48 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Almost right.

I will have the engine from my urbie in it and it'll be dual gauss and 4lls, but that looks about right.

[Ultimax]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 January 2016 - 11:50 AM, said:

Minus one 5-class ballistic is half? More like only missing 16.67%, looking at alpha damage alone.

No, it doesn't jump, but the EBJ can ridge-poke like a king, which is functionally identical if less optimal.

The entire point of the 2x AC 5 + 2x PPC build is extreme efficiency.

And that build isn't strong enough vs. lasers builds.


So you're using a less efficient version of a build that itself isn't even competitive right now - and you're using it on a mech that by it's model design is almost unable to actually use a shield side.


But yeah, I know "it works" for you in the solo queue. Just like all of the other pet builds people play and swear up and down by.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 10 January 2016 - 12:42 PM.

[Alwrathandabout42ninjas]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 January 2016 - 09:12 AM, said:

What's the over/under line for that being the "MetaHammer"?

(And yes, I was throwing up in my mouth as I photshopped it)

All of my PPC builds run the PPC's in the arms, unless you get a really nice height advantage in the torso. Arms give you pinpoint accuracy so if your good you hit the section of the enemy mech you want to hit. Also you can shoot targets above you. For this mech there really is no advantage for putting them in the torso. Only noobs will end up doing it, which sadly is alot of the population. Hopefully they read this.

[Y E O N N E]

Ultimatum X, on 10 January 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

The entire point of the 2x AC 5 + 2x PPC build is extreme efficiency.

And that build isn't strong enough vs. lasers builds.


So you're using a less efficient version of a build that itself isn't even competitive right now - and you're using it on a mech that by it's model design is almost unable to actually use a shield side.


But yeah, I know "it works" for you in the solo queue. Just like all of the other pet builds people play and swear up and down by.

Works in group queue and CW, too.

Actually, so did twin ERPPCs alone. On a K2. Back when Clans actually were OP. A mere twin PPCs also still works on the Blackjack...which also cannot shield...and has worked quite well even before the mega-buff. I also had a Dragon that I ran with only two PPCs, and it wasn't half-bad. Twin Gauss on a Jager or EBJ is another build in the same vein that has its place.

Shield side is overrated because as soon as you want to fire, you have to face me anyway, and, if you are using lasers, you have to sit there and let it burn.

:|

Unless you are playing at the tippy tippy top, you don't need the absolute most efficient thing ever. You just have to have something that isn't completely stupid and know how to use it well.

[Bishop Steiner]

Ultimatum X, on 10 January 2016 - 12:41 PM, said:

The entire point of the 2x AC 5 + 2x PPC build is extreme efficiency.

And that build isn't strong enough vs. lasers builds.


So you're using a less efficient version of a build that itself isn't even competitive right now - and you're using it on a mech that by it's model design is almost unable to actually use a shield side.


But yeah, I know "it works" for you in the solo queue. Just like all of the other pet builds people play and swear up and down by.

Been working mine in the group queue of late, too, still trending upward on the slopes of mt tryhard. Might take me longer to get there, but I'm having a lot more fun getting there my way than the copypasta way.

[Bishop Steiner]

Kristian Radoulov, on 10 January 2016 - 11:30 AM, said:

I'm running mine near-to-stock. Meta tryhards be damned, I'll still poop on them. /warhammerswag

amen.

I got Thuds and such if I feel a need for an uber serious "meta match" Mech. My Whammies will be driven for Joy, and built correctly, and my biggest joy will be slagging tryhards in their silly Metahammers.

Yeonne Greene, on 10 January 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

Unless you are playing at the tippy tippy top, you don't need the absolute most efficient thing ever. You just have to have something that isn't completely stupid and know how to use it well.

[Pariah Devalis]

Deadsiding is such a liability, anyhow. Remember the 2 ERPPC Gauss TBR? Yeah. I bet they were ecstatic when their gauss blew, taking the arm with it. Suddenly they had the combat effectiveness of a god damned paperweight. It was a fun past time for me, actually. Like a minigame.

First thing I go for when I am in a dual gauss or a UAC based build is the meaty side torso containing most of the firepower. Even if you somehow manage to beat me, you're gonna have a bad time, m'kay? Plus, while you are forced to present only one side to absorb damage, my entire mech can be used as a sponge. Armor rolling OP, after all. And if I lose a side? T'sok. At least I'm not a paperweight - but you are!

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 January 2016 - 02:22 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 January 2016 - 02:18 PM, said:

Deadsiding is such a liability, anyhow. Remember the 2 ERPPC Gauss TBR? Yeah.

The build that was considered worse than the Victor until the PPCs got nerfed and laser vomit rose to prominence?
Deadsiding with a Gauss in the torso is liability, but that is about it.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 10 January 2016 - 02:26 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 10 January 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

The build that was considered worse than the Victor until the PPCs got nerfed and laser vomit rose to prominence?
Deadsiding with a Gauss in the torso is liability, but that is about it.

The mech was prevalent as all hell, and a juicy target. Nowadays I just rip the left torso off of thunderbolts and laugh. Or the right arm on Wolverines. If you build it deadside, I will strip you. All it takes is firing discipline and shooting when the target presents itself, as opposed to shooting just to damage the enemy mech.

Part of what makes close ranged Atlas a bit problematic now is that since SRMs are actually in a good spot, in a brawl both side torsos in an AC20, multi-SRM6 build are dangerous. Cannot go for the quick disable with them anymore.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 January 2016 - 02:30 PM.

[reign]

Black widow (probably 3x with lasers as backup) but this is probably the mech we will see.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 January 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

The mech was prevalent as all hell, and a juicy target. Nowadays I just rip the left torso off of thunderbolts and laugh. Or the right arm on Wolverines. If you build it deadside, I will strip you. All it takes is firing discipline and shooting when the target presents itself, as opposed to shooting just to damage the enemy mech.

Part of what makes close ranged Atlas a bit problematic now is that since SRMs are actually in a good spot, in a brawl both side torsos in an AC20, multi-SRM6 build are dangerous. Cannot go for the quick disable with them anymore.

in most cases, right side on an atlas still. that hard capped 270 meters range makes those SRMss a lot less an issue in anything but facehugger matches, IMO.

[Pariah Devalis]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 January 2016 - 02:32 PM, said:

in most cases, right side on an atlas still. that hard capped 270 meters range makes those SRMss a lot less an issue in anything but facehugger matches, IMO.

Oh for sure, if you have the range that right torso has got to go. However, if you round a corner and stare at an atlas, it's a much harder decision to make. That firepower can't be ignored, and the durability of a 120 ton mech can't be burned through fast enough from center-punching alone.

[Haakon Magnusson]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 January 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

I got Thuds and such if I feel a need for an uber serious "meta match" Mech. My Whammies will be driven for Joy, and built correctly, and my biggest joy will be slagging tryhards in their silly Metahammers.

I just dropped the AC5 and upgraded mediums to lpls... But at least it's got PPCs in each arm love my MAD

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 January 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

The mech was prevalent as all hell, and a juicy target.

Prevalence does not mean the mech was good.

Pariah Devalis, on 10 January 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

Nowadays I just rip the left torso off of thunderbolts and laugh. Or the right arm on Wolverines.

The Wolverine lost some much needed structure buffs and the Thud was always kinda meh. The BJ-3, GRF-3M, and QKD-4G however all are asymmetric and are some of the best mechs, they just all run XLs or don't rely on just the limb.

Pariah Devalis, on 10 January 2016 - 02:26 PM, said:

Part of what makes close ranged Atlas a bit problematic now is that since SRMs are actually in a good spot, in a brawl both side torsos in an AC20, multi-SRM6 build are dangerous. Cannot go for the quick disable with them anymore.

It is a bit different for assaults than it is for other mechs since they tend to have and draw so much firepower and run standard engines (or Clan XL).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 10 January 2016 - 02:37 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Haakon Magnusson, on 10 January 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

I just dropped the AC5 and upgraded mediums to lpls... But at least it's got PPCs in each arm love my MAD

yeah dorsal canon not as big a thing on a mad for me as the PPCs, plus... cannon on the MAD looks wonky anyhow

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 10 January 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

Prevalence does not mean the mech was good.


The Wolverine lost some much needed structure buffs and the Thud was always kinda meh. The BJ-3, GRF-3M, and QKD-4G however all are asymmetric and are some of the best mechs, they just all run XLs or don't rely on just the limb.

Yeah.. the benefit of deadsiding is being able to literally use a dead side to absorb the damage and reduce the damage transfer to adjacent torsos. Any mech that uses an XL outside of a Clan mech can't really deadside as a result. Instead, it loses a side and dies. Kinda defeats the purpose of an asym build at that point. Sure it might make poking a corner from a specific, fixed direction easier, but you conversely lose the flexibility of being able to poke a corner from the other direction easily, too.

Edit: I suppose convergence might be a factor, too, but with arm lock and lasers... not exactly a problem here. No need to lead.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 January 2016 - 02:40 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 January 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

Yeah.. the benefit of deadsiding is being able to literally use a dead side to absorb the damage and reduce the damage transfer to adjacent torsos. Any mech that uses an XL outside of a Clan mech can't really deadside as a result. Instead, it loses a side and dies. Kinda defeats the purpose of an asym build at that point. Sure it might make poking a corner from a specific, fixed direction easier, but you conversely lose the flexibility of being able to poke a corner from the other direction easily, too.

it's why I prefer a good dead arm to a dead side.

And why i shake my head at people who strip armor of the shield arm of Centies, Banshees, BLRs...... the thing can tank more with armor people.....

I've forcefed so many people my Centies left arm that Corean had to open up a left arm production line just to ship to me.....

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 10 January 2016 - 02:41 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 January 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

it's why I prefer a good dead arm to a dead side.

And why i shake my head at people who strip armor of the shield arm of Centies, Banshees, BLRs...... the thing can tank more with armor people.....

I've forcefed so many people my Centies left arm that Corean had to open up a left arm production line just to ship to me.....

My tech must hate me. I've also lost count of the times I have been focused upon by one or two mechs, only for them to die to my team's fire and I manage to survive. One component no matter what it is can only take so much damage before it breaks. My entire mech, however, rolling damage across as many arm and torso components as possible? You'll be at that for a while, trying to get through all that armor. The number of games I end at sub 40% HP is frightening.

[Bishop Steiner]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 January 2016 - 02:49 PM, said:

My tech must hate me. I've also lost count of the times I have been focused upon by one or two mechs, only for them to die to my team's fire and I manage to survive. One component no matter what it is can only take so much damage before it breaks. My entire mech, however, rolling damage across as many arm and torso components as possible? You'll be at that for a while, trying to get through all that armor. The number of games I end at sub 40% HP is frightening.

sounds like my HBK.... long as I keep my RT mostly intact, the rest of my mech is just grist for the mill.

Not uncommon to be out of ammo, and pewpewing away with my head laser, or once in awhile head and one arm, lol. Long as my teams win, I get 500+ dmg and a couple kills, I'm happy. My tech on the other hand, I hear put a bounty on me..... (silly guy hasn't figure out it's just more work for him whenever I kill the guy trying to collect it!)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Bishop Steiner, on 10 January 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

it's why I prefer a good dead arm to a dead side.

And why i shake my head at people who strip armor of the shield arm of Centies, Banshees, BLRs...... the thing can tank more with armor people.....

Depends on the skill level you go against, all three mechs you mentioned still have a bad habit of getting CT'd.

Pariah Devalis, on 10 January 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

Yeah.. the benefit of deadsiding is being able to literally use a dead side to absorb the damage and reduce the damage transfer to adjacent torsos. Any mech that uses an XL outside of a Clan mech can't really deadside as a result.

The overwhelming problem with deadsiding hasn't really been how vulnerable it is to getting stripped, it is that requires a STD engine to do it, which for a lot of mechs is the major liability over the deadside.

Clan mechs are a bit different since being able to deadside well is highly dependent on hitboxes, which are all over the place on the Clan side, but even things like the Hellbringer tend to be really strong despite usually using a deadside because of the value of being able to side poke well.