48 replies to this topic

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 10 January 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

Depends on the skill level you go against, all three mechs you mentioned still have a bad habit of getting CT'd.

The overwhelming problem with deadsiding hasn't really been how vulnerable it is to getting stripped, it is that requires a STD engine to do it, which for a lot of mechs is the major liability over the deadside.

Clan mechs are a bit different since being able to deadside well is highly dependent on hitboxes, which are all over the place on the Clan side, but even things like the Hellbringer tend to be really strong despite usually using a deadside because of the value of being able to side poke well.

To be fair, the Hellbringer does not have much choice when it comes to deadsiding. The Right Torso is rendered just a DHS array. The overwhelming problem has been survival related, with deadsiding, yes. The overwhelming majority of pilots in this game, however, wouldn't know how to hit a target, let alone lead a target, if it stood still. There's also the patience thing, which is severely lacking in quantity. Countering deadside just requires good aim and being willing to wait until the target presents the torso to you.

Against competent enemy players, it is disgusting how quickly my HBR can be largely defanged. It's why I actually do keep lasers in the opposite arm.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 January 2016 - 02:59 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 January 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

Against competent enemy players, it is disgusting how quickly my HBR can be largely defanged. It's why I actually do keep lasers in the opposite arm.

Then you either aren't poking smart (poking against multiple enemies, expecting you to be around there), or you aren't doing enough damage to punish them for poking against you. The Hellbringer is still one of the best heavies in the game partially because it can side poke (and hill poke as well) with decent alphas.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 10 January 2016 - 03:08 PM.

[Ultimax]

Yeonne Greene, on 10 January 2016 - 01:11 PM, said:

Unless you are playing at the tippy tippy top, you don't need the absolute most efficient thing ever. You just have to have something that isn't completely stupid and know how to use it well.

The guys I play with might not be the tippy top, but they aren't that far down from it either (many are clearly better than me).


Against rainbow pugs and lower skilled teams you either run what is really effective, or you find yourself at the bottom of the scoreboard because everything is dead quickly.

Against really good teams, and top teams, you either run what is really effective or end up at a disadvantage.



I had a friend that came back to the game after almost a year off, a guy who is consistently better than me.

He was having a blast in the solo queue, making his way up the tiers - telling me how much he couldn't get into Gauss or Laser builds and was doing great with his dakka builds.

Eventually, after many team games and solo games and working his way to T1 he started to do worse, and worse in his dakka builds - that's because sometimes a build's effectiveness isn't totally based on you its also based on your opponents.


Now he plays meta-builds and is back to putting up consistently excellent numbers.


YMMV.

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 10 January 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

Then you either aren't poking smart, or you aren't doing enough damage to punish them for poking against you. The Hellbringer is still one of the best heavies in the game partially because it can side poke with decent alphas.

No matter how you slice it, Clan burn durations are longer than IS. I will lose a trade against an equally skilled IS pilot with a similar build in a mutually effective firing range. Long range fight? IS LLas burn faster than Clan LPLas, and IS LPlas even faster than that. Don't even bring Clan ERLLas into the picture, here. Up close? CMPLas burn longer than ISMPLas, as well, meaning my required time to face is longer than theirs. Toss on quirks, and not only are their burn durations are shorter but they have more structural durability where I do focus them.

And that's just laser based enemies. How about brawlers that chuck a lot of front loaded damage? Or Gauss based mechs that put focused fire on a single point? It only takes a tiny window for them to hit you where you don't want them to.

Note, this is not an IS op thing. Not at all. This is demonstrating the built in flaw with deadside designs. All your eggs are in one basket, and eventually you are required to show that basket to the enemy. I mean, you do intend to shoot back at some point, right? Pilot skill overrides deadside advantage in my experience. Period.

Try ripping one side torso off on my EBJ, now. Goodie, you might have destroyed my side torso, but I still have guns, and what I've been blasting so far? It will fall off in short order, and I'll still have guns left. The power of symmetrical builds offensively. Defensively? I can afford to let damage touch both side torsos and arms. I actually want that to happen. It means no one part of my mech will break prematurely.

TL;DR: There are very real benefits to symmetrical builds, just like there are advantages to asymmetrical ones. Aim, intelligence, and circumstance play big rolls in what is better for a given situation. For me? I don't like putting all my eggs in one basket. The risk is not worth it.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 January 2016 - 03:19 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pariah Devalis, on 10 January 2016 - 03:14 PM, said:

Long range fight? IS LLas burn faster than Clan LPLas, and IS LPlas even faster than that.

Which is why you always have a heavier alpha, that is the only thing keeping Clans competitive. That said, while QKD-4Gs are amazing, EBJ and HBRs serve a different role since they are about equal in terms of squishiness but both the EBJ and HBR have more stopping power, which can be important in matches.

Either way, it isn't all bad, but as far as C-ERLLs go, something does need to be done with them because the IS-ERLLs on some of the quirked mechs can demolish C-ERLL boats, maybe they could finally get their 810m range back to help compensate (not sure whether that would really change anything, but it would be a start).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 10 January 2016 - 03:23 PM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 10 January 2016 - 03:21 PM, said:

Which is why you always have a heavier alpha, that is the only thing keeping Clans competitive. That said, while QKD-4Gs are amazing, EBJ and HBRs serve a different role since they are about equal in terms of squishiness but both the EBJ and HBR have more stopping power, which can be important in matches.

Either way, it isn't all bad, but as far as C-ERLLs go, something does need to be done with them because the IS-ERLLs on some of the quirked mechs can destroy C-ERLL boats, maybe they could finally get their range back to help compensate.

Either range, or upping that ghost heat cap back to 3. Or alternatively slightly reducing the burn duration from sustained lightsaber to something a little less obnoxious. It... it needs help. About the only mech I can stand it on is the SHC because of the burn duration quirks, and I don't fool myself into thinking those are enough to be significant.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 10 January 2016 - 03:26 PM.

[Nauht]

This is why I want/need my PSR to stop. I exclusively pug but I'm ever creeping towards T2....

I thoroughly enjoy playing my MAD as close to stock as I can without any pressure in the solo queue.

Absolutely not interested in getting into the higher tiers only to hear the inevitable metards coming over voice comms.

[SkaerKrow]

Don't worry, down here at Tier V that missile pack will remain, filled with LRMs.

[MechaBattler]

If they would assign quirks to hard points, they could give PPC quirks specifically to the arms. Then give it crazy missile quirks. Like 50% range, quasi-MRMs, betch.