20 replies to this topic

[MrMadguy]

Ok, event is great. As I see, many players returned to game to play it (May be we should run it all the time, lol?), so overall quality of matches in a middle of Tier 3 became much better - I'm not punching bag for Tier 1 players in 99.99% matches any more, yeah. But... Playing 2-3 matches on crappy maps - is tolerable. But after 2-3 matches on crappy maps, especially if it was exactly the same map several times in a row - I have nothing to do, except hitting Alt-F4 and not returning to this game till the end of the day. Rotation, where exactly the same 4 crappy maps (something like Therma, Frozen, River, Caustic) are being forced on me all the time - isn't bearable, sorry.

P.S. Both Therma and Frozen - are new NASCAR maps. Yesterday enemies were running away from us for several minutes on Therma, while clearly seeing, that we were already behind them, lol. Isn't it against "avoiding engagement" non-participation rule? Same happens with Frozen - it causes 5-7 minutes waste of time, as it usually happens on Polar. I guess, that's because Frozen - is snipe fest map, but it's "the best of the worst" variant due to other forced maps being even more crappier. And when you're brawler, to push - is the only viable tactic there. And it causes NASCARing and idling after switching spawns, waiting for enemies to come, lol. Complete crap...

[Dr Wubs]

Yes? No?

Crappy maps or mappy crap?

I'm not sure, but you will have your answer at Mech Con!

[John1352]

Sounds like the maps aren't the problem, you're getting tired of playing Nascar Warrior Online. Here's my tip for you:

Stop, turn around and make it your sole objective to kill the first enemy mech who is "winning" the race. The more ridiculous your build is the better!

Diresneeze with SPLs, LBXs (various) and SRMs crammed in until you have a 120 point alpha? Perfect.

Banshee with AC20 + all the pulse lasers? BOOM WUB WUB WUB

King Crab with 2 AC20, 4 ASRM6, 4 MLs? Whoever comes around the corner first is having a bad day.

PS: OVERRIDE ENGAGED

[ice trey]

Anything that isn't HPG, Mining colony, or Crimson is a breath of fresh air.

I welcome variation.

[El Bandito]

Mordor is a NASCAR map? On which magical tier?

[MrMadguy]

I dunno, why nobody understands me. May be all players here play laser-vomit builds and some other Meta crap? There just 5 types of maps, I hate. And in all 5 cases my hate is reasonable - not just some "I don't like low visibility", "I hate red color" or "I play hot builds only, so I hate hot maps" kind of personal preference crap.

1) Meta maps. Yeah, when I play my 4xER-LL-vomit build - I like literally every map. Frozen? Ok. Alpine? No problem! Polar? River? Forest? Same thing! So that's when I usually don't care about map. But... I just don't want to always play this same build - I like to play some others too. We have MechLab and other weapons in this game for reason. And it's simply unfair, that only ONE single build can allow you to enjoy all maps in a game and others - don't. I would agree to play on all maps, if PGI would do something with this problem. For example there should be maps, where Snipe Meta sucks, as Brawler one sucks at LRM/Snipe Meta maps.
2) "Tunnel" maps - maps, where there is no variety of tactics. Such as Crimson for example. Where literally every match is played exactly the same way. Cuz any attempt to play it some some different way - is suicide. So after several hundreds of matches on that map you just get sick of it. When I drop on such a map, I usually have feeling, that I don't know, what to do... I want to play it some differently, but I know, that it's suicide. So I usually just brainlessly move forward along the "tunnel" and try to finish this borefest as quickly, as possible.
3) "Waste of time" maps. Sorry, but I log into game to actually play it - not to walk around maps. This is not [MMO]RPG, where wasting time - is major design concept. It's damn shooter! PVP game! If after 5-7 minutes match doesn't even start - my fingers start to automatically crawl towards Alt-F4. Simply because wasting >50% of time on non-playing activities - is BS. Yeah, I know, that Light pilots like such kinds of maps, cuz it's places, where their speed matters. But how about other 3/4 players? Don't we have "Scout mode" in this game for them? In most cases matches on such maps end as suicide of one of teams, that loses patience first. Do we need such kind of gameplay? I guess, no.
4) Unbalanced maps. Such as Alpine for example. Maps, where your win/loss is predetermined by spawn side, so you simply lose motivation to play, when you know, that you'll lose anyway. They're also subset of "Tunnel" maps, cuz it isn't possible to play the some different way.
5) Maps with broken design. Maps, that promote bottlenecking and/or NASCARing. Such as Caustic and Therma for example.

That's why players, who don't play Meta builds, are usually left with only 3-5 maps left to choose - Canyon, HPG, Mining, Turmaline, Bog. Thx God, we are majority. But PGI constantly tries to "fix" this problem via forcing broken terrible maps on us. This should be stopped. Everybody here ask for RNG in this game. So, let 4 map choice to be purely random. This is enough RNG, we actually need.

El Bandito, on 29 October 2016 - 03:34 AM, said:

Mordor is a NASCAR map? On which magical tier?

Yeah, almost every match there - is running around central mountain. At least in Tier 3. No one wants to be bottleneck-stomped and chooses to flee instead.

[MrMadguy]

Current map rotation looks like this with little to no variations. This 4 maps with may be 1 different. For example in my previous match maps were almost the same, but Plexus was picked. It was also Assault. We finished it pretty quickly via NASCAR cap rush. No dmg, no kills. Rewards for free, as in sweet old times, when there was no Skirmish. I want this crap to be stopped.

Edited by MrMadguy, 29 October 2016 - 03:59 AM.

[El Bandito]

MrMadguy, on 29 October 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

Yeah, almost every match there - is running around central mountain. At least in Tier 3. No one wants to be bottleneck-stomped and chooses to flee instead.

Man, the participants must be really bad if they choose to flee instead of just controlling the choke points and shoot the enemy as they show their heads. G8 is such as good spot for that.

MrMadguy, on 29 October 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

That's why players, who don't play Meta builds, are usually left with only 3-5 maps left to choose - Canyon, HPG, Mining, Turmaline, Bog. Thx God, we are majority. But PGI constantly tries to "fix" this problem via forcing broken terrible maps on us. This should be stopped. Everybody here ask for RNG in this game. So, let 4 map choice to be purely random. This is enough RNG, we actually need.

You wrote a complaint thread about playing the type of same maps over and over again, yet you are one of the fools who always choose Canyon, HPG, and Mining? Have you no shame? It is thanks to people like you that we drop on Canyon, HPG, and Mining 24/7 in solo-q--especially stupid HPG. You complain about nascaring, yet HPG is one of the most nascared map of all. It is thanks to you that the game feels even more boring than usual.

I would LOVE to have random maps in MWO again just so we wouldn't have stupid Canyon, HPG, and Mining voted over and over again.

Edited by El Bandito, 29 October 2016 - 04:26 AM.

[Sjorpha]

Random maps is the way, make it happen.

[Bombast]

Having problems with Nascar on Terra Therma? Why, let me fix that for you.

Ahem... Just let me clear my fingers... crack a few of them... and...

STOP.

VOTING.

SKIRMISH.

John1352, on 29 October 2016 - 02:00 AM, said:

Spoiler

Sounds like the maps aren't the problem, you're getting tired of playing Nascar Warrior Online. Here's my tip for you:

Stop, turn around and make it your sole objective to kill the first enemy mech who is "winning" the race. The more ridiculous your build is the better!

Diresneeze with SPLs, LBXs (various) and SRMs crammed in until you have a 120 point alpha? Perfect.

Banshee with AC20 + all the pulse lasers? BOOM WUB WUB WUB

King Crab with 2 AC20, 4 ASRM6, 4 MLs? Whoever comes around the corner first is having a bad day.

PS: OVERRIDE ENGAGED

Also know as the 'I'm taking one of you sons of ******* down with me, who's it?' method.

Edited by Bombast, 29 October 2016 - 06:02 AM.

[Tordin]

Umm. The new TT are not near the nascar madness that was the old. Also there are spots where lurmers can have the advantage, buuuut in a false security kind of way. There are nice flanking opportunities against ranged foes camping their comfort zones. The only nascar rushes I've seen is to make sure the enemies dont get those comfy long range spots. Alot of nice approaches and diversity on the new TT for sure.

And yes, bring random maps back again then its all fair and unfair at the same time for all again.

[Mystere]

MrMadguy, on 29 October 2016 - 12:36 AM, said:

Isn't it against "avoiding engagement" non-participation rule? Same happens with Frozen - it causes 5-7 minutes waste of time, as it usually happens on Polar.

MrMadguy, on 29 October 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

4) Unbalanced maps. Such as Alpine for example. Maps, where your win/loss is predetermined by spawn side, so you simply lose motivation to play, when you know, that you'll lose anyway. They're also subset of "Tunnel" maps, cuz it isn't possible to play the some different way.

And finally:

[Ghogiel]

Bombast, on 29 October 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

STOP.

VOTING.

DOMINATION.

FTFY

[Davers]

MrMadguy, on 29 October 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

I dunno, why nobody understands me. May be all players here play laser-vomit builds and some other Meta crap? There just 5 types of maps, I hate. And in all 5 cases my hate is reasonable - not just some "I don't like low visibility", "I hate red color" or "I play hot builds only, so I hate hot maps" kind of personal preference crap.

1) Meta maps. Yeah, when I play my 4xER-LL-vomit build - I like literally every map. Frozen? Ok. Alpine? No problem! Polar? River? Forest? Same thing! So that's when I usually don't care about map. But... I just don't want to always play this same build - I like to play some others too. We have MechLab and other weapons in this game for reason. And it's simply unfair, that only ONE single build can allow you to enjoy all maps in a game and others - don't. I would agree to play on all maps, if PGI would do something with this problem. For example there should be maps, where Snipe Meta sucks, as Brawler one sucks at LRM/Snipe Meta maps.
2) "Tunnel" maps - maps, where there is no variety of tactics. Such as Crimson for example. Where literally every match is played exactly the same way. Cuz any attempt to play it some some different way - is suicide. So after several hundreds of matches on that map you just get sick of it. When I drop on such a map, I usually have feeling, that I don't know, what to do... I want to play it some differently, but I know, that it's suicide. So I usually just brainlessly move forward along the "tunnel" and try to finish this borefest as quickly, as possible.
3) "Waste of time" maps. Sorry, but I log into game to actually play it - not to walk around maps. This is not [MMO]RPG, where wasting time - is major design concept. It's damn shooter! PVP game! If after 5-7 minutes match doesn't even start - my fingers start to automatically crawl towards Alt-F4. Simply because wasting >50% of time on non-playing activities - is BS. Yeah, I know, that Light pilots like such kinds of maps, cuz it's places, where their speed matters. But how about other 3/4 players? Don't we have "Scout mode" in this game for them? In most cases matches on such maps end as suicide of one of teams, that loses patience first. Do we need such kind of gameplay? I guess, no.
4) Unbalanced maps. Such as Alpine for example. Maps, where your win/loss is predetermined by spawn side, so you simply lose motivation to play, when you know, that you'll lose anyway. They're also subset of "Tunnel" maps, cuz it isn't possible to play the some different way.
5) Maps with broken design. Maps, that promote bottlenecking and/or NASCARing. Such as Caustic and Therma for example.

That's why players, who don't play Meta builds, are usually left with only 3-5 maps left to choose - Canyon, HPG, Mining, Turmaline, Bog. Thx God, we are majority. But PGI constantly tries to "fix" this problem via forcing broken terrible maps on us. This should be stopped. Everybody here ask for RNG in this game. So, let 4 map choice to be purely random. This is enough RNG, we actually need.


Yeah, almost every match there - is running around central mountain. At least in Tier 3. No one wants to be bottleneck-stomped and chooses to flee instead.

You have as many map types you hate as there are maps total in game.

MrMadguy, on 29 October 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

I dunno, why nobody understands me. May be all players here play laser-vomit builds and some other Meta crap? There just 5 types of maps, I hate. And in all 5 cases my hate is reasonable - not just some "I don't like low visibility", "I hate red color" or "I play hot builds only, so I hate hot maps" kind of personal preference crap.

1) Meta maps. Yeah, when I play my 4xER-LL-vomit build - I like literally every map. Frozen? Ok. Alpine? No problem! Polar? River? Forest? Same thing! So that's when I usually don't care about map. But... I just don't want to always play this same build - I like to play some others too. We have MechLab and other weapons in this game for reason. And it's simply unfair, that only ONE single build can allow you to enjoy all maps in a game and others - don't. I would agree to play on all maps, if PGI would do something with this problem. For example there should be maps, where Snipe Meta sucks, as Brawler one sucks at LRM/Snipe Meta maps.
2) "Tunnel" maps - maps, where there is no variety of tactics. Such as Crimson for example. Where literally every match is played exactly the same way. Cuz any attempt to play it some some different way - is suicide. So after several hundreds of matches on that map you just get sick of it. When I drop on such a map, I usually have feeling, that I don't know, what to do... I want to play it some differently, but I know, that it's suicide. So I usually just brainlessly move forward along the "tunnel" and try to finish this borefest as quickly, as possible.
3) "Waste of time" maps. Sorry, but I log into game to actually play it - not to walk around maps. This is not [MMO]RPG, where wasting time - is major design concept. It's damn shooter! PVP game! If after 5-7 minutes match doesn't even start - my fingers start to automatically crawl towards Alt-F4. Simply because wasting >50% of time on non-playing activities - is BS. Yeah, I know, that Light pilots like such kinds of maps, cuz it's places, where their speed matters. But how about other 3/4 players? Don't we have "Scout mode" in this game for them? In most cases matches on such maps end as suicide of one of teams, that loses patience first. Do we need such kind of gameplay? I guess, no.
4) Unbalanced maps. Such as Alpine for example. Maps, where your win/loss is predetermined by spawn side, so you simply lose motivation to play, when you know, that you'll lose anyway. They're also subset of "Tunnel" maps, cuz it isn't possible to play the some different way.
5) Maps with broken design. Maps, that promote bottlenecking and/or NASCARing. Such as Caustic and Therma for example.

That's why players, who don't play Meta builds, are usually left with only 3-5 maps left to choose - Canyon, HPG, Mining, Turmaline, Bog. Thx God, we are majority. But PGI constantly tries to "fix" this problem via forcing broken terrible maps on us. This should be stopped. Everybody here ask for RNG in this game. So, let 4 map choice to be purely random. This is enough RNG, we actually need.


Yeah, almost every match there - is running around central mountain. At least in Tier 3. No one wants to be bottleneck-stomped and chooses to flee instead.

You have as many map types you hate as there are maps total in game.

[C E Dwyer]

Maps have never been a problem, just the way people play them

[MrMadguy]

El Bandito, on 29 October 2016 - 04:04 AM, said:

You wrote a complaint thread about playing the type of same maps over and over again, yet you are one of the fools who always choose Canyon, HPG, and Mining? Have you no shame? It is thanks to people like you that we drop on Canyon, HPG, and Mining 24/7 in solo-q--especially stupid HPG. You complain about nascaring, yet HPG is one of the most nascared map of all. It is thanks to you that the game feels even more boring than usual.

I would LOVE to have random maps in MWO again just so we wouldn't have stupid Canyon, HPG, and Mining voted over and over again.

I don't complain about constantly playing the same maps - don't put this words into my mouth. I complain about playing the same BAD maps over and over again. Big difference. As I've already said, it's tolerable to play this maps 2, may be 3 times in a row. But not more.

Bombast, on 29 October 2016 - 05:47 AM, said:

STOP.

VOTING.

SKIRMISH.

You should remember 3 things about past map rotation:
1) When map rotation was random, 3 same maps in a row crap was happening even more often, than it happens now, lol. Map rotation was the same BS with may be 3-4 maps, repeating over and over again.
2) When map rotation was random, we were able to make hard mode choice. Let's return this feature too? M? Do you realize, that all other modes, except Skirmish, will be dead then, as it happened not long before voting was implemented.
3) Skirmish was implemented simply because every Assault match tuned into NASCAR-cap-rush with free rewards for 1 minute matches. PGI simply didn't want to give rewards for free. And they still don't want to do it. That's why Skirmish is still here - alive and healthy.

Edited by MrMadguy, 29 October 2016 - 09:06 AM.

[DAYLEET]

El Bandito, on 29 October 2016 - 03:34 AM, said:

Mordor is a NASCAR map? On which magical tier?

On mine, which is populated with T1 and T3. I ran that map on the side half the times and its much better than going in the heat pit to duke it out which i dont like on that map. This has mix results though, its best when the whole team dont follow you that way the enemy team dont know whats comming. You always find 1 or 2 assault who are camping in a very thigh place and you can drop whatever you want on them. They cant maneuver well or anywhere beside a small hill that they already have their back turned on and their team usualy isnt in a position to cover-fire because of all the cover they are behind. It usually breaks them.

When the whole team follows they know somethings fishy and have time to prepare and can fight back with their whole team which is still a better place to fight without lava and ****.

Same as going left, its all better than middle imo.

Cathy, on 29 October 2016 - 08:54 AM, said:

Maps have never been a problem, just the way people play them

Map distribution IS a problem. Not the map itself. Loved HPG, but right now i want to take a break from it because it was most of what i got with Thera last week. At least Terra is new.

Edited by DAYLEET, 29 October 2016 - 09:32 AM.

[MrMadguy]

It's PGI, who created this problem in a first place. They weren't listening to their players. There weren't terrible or bad maps in the past - all maps were great, except may be 1-2. Now they ruined 80% maps and lost 80% playerbase as the result. And do you think they would even dare to force something on players in this situation? No. They can't even nerf obviously OP Kodiak, lol. I guess, what they will announce on MechCon - is that MWO is going to be faded away and that some new game will replace it, such as UI-based mobile card game in BattleTech universe. It's obvious, because they stopped to invest any money into MWO and because they have not so many 'Mechs left to sell on their "Do you wanna buy a 'Mech pack?" assembly line.

So. RNG in video games usually means "what is controlled by developers - not players". We won't allow them to take control over map rotation again, sorry. They dealt enough damage to this game and turned it from great game, it was back in OpenBeta times, into piece of crap, it is now.

Edited by MrMadguy, 29 October 2016 - 09:50 AM.

[Aiden Skye]

MrMadguy, on 29 October 2016 - 03:40 AM, said:

I dunno, why nobody understands me. May be all players here play laser-vomit builds and some other Meta crap? There just 5 types of maps, I hate. And in all 5 cases my hate is reasonable - not just some "I don't like low visibility", "I hate red color" or "I play hot builds only, so I hate hot maps" kind of personal preference crap.

1) Meta maps. Yeah, when I play my 4xER-LL-vomit build - I like literally every map. Frozen? Ok. Alpine? No problem! Polar? River? Forest? Same thing! So that's when I usually don't care about map. But... I just don't want to always play this same build - I like to play some others too. We have MechLab and other weapons in this game for reason. And it's simply unfair, that only ONE single build can allow you to enjoy all maps in a game and others - don't. I would agree to play on all maps, if PGI would do something with this problem. For example there should be maps, where Snipe Meta sucks, as Brawler one sucks at LRM/Snipe Meta maps.
2) "Tunnel" maps - maps, where there is no variety of tactics. Such as Crimson for example. Where literally every match is played exactly the same way. Cuz any attempt to play it some some different way - is suicide. So after several hundreds of matches on that map you just get sick of it. When I drop on such a map, I usually have feeling, that I don't know, what to do... I want to play it some differently, but I know, that it's suicide. So I usually just brainlessly move forward along the "tunnel" and try to finish this borefest as quickly, as possible.
3) "Waste of time" maps. Sorry, but I log into game to actually play it - not to walk around maps. This is not [MMO]RPG, where wasting time - is major design concept. It's damn shooter! PVP game! If after 5-7 minutes match doesn't even start - my fingers start to automatically crawl towards Alt-F4. Simply because wasting >50% of time on non-playing activities - is BS. Yeah, I know, that Light pilots like such kinds of maps, cuz it's places, where their speed matters. But how about other 3/4 players? Don't we have "Scout mode" in this game for them? In most cases matches on such maps end as suicide of one of teams, that loses patience first. Do we need such kind of gameplay? I guess, no.
4) Unbalanced maps. Such as Alpine for example. Maps, where your win/loss is predetermined by spawn side, so you simply lose motivation to play, when you know, that you'll lose anyway. They're also subset of "Tunnel" maps, cuz it isn't possible to play the some different way.
5) Maps with broken design. Maps, that promote bottlenecking and/or NASCARing. Such as Caustic and Therma for example.

That's why players, who don't play Meta builds, are usually left with only 3-5 maps left to choose - Canyon, HPG, Mining, Turmaline, Bog. Thx God, we are majority. But PGI constantly tries to "fix" this problem via forcing broken terrible maps on us. This should be stopped. Everybody here ask for RNG in this game. So, let 4 map choice to be purely random. This is enough RNG, we actually need.

Yeah, almost every match there - is running around central mountain. At least in Tier 3. No one wants to be bottleneck-stomped and chooses to flee instead.

I don't play meta. And I don't get where most of this is coming from. I like big "Waste of time maps" as you put it, so I'm not forced into a brawl by default, while having room to actually outmaneuver the enemy. Lot of tunnel maps can be played differently...except players choose to do the same thing over and over. Unbalanced maps? No game is a guranteed loss just because you are on the wrong side.

Most of the map problems in the game come from a central issue. No matter the map or mode, players either
A - Nascar or
B - Run to the middle to trade from behind a rock 200m away from the enemy...or C
C - A combination of A + B.

AB&C also tie into the fact that most people build mechs to be good at one thing. It's understandable for certain mechs with limited hardpoints, but when players dedicate all their firepower to focus damage at long / short range....what happens outside that range? Makes your mech very un-versatile and hence players stick to the same tactic of A,B and C.

A battle can take place anywhere on the map. It's just people like you have no patience...using your own words here - you join a game and you want to be shooting ASAP, hence people run to the middle. Slow mechs get left behind on both sides, faster mechs start flanking them and Nascar is born.

I think what is needed is more effective ways to force a fight that is not in the usual hot zone. A lot of areas that go unused on most maps are areas that could make some builds really shine and make for some really good battles. All this stuff you are having issues with could be easily avoided by using the whole map as the battlefield, not just the grid over and over.

Some of the best moments in MWO happened in rare matches where players didn't just follow the normal tactics and forced a fight in some unusual spot that had both teams having to adapt on the fly. That said it's tough, cuz MWO is very team dependent, and you need the cooperation of your team...Most times you have no choice but to go along with them.

TL:DR - This problem goes well beyond map design. It's really more of a player issue.

Also: The last time 4x ERLL was meta, was when IS mechs had those stupid +20% energy range + XX% duration quirks. It's more of a long range build that can be used to exploit the fact that most players won't have that kind of reach. And it does have a serious weakness in that if something built for mid / close range gets close and personal, before you can put some serious hurt down, you're gonna be running hot with long beam burn times.

Edited by W A R K H A N, 29 October 2016 - 10:22 AM.

[C E Dwyer]

DAYLEET, on 29 October 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

Map distribution IS a problem. Not the map itself. Loved HPG, but right now i want to take a break from it because it was most of what i got with Thera last week. At least Terra is new.

Oh I completely agree, but then this was always going to be a problem when P.G.I gave people the vote.