18 replies to this topic

[Ted Wayz]

Was trying to figure out why I get a ton of assists, respectable damage but not a plethora of kills. My guess is it is a combination of loadouts and playstyle.

So while I work on my playstyle let's talk about weapons. How would you classify weapons into the three categories, Suppress-Damage-Kill?

For me Missiles fall into all three. I can use them to suppress, but for the most part I use them to great efficiency to damage and kill.

How would you classify different weapons?

[MeiSooHaityu]

I would think missile and high DPS ballistics (like A/C2 and A/C5s) are the suppression weapons with high DPS, high damage, lower kills (in general).

Large FLD weapons like large ballistics (A/C20, Gauss, A/C10) are good kill weapons. Also when grouped with PPCs/ERPPCs. High FLD doesn't really suppress since people don't see/feel it taking a toll (and driving under cover). Normally with these weapons your ST is there one minute, and gone the next.

Lasers can fall under multiple. Just depends on how many are being boated and the ranges. 2 ERLLasers in a Raven may be better for suppression, but group 2 or 3 LPLasers with a Gauss or big ballistic, then the damage/kill type of loadout comes about. Also, if you boat 6 or 8 MPLasers, I'd say Kill, but maybe 6 MLasers are more damage values and possibly suppression.

Really it depends on how certain weapons are equipped/utilized. I could see the above being a reasonable approximation though.

[Bilbo]

It's not necessarily the weapons themselves. Since I almost never use alpha strikes, I tend to have the same problem as you. I open them up and someone else actually finishes them. Doesn't really matter anymore, because the scoring and payout doesn't overly bias kills anymore.

[PFC Carsten]

Ted Wayz, on 11 January 2016 - 08:40 AM, said:

Was trying to figure out why I get a ton of assists, respectable damage but not a plethora of kills. My guess is it is a combination of loadouts and playstyle.

Same here. I get kills in Firestarter/Arctic Cheaters just fine, but anything else I regularly play is assists, assists and assists. I guess since I absolutely suck in anything above 55 tons, I am predestined to harrassing and sniping or playing killer-lights.

[adamts01]

Lasers lasers lasers.

Supression: Nothing says suppression like tearing off a ST. Plink Plink from an AC2... I'll laugh that off while I dish out 61 points of Lasers to your CT. try again

Damage: LRMs... Please.... You: "here's my CT, I'll keep showing it to you because I have to hold this lock."
Me:" oh no, of your 60 points of damage, 30 managed to catch me absolutely everywhere, while I dished out 61 to your CT. Your spotter? I 1-shot that raven 2 minutes ago."

Kill: How about 61 points of damage right where I want it out to 440m?

Lasers are king. It sucks that the opposition is so far behind. LRMs and daka scare noobs, but don't fool yourselves that they're better than Moar Lasers.

[John Archer]

This will read as a horrible meta gamer statement. My apologies in advance.

The secret is.... kill stealing.

Yep... join the masses. Load up a pulse laser boat. Hang back and pot shot when you can. As soon as you see a mech that is about to die...run in and alpha strike said mech.

Honestly, this is what I have observed time and time again in matches. Yes, it gives you kills...but IMHO, it trashes any gaming etiquette you may have.

[Hotthedd]

John Archer, on 11 January 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

The secret is... kill stealing.

In a team game, there is no such thing as "kill stealing". Kill stealing implies a ME, MY, MINE attitude that does not mesh with team play.

Once you can accept this, the rest will follow in due course.

[Davegt27]

They use some weird terminology on MWO for categorizing weapons for example

Like front loaded weapon I keep thinking flint lock but I haven’t figured it out yet

[sceii]

I prefer to stay on my targets until they are completly dead.

[adamts01]

Hotthedd, on 11 January 2016 - 09:51 AM, said:

In a team game, there is no such thing as "kill stealing". Kill stealing implies a ME, MY, MINE attitude that does not mesh with team play.

Once you can accept this, the rest will follow in due course.

I've spectated mechs waiting to fire on a weak mech till his buddy was killed by it because he was waiting for the last shred of armor to be gone. That's not playing a "team game."

sceii, on 11 January 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

I prefer to stay on my targets until they are completly dead.

I stay on it till there's a bigger threat or its a stick. If it's a stick, the whole team will abandon the front line to chase it off a hill, so it'll die anyway and someone needs to keep fighting.... Stupid pugs.

[Ghogiel]

direct fire is definitely the best for supression, if an angle is locked down with 150-200 dmg alphas from a lance, you don't want to peek second on that or you enter a high risk low reward play. It's also the best counter to lrms, as the best places to poke from are often the best places to counter lurms from as well.If you replaced that lance with 4 lurm boats, the player could just step back and dodge the lurms, might even do a decent bit of dmg by firing back.

pp direct fire is best effective dmg. If you can aim. At lower tiers I think the effective dmg becomes closer between lurms and lasers for example. If the aim is too often laser washy, then the fairly substantial benefits of pp direct fires effective dmg over missiles drops off a lot. If it's a game where nearly everyone will put dmg where they want while under high pressure, missiles can't get a look in. But generally the dmg on missiles is spread, and more often earns component destroyed, and therefore effective dmg should be considered lower, basically those bloat the dmg numbers too often and are inefficent if not good for farming cbills at lower tiers.

Kills, well a large alpha high mounted laser spam probably will beat out anything with travel time like lurms. Srms are good for kills, but I think their short range and the dmg mitigation on poke playing make lasers and something like dual gauss best for getting the gibs.

Edited by Ghogiel, 11 January 2016 - 11:00 AM.

[Ted Wayz]

So where would people put the MG? You really shouldn't use them until the enemy is opened up and you are crit seeking therefore kill weapon. But some nubs seem absolutely terrified by them, therefore suppression. Definitely not a damage weapon.

I do find SRMs are now good for damage now. And clan streaks seem fairly effective at getting kills.

[Troutmonkey]

The trick is to constantly cycle through targets and look for weakened enemies. That medium hanging out near the back? He's there because he's cherry red. Sure that Dire seems like a good target, but that hunchback can still dish it out and will die sooner.

The other trick is to no use LRMs. They do lots of damage, but they do it everywhere and not to the parts that need to be hit the most. Always shoot for the weak parts first, and make a mental note of all the mechs that usually carry XL engines.

[RockmachinE]

Generally speaking.

Suppress would be high rate cockpit shake type weapons such as LRM5s, AC2s

Damage weapons are a little harder to determine as anything can be a damage weapon if boated or used properly, but generally Lasers and similar.

Kill weapons would be high PPFLD like AC20s or even pulse lasers.

That being said, more weapons fit into more categories and its ultimately how you use them as much as their nature.

[LordNothing]

im of the opinion that lrms and smaller dakka (2,5,10) are great supression weapons. either will turn an assault mech into a 100 ton pile of jelly almost instantly. that is to say that 100 ton war machine will be cowering behind a rock even though you arent really doing a ton of damage in a small amount of time.

while energy weapons seem to dominate both the damage and kill departments, other weapons like srms are pretty good at inflicting a lot of damage very quickly, streaks if you cant lead, srms if you can. though i often find myself firing them at red cored enemies with little effect.

in the department of kills lasers are the best. ppcs (especially the clan ppc with its splash) often get the kill when they are equipped with other weapons, of course at that stage in the fight its hard to find the space in your heat bar to discharge it. heavy ballistics are good here, ac20 or gauss. anything with crit potential (lb, machine guns, and now the ac2) is great for that final shot into an armorless target.

of course all things fair, i think ive got kills with everything that arent flamers.

Edited by LordNothing, 12 January 2016 - 04:50 AM.

[Almond Brown]

A lot of it comes down to when you encounter any particular Mech during a Battle. Early on, everyone is heavily armored and can trade with what they have, best to avoid the really heavy hitters early. Pressing R works great for that btw. LOL

Then, if you want to help team mate(s) hold an area and the enemy is fluid, then assists come in bunches as your group moves as well hitting what comes and goes from your ever changing field of view, then eventually it is end game time. The weakest will go down first (be there... or be square), as many will not fall back but go out blazing with what they have left, and he/she who hits first and hardest often get those Kills.

The one thing I see the most when spectating is Mechs with huge Alpha's but they shut down after 2 volleys and then cannot cool long enough to do anything really useful with out Over-Heating after Over-Heat and in the end die in pretty good shape right up until their CT goes away or senselessly.

So, stay alive and fighting with whatever you brung, as best you can, and come end game time, you will get a share... More in some Matches than others but it seems to balance out pretty well.

Edited by Almond Brown, 12 January 2016 - 10:42 AM.

[ReemusX]

I run King Crab with a x3 L.Laser with topped armor and engine...all heat sinks. I run on chain fire and never overheat. Damage is good and love using it to bust up some legs. Maxed engine really makes it dance nicely against the other assaults and helps a LOT with keeping the lights from my backside. Sometimes I run a x4 L.Laser but depends...

Edited by ReemusX, 12 January 2016 - 10:41 AM.

[Dino Might]

Ted Wayz, on 11 January 2016 - 02:27 PM, said:

So where would people put the MG? You really shouldn't use them until the enemy is opened up and you are crit seeking therefore kill weapon. But some nubs seem absolutely terrified by them, therefore suppression. Definitely not a damage weapon.

I do find SRMs are now good for damage now. And clan streaks seem fairly effective at getting kills.

Who uses MGs? I don't even carry them on my LCT-PB.

[Chuck Jager]

Look at shoulders and legs if in the heat of battle.
Any and all clan mechs (except for the hybrid Cs) will die if they are missing a shoulder and shoot the other. If it is an XL IS mech it will die if you shoot a shoulder off. Non XL mechs usually loose half their weapons (usually not always - this is a rule of thumb). No mech can survive the loss of 2 legs.

Many mechs have to carry ammo in their shoulders and legs because of lack of space elsewhere (more Clan in shoulders than IS)

Last but not least, hit reg can be an issue the more folks in the fray. I find if I am shooting at the shoulder, I will at least get something.

Very good payers know the mechs and builds very well, and they have the ability to read the paper doll while in combat and place their shots accordingly. You can try and work towards this. I would say I get 25-50% of kills just finishing off a leg or a shoulder while folks just spray. Also peekers continually expose either legs or shoulders while poking and by taking out half of their mobility or firepower, you will help your team win. Wins always provide more kills for everybody to fight over.

The real fun way to get kills is if you know your team is loosing or you have more than 3 people on you and ZERO chance of back up, just set to over ride and keep up the alpha on the easiest target. I can usually get 1kill before I go down and it is worth about an extra 100-200 damage. Also having 1/2 of the enemy team go out of position and then be denied a kill (while I am engaging as per TOS) is sometimes the only victory I can squeeze out of a game.

Try to be smart not timid. Aggressive play as a group is best. Alpha as much as possible and reposition when hot. This keeps the other team from chasing your dorrito. Note On builds under 1.2 MWO heat scale I usually do break up weapons by side of the mech and place lrms/srms on QorE.

If you do not already know lock your target for info (I do unlock if we are winning by 3+ and the LRMs have sat in the back all game)