92 replies to this topic

[CDLord HHGD]

If you only chase the quirks for a mech then you will eventually be let down.

Sure they are good now, but who is to say they won't change? PSA: they will change. If you follow the trend of <insert current meta here> domination, expect a balancing (nerfing). If you spent real money based solely on a mech's ability to meta, well, that's on you.

If you know nothing about the lore and wonder why people like me defend it so voraciously, then I encourage you to check out Sarna. Granted it's a Wiki, but I haven't found anything blatantly false. This is more than just a robot shooter. This is Mechwarrior! There are things that need to be done a certain way else it fails to be Mechwarrior. Plenty of sacrifices have been made in the name of FPS, but many problems have been made as well. Maybe a little bit of knowledge in the community will help the overall rift.

If you are just here to club baby seals and play CoD in robots, then there's no help for you but expect myself or another to always be there to oppose you (unless something you bring up makes sense, then we'll probably support you).

Wow, TOTALLY did not intend this to be a rant. Sry....

[Mechteric]

So what I hear you saying is chase the Dragon!

But the thing is, you never catch the Dragon!

[Piney II]

Quirks are fleeting. I've never bought mechs based on them.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

CapperDeluxe, on 04 January 2016 - 10:41 AM, said:

So what I hear you saying is chase the Dragon!

But the thing is, you never catch the Dragon!

That's because I'm running an XL360 like nature intended.

[Lorian Sunrider]

As far as I'm concern all mechs should be blank slates to start. Quirks should help prop up weaker chassis like Commandos, Trebuchets, Vindicators to a slightly higher level to get closer in terms of competitive ability as the "Meta". The Meta mechs hardly need half of their quirks.

Realistically, the most recent quirk pass was something of a joke when there were so many underpowered Chassis's that got zero love and certain more Meta mechs that got boosted.

Edited by Lorian Sunrider, 04 January 2016 - 10:57 AM.

[Sandpit]

Quirks went from a great thing to add diversity between variants to the main balancing tool unfortunately.

This particular issue, to me anyhow, is PGI simply being a bit on the "lazy" in regards to balancing as well as the problem with the long history of band-aids instead of addressing underlying issues properly.

[Khobai]

Quote

As far as I'm concern all mechs should be blank slates to start. Quirks should help prop up weaker chassis like Commandos, Trebuchets, Vindicators to a slightly higher level to get closer in terms of competitive ability as the "Meta". The Meta mechs hardly need half of their quirks.

This. Quirks shouldnt be used for weapon balance and quirks shouldnt determine the meta. The whole point of quirks is just to help out inferior mechs and differentiate similar mechs. Both IS and Clan mechs need quirks for that purpose.

Weapons need to be completely rebalanced without quirks.

[Bishop Steiner]

cdlord, on 04 January 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

If you only chase the quirks for a mech then you will eventually be let down.

Sure they are good now, but who is to say they won't change? PSA: they will change. If you follow the trend of <insert current meta here> domination, expect a balancing (nerfing). If you spent real money based solely on a mech's ability to meta, well, that's on you.

If you know nothing about the lore and wonder why people like me defend it so voraciously, then I encourage you to check out Sarna. Granted it's a Wiki, but I haven't found anything blatantly false. This is more than just a robot shooter. This is Mechwarrior! There are things that need to be done a certain way else it fails to be Mechwarrior. Plenty of sacrifices have been made in the name of FPS, but many problems have been made as well. Maybe a little bit of knowledge in the community will help the overall rift.

If you are just here to club baby seals and play CoD in robots, then there's no help for you but expect myself or another to always be there to oppose you (unless something you bring up makes sense, then we'll probably support you).

Wow, TOTALLY did not intend this to be a rant. Sry....

but..... the first taste is free.

[CDLord HHGD]

Bishop Steiner, on 04 January 2016 - 11:04 AM, said:

but..... the first taste is free.

Well this IS a F2P game... $2500 later....

[Quicksilver Aberration]

cdlord, on 04 January 2016 - 10:35 AM, said:

This is more than just a robot shooter. This is Mechwarrior! There are things that need to be done a certain way else it fails to be Mechwarrior. Plenty of sacrifices have been made in the name of FPS, but many problems have been made as well. Maybe a little bit of knowledge in the community will help the overall rift.

If you are just here to club baby seals and play CoD in robots, then there's no help for you but expect myself or another to always be there to oppose you (unless something you bring up makes sense, then we'll probably support you).

This is so vague that it fails to make any sort of point, just wanting to put that out there, it is just rhetoric...

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 04 January 2016 - 11:32 AM.

[Sandpit]

Khobai, on 04 January 2016 - 11:02 AM, said:

Weapons need to be completely rebalanced without quirks.

agreed, although I still believe the same problems will persist unless they revamp the heat scale. Until there's penalties for running hot, it's not going to matter.

The same balancing issues existed prior to quirks, and they exist after quirks because PGI cannot, or will not, address the heat scale issue. So what we have now is the system I figure we'll have from now on.

I don't see PGI ripping off the heat scale and ghost heat band-aid because it would cause far too much turmoil in the game at this point. The time for major overhaul and system reworking was Beta, unfortunately that ship has sailed.

[Khobai]

Quote

agreed, although I still believe the same problems will persist unless they revamp the heat scale. Until there's penalties for running hot, it's not going to matter.

heat penalties would turn the game into ballistic warrior online

it wouldnt give us a balanced meta it would just shift the meta towards ballistics.

why would anyone want to use energy weapons and suffer heat penalties when they could use ballistic weapons, run completely cool, and suffer no penalties at all? so yeah you would just kill energy builds off overnight and any mech that couldnt spam ballistics would become obsolete.

the real problem is pinpoint convergence. you shouldnt be able to fire all your weapons into a single hit location. that's what causes pretty much all of the game's problems.

Edited by Khobai, 04 January 2016 - 11:50 AM.

[CDLord HHGD]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 January 2016 - 11:31 AM, said:

This is so vague that it fails to make any sort of point, just wanting to put that out there, it is just rhetoric...

Other people got it so maybe it's you....

It's generalized for a purpose. Sounds like you have a problem....

[Sandpit]

Khobai, on 04 January 2016 - 11:43 AM, said:

heat penalties would turn the game into ballistic warrior online

it wouldnt give us a balanced meta it would just shift the meta towards ballistics.

why would anyone want to use energy weapons and suffer heat penalties when they could use ballistic weapons, run completely cool, and suffer no penalties at all? so yeah you would just kill energy builds off overnight and any mech that couldnt spam ballistics would become obsolete.

the real problem is pinpoint convergence. you shouldnt be able to fire all your weapons into a single hit location. that's what causes pretty much all of the game's problems.

how so?
It didn't turn TT into ballistics warrior did it?

pinpoint convergence is an issue agreed, but a separate one from the heat issue and ghost heat and the ongoing balancing issue.

PPD is only an issue with FLD weapons. It's not an issue with any other weapon system. The heat issue is the underlying issue for EVERY weapon system.

[Almond Brown]

Not long now. HBS's BT game will solve everyone's issues. Well, not counting those who do not like "Turn based" combat games, but they don't really count anyways right? Real BT is played on the Board baby. Sorta like how "new players" apparently don't count in MWO as it turns out. Word is they all suck and should not be allowed to play CW... lol

[Quicksilver Aberration]

cdlord, on 04 January 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

Other people got it so maybe it's you....

It's generalized for a purpose. Sounds like you have a problem....

You still don't get it...

For example you say that Mechwarrior had to sacrifice things to become an FPS, which is a little odd since most of the Mechwarrior if not the entire series has been an FPS. What you wanted to say is that this is Battletech, but even then, what makes Battletech, Battletech? Is it the stats? TT purists like assure is the case but I would definitely disagree with this. Is battletech about the lore? Is it about giant stompy robots? Do you see why generalizing in this case is a bad thing, because some of these ideas run in opposition to each other.

Another example, I think we could dump most of the construction rules in favor of a less convoluted system and still be a Mechwarrior game, but many would call me blasphemous for even suggesting such a thing, but under your vague statement, we are both correct.

[CDLord HHGD]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 04 January 2016 - 12:36 PM, said:

You still don't get it...

For example you say that Mechwarrior had to sacrifice things to become an FPS, which is a little odd since most of the Mechwarrior if not the entire series has been an FPS. What you wanted to say is that this is Battletech, but even then, what makes Battletech, Battletech? Is it the stats? TT purists like assure is the case but I would definitely disagree with this. Is battletech about the lore? Is it about giant stompy robots? Do you see why generalizing in this case is a bad thing, because some of these ideas run in opposition to each other.

Another example, I think we could dump most of the construction rules in favor of a less convoluted system and still be a Mechwarrior game, but many would call me blasphemous for even suggesting such a thing, but under your vague statement, we are both correct.

Well, to reply to your example. If PGI actually followed the construction rules, we wouldn't have engines that weigh -2.5 tons... THAT alone causes much confusion. And I always viewed Mechwarrior as more of a simulation than a true FPS. Personally, I'd be OK with doing away with the mechlab in it's entirety.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

cdlord, on 04 January 2016 - 12:43 PM, said:

Well, to reply to your example. If PGI actually followed the construction rules, we wouldn't have engines that weigh -2.5 tons... THAT alone causes much confusion.

That isn't even what I'm talking about, the only reason that is the case is because of how they coded the mechlab to not automatically include the external heat sink tonnage if they are part of the first 10 required heat sinks (this rule is actually what is confusing, not how PGI handled it). I actually understand why they did it and why it works out for the BT construction rules but again isn't really what I'm driving at.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 04 January 2016 - 12:57 PM.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Quirks are one of the biggest things to point at when showcasing PGIs incompetence.

[MischiefSC]

Heroin is way, way more entertaining than quirks. Countless rockstars and movie stars can't be wrong. Ask John Belushi or Lemmy Kilmister ... oh, wait. NM.

Quirks are bad though. They just widen the gulf and make specific builds on specific variants mandatory.