97 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Anyone know?

I'm ready for some change.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 09 January 2016 - 07:17 PM.

[Mystere]

Didn't people kibosh the ideas in PTS3?

[Alistair Winter]

Mystere, on 09 January 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

Didn't people kibosh the ideas in PTS3?

I think people just kiboshed the ghost range. Lasers doing less damage when you don't have target locks.

I hope they didn't kibosh everything. A Locust shouldn't be as easy to detect as a Dire Wolf.

[Mcgral18]

Alistair Winter, on 09 January 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

I think people just kiboshed the ghost range. Lasers doing less damage when you don't have target locks.

I hope they didn't kibosh everything. A Locust shouldn't be as easy to detect as a Dire Wolf.

Jesus Box implementation depending...things could get fucky.

As it stands, it quarters your effective sensor range ('targetingfactor="0.25"')
Throw in dynamic sensor ranges, one of my Cute Foxes had a ~350M sensor range. Under those rules, due to the above Magic Jesus Field, my Cute Fox couldn't target an Atlas DDC until I was under 90M. And something tells me, he won't be using PPCs.


That's what I'm hoping gets fixed...

Edited by Mcgral18, 09 January 2016 - 07:27 PM.

[El Bandito]

PAUL--Change we can't believe in.

Someone make a poster.

[Kjudoon]

They need to reverse the whole thing from how far away something can see to how far away something can be detected. It works vreat for WWOWS. Th3 problem will be in the fact these maps are still miniscule and dont do well with scale at times.

[Xetelian]

No thank you. Making ECM just a minor annoyance would be too much of a buff to LRMs.
The different radar ranges would probably be a heavy nerf to bigger LRM mechs. I don't think this balances out with the ECM changes at all.


I don't think it makes sense that a DWF would have less radar range than an ACH, if I read the changes correctly, I don't believe that bigger mechs would have crappy radar while little mechs have supreme range.

While I don't think that makes sense I can totally understand the ideas backing the initial changes. Putting light mechs into a better role would be very good. Won't make them any more popular to pilot in a game based around how much damage you do during a match.

Edited by Xetelian, 09 January 2016 - 07:42 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Making ECM just a minor annoyance would be too much of a buff to LRMs.

Or you could just nerf ECM so it doesnt hard counter missiles and then balance LRMS properly, making them not good at indirect fire at all, unless the target is TAGGED OR NARCD.


As for info warfare... I wanna see the following changes:

ECM- should no longer hard counter missiles (i.e. no aoe super stealth and no lockon prevention). ECM would just counter electronics and double lockon time. ECM would also get a third mode called Ghost Mode which would create false radar contacts to spoof the enemy. Ghost ECM mode would require a module in order to use it.

BAP- should no longer hard counter ECM. BAP instead gets 360 detection and can detect ALL enemy mechs within 120m regardless of line of sight (can see behind you, through buildings, through terrain, etc...). Having BAP would also let you use seismic probe consumables (youd get 2 seismic probes per consumable slot). The probes would have a duration of 30-45s like UAVs and could also be destroyed (either by shooting or possibly even walking over them)

Active/Passive sensor modes - Active sensors would work exactly like sensors do now. While passive sensors would turn off detailed target into and lockons in exchange for making you harder to detect.

Sensor detection by size archetype - the size archetype of the mech would determine the range the mech gets detected at by sensors.

Tiny - 400m
Small - 500m
Medium - 600m
Large - 700m
Huge - 800m

Possible damage penalty for not having a target lock - Possibly add a 20%-30% damage penalty to ALL weapons if the target isnt locked-on. Yes I know this probably isnt popular but it WOULD make sensors and locking onto enemies much more important and it SHOULD be important.

Unique skill trees for each weight class - we definitely need this to emphasize the strengths of each weight class and develop role warfare. Also it would help buff assaults back to where they need to be by rightfully restoring their combat superiority over heavies.

Edited by Khobai, 09 January 2016 - 08:03 PM.

[Sigilum Sanctum]

Info tech is meaningless short of PVE situations where we're granted multi-kilometer sized maps with multiple objectives, factions, bases, etc.

Then scouts, UAVs and what not would have a vastly superior role.

[VinJade]

a real buff to LRMs?
what are you smoking?
any mech with one or two AMS can trash almost an entire flight of LRMs....

[pbiggz]

Xetelian, on 09 January 2016 - 07:39 PM, said:

No thank you. Making ECM just a minor annoyance would be too much of a buff to LRMs.
The different radar ranges would probably be a heavy nerf to bigger LRM mechs. I don't think this balances out with the ECM changes at all.


I don't think it makes sense that a DWF would have less radar range than an ACH, if I read the changes correctly, I don't believe that bigger mechs would have crappy radar while little mechs have supreme range.

While I don't think that makes sense I can totally understand the ideas backing the initial changes. Putting light mechs into a better role would be very good. Won't make them any more popular to pilot in a game based around how much damage you do during a match.

LRMS NEED A BUFF JESUS

justification: LRMS were meant to interact with info warfare, but as we are discussing here, info warfare doesn't exist, thus we have an effectively gimped non-fire and for get weapon.

LRMs should be fire and forget without minimum range and no shared targetting, YOU get your locks, and close combat options with lrms should be mitigated by doing what living legends did, making them curve upwards after they fire, no matter what you have targetting; they always try to fire in an arc.

That being said, we have lots of pieces of info warfare that are in the game now. Shared targetting, narc, ecm, bap, lrms, all things that dont exactly work as intended because they barely interact with each other, or if they do, they dont do it right. But we'll never see real info warfare, because;

El Bandito, on 09 January 2016 - 07:33 PM, said:

PAUL--Change we can't believe in.

Someone make a poster.

Edited by pbiggz, 09 January 2016 - 07:47 PM.

[KrazedOmega]

Hopefully never.

[Kjudoon]

Wow. The "Me like hokky fites" philosophy is strong here.

[Alistair Winter]

So I guess the response is:

• Nobody knows
  
• The first attempt by PGI to add more complexity in gameplay since 2013 was shot down

That's... disappoint.

Also kind of funny how the players can never decide if LRMs are OP or not even "minimally viable".

Mcgral18, on 09 January 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

Jesus Box implementation depending...things could get fucky.
As it stands, it quarters your effective sensor range ('targetingfactor="0.25"')
Throw in dynamic sensor ranges, one of my Cute Foxes had a ~350M sensor range. Under those rules, due to the above Magic Jesus Field, my Cute Fox couldn't target an Atlas DDC until I was under 90M. And something tells me, he won't be using PPCs.
That's what I'm hoping gets fixed...

Yeah, there was definitely room for improvement. Sometimes the actual ranges involved were ridiculous. Some of the unlucky light mechs couldn't detect enemy mechs that were almost nose to nose with them, which made hit and run attacks fairly difficult on maps where you couldn't use heat vision.

But the idea was good. It just needed tweaking.

[Davers]

AFAIK PGI kinda scrapped what they had and went back to the drawing board for IW. I don't think we will hear about it for a long while.

[Kjudoon]

Too many "influential"opinions dont want more complexity. They want less. Even rock papers scissors is too much to ask for.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 09 January 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

Anyone know?

I'm ready for some change.

when the tryhards stop QQing over anything that makes them have to do more than mash pixels?

[Kjudoon]

You know Bish... There are times when you are the crappiest white knight ever.


I like you.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kjudoon, on 09 January 2016 - 08:36 PM, said:

You know Bish... There are times when you are the crappiest white knight ever.


I like you.

well, one of my greatest amusements here in the forums is the irony of my siggy... and how many idjits actualyl think I am a white knight... simply cuz I ain't a black one.

[MechaBattler]

Probably effing never. The amount of diaper filling that occurred during the PTS pretty much buried the idea of change.

That's why we have fat quirks. Because people didn't want something "complex". Which was laughable in it's level of complexity. People just didn't want their "favorite thing" to change.