate idea of where their guns should be pointed. making contact with the enemy is a priority for me, once i know where they are i will decide to either hide or engage, i prefer the latter.

Edited by LordNothing, 06 January 2016 - 03:04 AM.

[TWIAFU]

nitra, on 05 January 2016 - 06:52 PM, said:

There is a disparity between ideologies when it comes to playing this game. and it needs to be resolved.

So, who's ideology should we all follow?

Yours?

Mine?

PGIs?

Some random steamtard scrub?

[adamts01]

What's way harder to deal with than cautious vs aggressive mixes are players that try to cap on conquest and assault on small maps. "IT'S A LEGITIMATE TACTIC, IT'S A LEGITIMATE TACTIC," BAM, dead, team loses because they didn't have that 1 extra gun in the fight.