58 replies to this topic

[Pardo Kerensky]

will you PLEASE remove the stupid ghost heat from firing 3 CERLL/CLPL at the same time?
clan weapons already make more heat just for a marginal amount of damage more, i dont see why if i build my mech correctly and can withstand the heat of clan weapons i still cant do it because DURRRR GHOST HEAT.
while IS can have 3 LPL quirked to hell thunderbolt 9SE that fires 3 LPL at the same time and then torsotwists to negate all the damage and clans cant have an equivalent
nope. no fun allowed.
if you want to put 3 CLPL/CERLL you cant fire them at the same time without getting stupid ghost heat.
im against ghost heat as a mechanic in general, because it is an anti fun cheap garbage mechanic that just goes against freedom of building your mechs as you want them to be but what is even worse than ghost heat is the disparity between ghost heat on clan weapons and IS weapons.
you already nerfed clan double heatsinks, you nerfed the duration on CERLL, you nerfed the overall range of clan lasers, you nerfed laser weapons on timberwolves and stomcrows with negative quirks, isnt that enough?
havent we had enough nerfs to clans and buffs to IS?
already as it is the average clan player has to play 3 times better than an IS player just to overcome the disparity between how quirked IS mechs are compared to clan mechs.
havent you IS babies cried enough 'clans are op nerf pls'?

[Gas Guzzler]

3 cLPL Timber is like my favorite mech in CW right now.

[kapusta11]

3x IS LL
27 damage
0.85 sec burn time (15% quirk)
540m range (20% quirk)
15 tons
19 heat (10% quirk)

2x C LPL
26 damage
1.12 sec burn time
600m range
12 tons
20 heat

Looks more or less balanced if you ask me.

[Ultimax]

I think you forgot the part where 2 CLPLs at 12 tons does basically the same damage/heat of 3x IS LLAS for 15 tons, except with more base range.


3x CLPLs is more effective at 18 tons than FOUR IS LLAS at 20 tons.


You want an IS LPL competitor, you have the CMPL. It's shorter range, but you can do 48 point alphas in 0.85s with no ghost heat.

[Felicitatem Parco]

kapusta11, on 06 January 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

3x IS LL
27 damage
0.85 sec burn time (15% quirk)
540m range (20% quirk)
15 tons
19 heat (10% quirk)

2x C LPL
26 damage
1.12 sec burn time
600m range
12 tons
20 heat

Looks more or less balanced if you ask me.

Yup, the Ghost Heat values are balanced in this case.

[Mechteric]

Ghost heat is a bad system, still holding out hope they will eventually redo the heat system then get rid of it.

[Khobai]

Quote

clan weapons already make more heat just for a marginal amount of damage more

Are you joking?

CERML does 40% more damage than ISML and you call it marginal?

CLPL does ~20% more damage on top of having 60% more range compared to ISLPL and you call it marginal?

lmao...

if anything clan weapons need massive nerfs so IS superquirks can be removed and the game can be balanced properly.

Edited by Khobai, 06 January 2016 - 10:17 AM.

[adamts01]

kapusta11, on 06 January 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

3x IS LL
27 damage
0.85 sec burn time (15% quirk)
540m range (20% quirk)
15 tons
19 heat (10% quirk)

2x C LPL
26 damage
1.12 sec burn time
600m range
12 tons
20 heat

Looks more or less balanced if you ask me.

Until you include quirks. I play both, hate CW and don't really care, but all the L33T teams switched to IS for a reason.

[Gas Guzzler]

adamts01, on 06 January 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

Until you include quirks. I play both, hate CW and don't really care, but all the L33T teams switched to IS for a reason.

MS and 228 both play the field anyway.

And quirks were included in that comparison.

[El Bandito]

adamts01, on 06 January 2016 - 10:16 AM, said:

Until you include quirks. I play both, hate CW and don't really care, but all the L33T teams switched to IS for a reason.

He did include quirks.

[adamts01]

Gas Guzzler, on 06 January 2016 - 10:18 AM, said:

MS and 228 both play the field anyway.

And quirks were included in that comparison.

El Bandito, on 06 January 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

He did include quirks.

My bad, it's late. Or early, I guess. That example looks very balanced. I don't agree with OP by the way. Clans are powerful enough as it is, and I hate power creep.

I still believe many IS mechs are overquirked. Blackjack torso hit points come to mind.

But anyway, I stand corrected.

Edited for drunk 2am grammar.

Edited by adamts01, 06 January 2016 - 10:31 AM.

[Moldur]

I would keep ghost heat on 2c-LPL as has been explained.

regular c-erLL I wouldn't mind if they knocked ghost heat to 3 LL. They are pretty much lightsabers. The duration and damage being worse than the c-LPL which pretty much takes care of all pug ranges makes the c-erLL something of a niche weapon for extreme range.

Edited by Moldur, 06 January 2016 - 11:23 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Moldur, on 06 January 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

I would keep ghost heat on 2c-LPL as has been explained.

regular c-erLL I wouldn't mind if they knocked ghost heat to 3 LL. They are pretty much lightsabers. The duration and damage being worse than the c-LPL which pretty much takes care of all pug ranges makes the c-erLL something of a niche weapon for extreme range.

I could get on board with that.

[Tyler Valentine]

kapusta11, on 06 January 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

3x IS LL
27 damage
0.85 sec burn time (15% quirk)
540m range (20% quirk)
15 tons
19 heat (10% quirk)

2x C LPL
26 damage
1.12 sec burn time
600m range
12 tons
20 heat

Looks more or less balanced if you ask me.

I disagree with the OP, I think it should be 2CLL vs 3ISLL but, to be fair, you can't just put the stats next to each other because we play with vastly different heat sinks. IS mechs have such a high heat cap that total heat generated by a given weapon system will be a smaller percentage of the total heat needed to induce shutdown.

I always try to be fair in my balance discussions but I notice that the vast majority of IS players don't bring up the changes to heat sinks...

[Gas Guzzler]

Tyler Valentine, on 06 January 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

I disagree with the OP, I think it should be 2CLL vs 3ISLL but, to be fair, you can't just put the stats next to each other because we play with vastly different heat sinks. IS mechs have such a high heat cap that total heat generated by a given weapon system will be a smaller percentage of the total heat needed to induce shutdown.

I always try to be fair in my balance discussions but I notice that the vast majority of IS players don't bring up the changes to heat sinks...

For 20 DHS, we are talking a heat cap difference of 4 heat. When you are talking 61-65 heat cap (without efficiencies), that is a pretty small difference. If you do the math, the heat cap difference is very small, and is being grossly over exaggerated. They aren't brought up because they aren't that different, AND Clan DHS dissipate slightly faster. It can't be COMPLETELY ignored, but that was a very small change.

Additionally, if you look at Clan vs IS mechs, you will notice that on average, Clan mechs end up fitting more heat sinks. On a pure laser vomit build, a Clan mech will have 24-26 DHS, where an IS mech will have 18-20.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 06 January 2016 - 12:10 PM.

[WarHippy]

kapusta11, on 06 January 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

3x IS LL
27 damage
0.85 sec burn time (15% quirk)
540m range (20% quirk)
15 tons
19 heat (10% quirk)

2x C LPL
26 damage
1.12 sec burn time
600m range
12 tons
20 heat

Looks more or less balanced if you ask me.

Not agreeing or disagreeing with the OP, but he did say IS LPL vs CLPL ghost heat and you are comparing LL to CLPL.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

kapusta11, on 06 January 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

3x IS LL
27 damage
0.85 sec burn time (15% quirk)
540m range (20% quirk)
15 tons
19 heat (10% quirk)

2x C LPL
26 damage
1.12 sec burn time
600m range
12 tons
20 heat

Looks more or less balanced if you ask me.

Don't forget the hardpoint counts either, those are pretty important.

Moldur, on 06 January 2016 - 11:18 AM, said:

I would keep ghost heat on 2c-LPL as has been explained.

regular c-erLL I wouldn't mind if they knocked ghost heat to 3 LL. They are pretty much lightsabers. The duration and damage being worse than the c-LPL which pretty much takes care of all pug ranges makes the c-erLL something of a niche weapon for extreme range.

I could agree with that. They do have craptacular DPS.

WarHippy, on 06 January 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

Not agreeing or disagreeing with the OP, but he did say IS LPL vs CLPL ghost heat and you are comparing LL to CLPL.

The IS LL and cLPL are a much close comparison than the cLPL and IS LPL. The IS LPL more closely compares to the cMPL in damage, heat, and range.

[kapusta11]

Tyler Valentine, on 06 January 2016 - 12:01 PM, said:

I disagree with the OP, I think it should be 2CLL vs 3ISLL but, to be fair, you can't just put the stats next to each other because we play with vastly different heat sinks. IS mechs have such a high heat cap that total heat generated by a given weapon system will be a smaller percentage of the total heat needed to induce shutdown.

I always try to be fair in my balance discussions but I notice that the vast majority of IS players don't bring up the changes to heat sinks...

In order to match heat cap of IS mechs with 20 DHS clan mechs need to have 24. 4 additional heat sinks that take only 2 ctits with all the weight savings clans have access to is not that big of a deal to be honest.

WarHippy, on 06 January 2016 - 12:10 PM, said:

Not agreeing or disagreeing with the OP, but he did say IS LPL vs CLPL ghost heat and you are comparing LL to CLPL.

Why would you even compare those two? They have very little in common beside name and essentially serve different purpose.

Edited by kapusta11, 06 January 2016 - 12:26 PM.

[Alistair Winter]

If I see more Timber Wolves spamming CERLLs or LPLs from their shoulder mounts, I'm going to vomit and poop at the same time.

Maybe worry more about other weapons instead of always talking about lasers?

[Chuck Jager]

I always thought the clan 2lpl the best value meal available even with ghost heat.

It is easy to squeeze in extra heatsinks or drop 1cmlas for a very easy to maintain heat or just run hot with an incredible alpha.

Clan also has the advantage to mix match pods to locate best config for less spread damage. So 2-3 over quirked IS mechs would be met by 5-10 Clan builds that could utilize the change in weapon values.

I think Clan players have gotten very used to not having to bring the most OP mechs for the situation When the IS gets some mechs that work better in one area Clanners forget that their mech still does very well on the rest of the map. This is more true in quick drops than CW. I think a little more discipline in mech selection and builds (like the IS is forced into) would go a long way for CW.

The real secret to winning over 95% of CW matches is 12 men on VoiP of variable skill levels with one good caller and concentrated pushes without sniping. If you are complaining that IS has better laser snipers find as many folks to drop with who will get on comms and gather and push. On defense have the caller/leader make everyone hold their fire until the other team is in your base. The sniping game isa signs that the match is for the birds.