35 replies to this topic

[Tom Sawyer]

I agree with you OP. Sadly there are many many threads on this but if you can corner Russ on his twitter fortress of russotude the only answer we hear from within is Hey wana buy this shiny mech pack?

[Bloodlustknight]

MechregSurn, on 05 January 2016 - 10:07 PM, said:

I have made many mechwarrior maps and it seems the problem is that with 24 mechs, the maximum map size is pretty small. There is very little room to scout or to play in unique ways.

Funny how that is when there is a giant map like Alpine Peaks where, if it were not designed around 1 mountain, scouts would be the winning factor of that map. Imagine Boreal with that big of a terrain. Instead it sill looks like one giant "Prince Albert"

[sycocys]

Tom Sawyer, on 08 January 2016 - 10:44 AM, said:

I agree with you OP. Sadly there are many many threads on this but if you can corner Russ on his twitter fortress of russotude the only answer we hear from within is Hey wana buy this shiny mech pack?

Tom, you want to buy a Steam Pack?

[Zolaz]

Paul and Russ say the maps are awesome. Unfortunately, neither one has played all the maps. Maybe someone needs to invite them to new game of Dragon Bowling, CW style.

[PerfectDuck]

The CW maps are very brawler-enabling which is why I've had an Atlas in my IS deck since day 1 and it has accrued close to a million XP points.

Back when clantech was OP, the map layout itself was one of the things that kept IS teams from losing outright. Now that the tech is more balanced I do agree that some map adjustments would make the CW experience more interesting.

[KinLuu]

The only CW map I really dislike are sulphur, because the attacking side has to walk SO much.

[MTier Slayed Up]

The problem with the OP is that he wants a base without choke points/trenches/etc...Which nearly every map has with a slight exception to Emerald Taiga and Vitric Forge (lack of trenches.) Bases aren't meant to be open ended without choke points, etc. Choke points are intended for actual defense because...Well, it's attack and defend! Derp. Any person with a smidgen of tactical knowledge will use these choke points to their full advantage. It's not horrible map design so much as the designers were thinking of defending an entrenched base perspective, which it should be. Only an idiot would put a base in a open area without any terrain advantages.

Now, do I think the maps are stellar? I hate Boreal Vault with a passion because it usually feels one sided, and quite literally, the hardest map to win on if you're attacking, being it an uphill battle. Do I think that every base will be set against a giant wall of terrain, preventing them from being surrounded? No, that's simply not realistic. Do I wish there was a secondary platform to defend the gate generators? It'd be nice and actually cool to have your team preventing what is, in my opinion, essential to defend, the gates. There's a lot of room for improvement, but the critique being aimed at the choke point design is incorrect.

[LordNothing]

what i dont like is that every map has identical objectives, identical progression and identical design. its like russ saw one poor map design and said "make 10 more just like it". the redundancy from map to map is pretty atrocious. gens gens gens gens.

im thinking instead each planet is a campaign, composed out of missions which all take place on a single very large map (just grow out existing maps). missions are played in tug of war fashion. one team's objectives compliment the other so if one completes a mission the other fails. the game mode is open, so you can join in progress provided there arent already too many players on it. players queue up a lance at a time which drop in every 10 minutes or so (you can tweak the interval so is teams can drop by lance and clan by star). if you die, you can queue back up for another drop. the games run continuously until one side completes all its missions, at which point the planet is given to the unit which fielded the most players and there is a cooldown before that planet may be attacked again (no ceasefires!).

different planets are different campaigns, with each planet represented by one of the maps. each map would have different missions (might actually be possible that you can reuse the maps with different missions, so it might be possible to have different missions on every planet in spite of the map reuse). for example if you drop in solaris you might be fighting in a tournament, if you drop on stranamechty you might find yourself in a trial of grievance. missions might even be lore based, where you fight in missions discribed in the books.

Edited by LordNothing, 09 January 2016 - 06:51 PM.

[LupineShadow]

vandalhooch, on 05 January 2016 - 09:48 PM, said:

LOOK AT MY tierPEEN!

Fix'd.

Actin' like they were the originators of the cheetah defender rush. HA!

[vandalhooch]

LupineShadow, on 09 January 2016 - 07:54 PM, said:

Fix'd.

Actin' like they were the originators of the cheetah defender rush. HA!

Holy cow! Cheetah rush? You are a moron. I'm talking counter rushes from the first two weeks of CW. 10 months before the Cheetah was released.

But thanks for showing us how little you know about the mode.

[LupineShadow]

vandalhooch, on 10 January 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Holy cow! Cheetah rush? You are a moron. I'm talking counter rushes from the first two weeks of CW. 10 months before the Cheetah was released.

But thanks for showing us how little you know about the mode.

/slowclap

Impressive. Now go home to... wait... do you guys still own planets?

#threadderailed

[Varvar86]

Discussed over 9000 times. Still no effect.
But I'm glad that players actually agreed that for battletech this CW maps “design” has no excuses. So I Paste here my thoughts from much older post

“Proposition:

Delete these maps. No joking. Just admit that they are failed - and delete em all. Redesign it from the ground. Based on the circle form - not the line. Round alike map, with base placed near center.
Base is fully locked at the start – secured by automatic turrets shooting on sight everything that moves even own defend forces (to prevent turrets exploit). Nobody can get in and get out. Map has 16 drop zones around the map NOT placed inside closed clusters. Before round start Attackers, voting for 3 drop points they wish to drop (all drops points placed near each other, choosing points in different sides of the map not allowed). After vote finished, system randomly adds other 5 drops to chosen 3 (nearest ones) and mark em as blocked. So defenders will see 8 possible drop points (only 3 of them are real) and predict general attack direction. Defenders has other 8 drop points around map to choose from. Defenders vote for their drop points trying to guess where attackers will drop. (That’s will bring more variety to game, no predefined attack lines and copy/paste boring rounds).
During the match player can deside which point he wants to respawn next mech. Main – if there is more than 2 enemy mechs within 600m near ANY drop zone - drop zone is unacceptable and can’t be used. Map is big enough to place drops wide, so they can’t be blocked all at same, and can’t be camped either. If person dies he can choose to drop next mech single, or to wait other 3 persons to drop in 4 persons from one drop ship. It's up to players o decide where to drop next mechs - organization of this process (well organized in case of unit and 1commander avaible or usual happy pugging) is up to team.

1-st stage.
conquest 6+ points around the map to destroy power lines connecting base with other regions.
Attackers capturing points and destroying power lines. Depending on how many power lines are destroyed different base gates will be opened from it’s different sides. Each broken power line open gate and disables nearby turrets, ao attackers ultimate goal is to destroy all power ines to open more paths and disable all turrets of external defense line. Defenders tries to stop them.

2-nd stage.
Ideal base must be round - with lots of entrances 8 or more. Drop zones moved closer (to speed up action and evade long walks) to the center with the same rules of drop. Omega (or central core) has loooooooots of health – so defenders has plenty of time to roll in from different directions trying to push out attackers from the base.
As result: no "bottle necks" or so many of them that they are impossible to block all even with 1 mech on each. Gameplay variety. Scouting and maneuvering are useful

Lets also imagine such utopia thing as map randomizer. That creates visually different maps basing on set of predefined terrain models and randomly mix things like
PSurface – earth-like, alien, no atmosphere, asteroid
Conditions –earth-like (all weathers possible here) extreme (epic sand storms, tornados, etc, electrical storms,), absent (no atmosphere, extreme gravity, low gravity, etc.)
Temperature - open space/cold/medium/hot/extreme….. mixed (imagine big asteroid without atmosphere with fast turning tare, day night circle every 10 minutes, cold while dark, and hot while in sun)
Visual Terrain - earth-like, alien, no atmosphere
Terrain objects – set of houses towers roads bridges, other.

Subject to discussion anyway.

Edited by Varvar86, 12 January 2016 - 04:11 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

agree with most of the points iterated above. The CW maps should be larger, there shouldn't be only 2 or 3 choke points as the only way into a base.

Why not? Thats how you properly design a base. So its not easy to get in. Working as intended.

Thats not the problem. The problem, like someone else said, is not enough different gamemodes.

Quote

Delete these maps. No joking. Just admit that they are failed - and delete em all. Redesign it from the ground

Yeah thats never gonna happen.

Theres reasonable suggestion and unreasonable ones. And that one is definitely unreasonable.

Edited by Khobai, 12 January 2016 - 07:25 AM.

[sycocys]

Spreading out the gates on some of the maps would be reasonable. It would at least force people to choose lanes of attack or defense.

The one with the 2 really wide spread gates is possibly the best for that because it allows the defenders to react, but doesn't give them a free place to set up a firing line that can almost instantly respond to a breach on either gate like other maps have.

I haven't had enough coffee to recall the names, maybe Hellbore as one of the better designed, and Portico/Boreal as the worst. - in terms of gate placement.

Edited by sycocys, 12 January 2016 - 10:52 AM.

[SQW]

I think even that little 'base' in Alpine is better placed than all the current CW maps - multiple points of entry, wide open space in two directions etc.

I wonder if the map pool will get updated in Beta 2 because both the Pub queue maps and CW maps are getting a little stale. Personally, I wouldn't mind skirmish or assault on some CW maps.

[Jack Booted Thug]

sycocys, on 05 January 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

Well, more than a few of us have been trying to explain that since early on but the loudest people think that which planet your unit tag is on is far more important than actually having an interesting mode that people would actually want to play.

Yea, but after bringing it up what did PGI do? Release more of the same type of maps. You'll play these choke point maps and like em!!!