24 replies to this topic

[Crifuan]

Hello everybody!

There have been some good trys of PGI to support and reward teamplayers.
My opinion is that there should be more.
Still it seems that getting a maximum of personal kills is the first objektive for the most mechwarriors.
When you look at the personal stats the most important stat seems to be the kill/death-ration (green > 1 oder red < 1). Not really lot others are shown in the Basic stats.

So I´ve following suggestions and wishes:

- Show also the kill assists in the basic stats
- Count "kill most damage dealt" a a kill or a half kill
- rise the xp and c-bill reward for TAG-Damage, NARCing, scouting and operating in lances

Of course not everyone will be changed to a teamplayer and a team-win-orientated warrior, but it will reward those who try.

How ever, I think PGI is doing great job and I hope they´ll continue this.
Greetings

[Gas Guzzler]

I actually just focus on doing as much damage as possible. Kills come when they come, as long as you are melting through armor and structure at important locations you are helping the team.

But people also need to be aware, if you are an a fast ECM mech with ER LLs, you could run around and pad your damage all day while the other team pummels your team with LRMs and other longer range weapons (not an issue in group queue, but solo queue can be an issue on certain maps) and that's not really the best use of your mech. Sure you might have top damage at they end of the match, but that's because you had free shots all game while your team was tanking the whole time.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 06 January 2016 - 08:15 AM.

[NextGame]

Personally, I don't really care about damage. I prefer to kill enemy mechs as quickly as possible, and if I can do that by just taking off a side torso or opening their back then all the better.

Efficiency should be rewarded, but a lot harder to account for programmatically when you take things like assists etc into account than just straight up damage and kills.

Also positioning. Getting involved in the fight should be rewarded, whereas standing at the back hiding should not.

[Gas Guzzler]

Damage means you are killing them though... I don't mean I try to spread damage, but I do take the quickest route to destroying them. For instance, Gauss in a side torso, yeah that is going to go. It might not kill them, but all you have to do is scratch the internals and it goes boom, and it takes firepower with it. It also depends on the status of the rest of the mech, if the CT is already open, a good alpha should put them down most of the time. It is all situational.

Don't assume I look to be inefficient just because I am maximizing my damage output. That is why I noted that the damage is all going to important locations.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 06 January 2016 - 08:28 AM.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 January 2016 - 08:12 AM, said:

I actually just focus on doing as much damage as possible. Kills come when they come, as long as you are melting through armor and structure at important locations you are helping the team.

And

NextGame, on 06 January 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

...I prefer to kill enemy mechs as quickly as possible, and if I can do that by just taking off a side torso or opening their back then all the better.

Try to inflict as much damage as possible to the other team, and when a weakness presents itself (like a cored ST in an XL mech), exploit it to kill an enemy as efficiently as possible. Both equally sound advice.

[Lukoi Banacek]

The basic stats page sets the tone for the experience, which I believe is part of what thr OP is noting here.

That being said, as the pilot's front page snapshot, I would love to see the PGI guys archive current stats and introduce a new stats page that includes at least the following:

W/L ratio
KDR
Most kill damage done
Damage average
Assists per match average
Damage absorbed average
Team damage average
NARC damage done average (but only across matches actually played with NARC)
TAG damage done average (but only across matches actually played with TAG)
ECM protection (when ECM equipped)

Easily achievable and a more holistic spread of information that paints a better picture of player skill, achievement and tendencies.

There are probably a few more snapshot items that could be added, but these I think are a good baseline to start with.

Edited by Lukoi Banacek, 06 January 2016 - 08:40 AM.

[FlipOver]

I've said this before, damage and kills have been and still are overrated!

You can do <200 damage and still be the reason why your team won.
Examples:
1 - Narc Light mech.... shoot lasers, narc and run away to get the next target ready.
2 - Pulling a Rabbit - light mech gets on the enemies backs and gets their attention to the point of having more than 1 enemy chasing. He is splitting the enemy giving his team a better chance at engaging.

I agree there should be something else done to reward situations like this.
Some say a win is the reward, but they aren't usually on that pilots shoes and rack up a pretty penny from their assists and damage.

About the ECM light, now that ECM has a much smaller radius, it makes little to no sense to request a light's presence between all the assaults, getting in the way and taking damage it can't handle.
ECM lights should be scouting, spoting, tagging, narcing, providing intel, distracting the enemy (either directly or by base cap), droping uavs on the backs of the enemies... and so on.

If the team has a problem with LRMs or Direct Fired Shots... that's a problem about positioning, not about not having ECM around.

If you still believe ECM is that important, get a mech (not light mech) with ECM and run with it so you can feel safe while face-tanking the enemy in the open.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

I focus on damage. Not necessarily the damage total on the score board (though I do love getting that) but rather on hurting the enemy forces.

Coring out an enemy mech means they will usually die on their next trade or spend the rest of the match hiding. Destroying the big guns on certain builds to greatly reduces their impact on the match. Any free damage, that sort of thing.

One of my favorite games I had +1400 damage and no kills. It may not have been the most efficient damage but the team locked them down from range and about 80% of that was free damage.

[Murphy7]

One of my favorite recent games was running a NARC Raven for my team who was carrying some LRM support. It was murderous, but mechs were getting finished off with direct fire so no NARC kills. Only had 3 MLas for my own defense so my damage was around 100-150 ish. We steamrolled that side, but my match score was abysmal.

The weight of damage in score isn't the worst thing, but it would be nice to have something like "NARC damage" or "TAG damage" where friendy missiles using your NARC/TAG score damage, the spotter shares in the credit for that damage.

[Islington]

The kill and dmg metrics dont actually reward good play. They should switch entirely to a match score statistic based more on real damage done to mechs. By which I mean points for destroying weapon systems, legs, half a clan xl, and kills. You shouldnt get the same points for blowing off someones shield side as you do for taking out the section with all their guns.

I wouldn't get rid of points for overall damage entirely but maybe if it weighted the points for damage to components that are worth destroying it would be perfect.

If we did this you'd see a lot of changes. First you'd see less lrm spam because the spread dmg wouldn't reward players as much and make them think they are actually helping their team. Two, people would see just how bad clan mechs really are about spreading damage all over the place and we might see a fix for clan ballistics and clan laser burn times.

[Karl Marlow]

Crifuan, on 06 January 2016 - 08:09 AM, said:

Hello everybody!

There have been some good trys of PGI to support and reward teamplayers.
My opinion is that there should be more.
Still it seems that getting a maximum of personal kills is the first objektive for the most mechwarriors.
When you look at the personal stats the most important stat seems to be the kill/death-ration (green &gt; 1 oder red &lt; 1). Not really lot others are shown in the Basic stats.

So I´ve following suggestions and wishes:

- Show also the kill assists in the basic stats
- Count &quot;kill most damage dealt&quot; a a kill or a half kill
- rise the xp and c-bill reward for TAG-Damage, NARCing, scouting and operating in lances

Of course not everyone will be changed to a teamplayer and a team-win-orientated warrior, but it will reward those who try.

How ever, I think PGI is doing great job and I hope they´ll continue this.
Greetings

If you want to remove ego then remove all public displays of stats of any kind.

[adamts01]

If you contribute, with whatever it is you do well, you'll win more. It's impossible for a computer to determine what is/isn't actually contributing. Staying in your lance for instance. If your team is balled up and hiding in a canyon.... you shouldn't be rewarded. Scouting (looking at things), absolutely impossible for a computer to rate how useful you are. It's all about the wins.

[Mystere]

Remove all stats except wins.

[nehebkau]

Anytime you find a way to measure *skill* you will find people who figure out how to game the system. I measure my skill on how others view my abilities and judge others skill by how they play. Everything else is just noise for e-peenabators (trademark 2016).

Edited by nehebkau, 06 January 2016 - 09:17 AM.

[Blue Hymn]

Suppression is a rare art nowadays. Throw a few ppc bolts down at the enemy - doesn't matter if it hits, more often than not in Pugs, people will keep their head down for a while or stall in their push just long enough for your teammates to flank or get to better positioning. There's been some occasions where some good ol' ppc bolts fired in rapid succession at the grounds in front of an enemy push can pause an enemy flank just long enough for the team to respond to an unexpected intrusion.

Or regroup and reinforce their position. Granted, your damage will be lackluster (unless you're a decent shot, unlike me), but hey. If the team wins, it's all good right?

[MeiSooHaityu]

Mystere, on 06 January 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

Remove all stats except wins.

Unfortunately that is not the most useful or telling stat in PUGlandia. :/

[NextGame]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 January 2016 - 08:27 AM, said:

Damage means you are killing them though... I don't mean I try to spread damage, but I do take the quickest route to destroying them. For instance, Gauss in a side torso, yeah that is going to go. It might not kill them, but all you have to do is scratch the internals and it goes boom, and it takes firepower with it. It also depends on the status of the rest of the mech, if the CT is already open, a good alpha should put them down most of the time. It is all situational.

Don't assume I look to be inefficient just because I am maximizing my damage output. That is why I noted that the damage is all going to important locations.

Apologies, wasn't so much a reply to you specifically, rather that it triggered a general thought regarding damage dealing as I know that there are a lot of people who run around playing to maximise damage as the be all and end all shout about their numbers, as opposed to worrying about their team actually winning.

There are players that will sit and spread damage on 1 mech that they could just core out in a few seconds while their team is 4-2 down and otherwise pinned in a corner.

Edited by NextGame, 06 January 2016 - 09:42 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

NextGame, on 06 January 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

Apologies, wasn't so much a reply to you specifically, rather that it triggered a general thought regarding damage dealing as I know that there are a lot of people who run around playing to maximise damage as the be all and end all shout about their numbers, as opposed to worrying about their team actually winning.

Yeah, I wasn't sure, I just thought I better clarify

[Felbombling]

Which result would you rather have?

• 855 damage game with 0 kills and 6 assists.
  
• 433 damage game with 2 kills and 4 assists.

Either way, the Narc XP and rewards need to be listed better. I've tried using it, even on Mechs that cannot benefit directly from it, and it rarely seems like a great investment.

Edited by StaggerCheck, 06 January 2016 - 10:04 AM.

[El Bandito]

As a guy who openly admits that he covers his inaccuracy with tons of damage, I welcome the idea of showing assists and Kill Most Damage scores on the stats screen.