296 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Khobai, on 13 January 2016 - 08:10 PM, said:

then give me a 1v1 gamemode in CW. and ill be superior.

I dont like teammates because they always let you down. lol.

Its ridiculous to punish someone for wanting to be a lonewolf. You should not be forced to join a unit in order to contribute meaningfully to CW.

You're not punishing them in any way for wanting to be a lone wolf any more than you punish someone for wanting to run an MG and Flamer Dire Wolf in a competitive match. You're not punishing them, they've decided to limit themselves either intentionally or unintentionally.

Quit trying to punish everyone else for NOT being a lonewolf by letting someone doing less effort and less overall skill (communication and coordination is a skill) but still win the same prize.

Quit trying to get an unlevel field. You play on the same field with everyone else. If you choose not to coordinate or communicate that's your choice. If you want a segregated, curated environment where you only play with people at your own skill level you already have it. Pug/group queue.

Quit trying to break CW until it's like pug queue. You already have pug queue. You don't need to make everything else as bad as pug queue.

[Khobai]

Quote

Quit trying to punish everyone else for NOT being a lonewolf

how is it punishing units by having them avoid pugstomps which arnt enjoyable for either side?

Quote

Quit trying to get an unlevel field.

how is it unlevel for pugs to play pugs and premades to play premade? you make no sense.

Quote

You already have pug queue.

except there is no pug queue in CW.

if I wanted to play quickplay I would play quickplay. i dont wanna play that !@#$.

Edited by Khobai, 13 January 2016 - 08:33 PM.

[AEgg]

MischiefSC, on 13 January 2016 - 08:17 PM, said:

but still win the same prize.

YOU don't win anything in CW, your FACTION does (and your unit can get it's tag on a planet).

Even if you never, ever drop in a CW game, your faction still gets that planet. At least those that drop in a theoretical solo queue worked for it.

[adamts01]

dario03, on 13 January 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

Splitting the low player count, increase in search times, groups needing to try to find a spot to fit being harder since low pop.
6man+4man+2pugs vs 12pugs.

How is this OK but having a 4 man drop in solo que is the end of the world. 4 mans were bad, but I'm making a point here. This is what the CW white Knights don't have a reply to. Still waiting for my answer Sandpit. "Just use coms." right. Most solo players don't give a **** about teamwork, voip might as well not be there. CW sucks, join a 12 man and club, or go solo and carry against a pug team or get flunked by a group. MM can never match the desire to work as a team. There needs the be a 2-man/solo que and a group que that solos can opt in to, in normal drops and CW. That way you can derp with flamers with your buddy and solo players can get away from the mindless hordes of lemmings.

[MischiefSC]

Khobai, on 13 January 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

how is it punishing units by having them avoid pugstomps which arnt enjoyable for either side?



how is it unlevel for pugs to play pugs and premades to play premade? you make no sense.



except there is no pug queue in CW.

if I wanted to play quickplay I would play quickplay. i dont wanna play that !@#$.

Except you want CW to have a quckplay environment for you to pug in.

What do you think the difference between a pug queue for CW and CW maps/modes in pug queue is going to be, other than the rewards and helping take a planet (from units who can't fight you back)?

AEgg, on 13 January 2016 - 08:34 PM, said:

YOU don't win anything in CW, your FACTION does (and your unit can get it's tag on a planet).

Even if you never, ever drop in a CW game, your faction still gets that planet. At least those that drop in a theoretical solo queue worked for it.

Then why bother playing in CW at all as a pug?

You're trying to pretend that your 'effort' or lack of it is irrelevant to who wins or loses. If you pugging in a pug queue helps your faction take a world from another faction who absolutely would have and should have demolished you because they had better units but you had more pugs (who never had to play against the units) you just absolutely robbed the other faction.

In an open environment they would have won but you won by never fighting their units.

If you have no impact on your factions winning or losing, your presence or absence in a pug queue in CW as opposed to CW game modes/maps in existing pug queue is irrelevant.

If you have an impact on your factions winning or losing then you playing in a protected queue creates an unfair, imbalanced environment for every faction involved. You didn't win because your faction was better; you won because you avoided playing the best of the other faction.

Russ just tweeted back that there's going to be some sort of 'unit queue' but it's tied somehow to the new 'dropship mode' and 'scouting'. It doesn't sound like a pug queue/group queue split, more like you'll have scouting missions of 4v4 that you have to pug into and you'll have regular drops (like we have now) that require you to drop as a 12man.

Am willing to see how that plays out though it largely eliminates the ability to really pug in CW except for scouting.

[dario03]

adamts01, on 13 January 2016 - 08:44 PM, said:

How is this OK but having a 4 man drop in solo que is the end of the world. 4 mans were bad, but I'm making a point here. This is what the CW white Knights don't have a reply to. Still waiting for my answer Sandpit. "Just use coms." right. Most solo players don't give a **** about teamwork, voip might as well not be there. CW sucks, join a 12 man and club, or go solo and carry against a pug team or get flunked by a group. MM can never match the desire to work as a team. There needs the be a 2-man/solo que and a group que that solos can opt in to, in normal drops and CW. That way you can derp with flamers with your buddy and solo players can get away from the mindless hordes of lemmings.

The point of my suggestion is to keep one queue but try to make fights more level and get more players to stay.

[Mystere]

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 06:53 PM, said:

The planet system has been a pretty abysmal failure through and through up to this point either way. It would be far better served to use it as a background layer and apply an active leader board system anyhow.

I know TT and Lore people want that system to cling to for their roleplaying, but it just really hasn't panned out to be any sort of a positive feature for CW up to this point.

It has been a "failure" because it is still just a mere skeleton, a beta, not in a reasonably finished state, ... Did I miss another term?

Or is that your goal, to ensure CW just remains a skeleton?

Edited by Mystere, 13 January 2016 - 09:07 PM.

[adamts01]

dario03, on 13 January 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

The point of my suggestion is to keep one queue but try to make fights more level and get more players to stay.

I understand that. Let me ask you, what did you think about 4-mans in solo que? Why would your situation play out differently?

[Mystere]

AEgg, on 13 January 2016 - 06:54 PM, said:

But YOU aren't trying to "win the super bowl". Your FACTION is trying to "win the super bowl". And to do that, you have the best and worst players in the game, against the other factions best and worst players. Everyone contributes as best as they are able. And for those contributions to be meaningful, the games need to be at least somewhat balanced.

These threads really need to be merged...

Edit: moved empahsis for clarity

I don't think you're using the word "balance" correctly.

Community WARfare is a quasi war simulation. In way, you not seek balance. You seek an advantage and maximize it to the enemy's demise.

CW is not eSports. Go ask for Solaris if that is what you want.

Edited by Mystere, 13 January 2016 - 09:16 PM.

[Mystere]

Khobai, on 13 January 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

I have yet to hear any coherent argument for how split queues would reduce CW.

Sigh! Must I always repeat myself?

Mystere, on 07 January 2016 - 08:49 AM, said:

Local resident on radio:

"Help! Help! We're under attack! Send the army now! These foreign barbarians are massacring the population! Help us please!"

Military Command:

"Mam, I'm afraid we cannot help you at this time. You're facing a ragtag band of enemies. But, the current rules of war dictate that we can only send an equally ragtag band. Unfortunately, our military has none, and so I guess you all just have to submit to your new masters while we try to scrounge up and arm some local peasants from a nearby planet ... Yikes! We do not have any peasants!"

[adamts01]

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 09:14 PM, said:

Sigh! Must I always repeat myself?

If this was war, we'd take out these silly mechs with cruise missiles, or box them in with tiny pebbles they can't walk over. While clubbing seals is accurate in warfare, it's boring in any game, and why I stopped playing CW over a year ago. Steam players got CW kickstarted but they need to hurry and make some changes or history will repeat itself.

[Mystere]

adamts01, on 13 January 2016 - 08:44 PM, said:

Most solo players don't give a **** about teamwork ...

And which is why sharks should and do feed on them in CW. It's up to the former to show mercy, if at all.

[Mystere]

MischiefSC, on 13 January 2016 - 08:55 PM, said:

Russ just tweeted back that there's going to be some sort of 'unit queue' but it's tied somehow to the new 'dropship mode' and 'scouting'. It doesn't sound like a pug queue/group queue split, more like you'll have scouting missions of 4v4 that you have to pug into and you'll have regular drops (like we have now) that require you to drop as a 12man.

If your description is accurate, then piranhas are going to have wonderful meals in 4x4. <maniacal >

[Mystere]

adamts01, on 13 January 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

If this was war, we'd take out these silly mechs with cruise missiles, or box them in with tiny pebbles they can't walk over. While clubbing seals is accurate in warfare, it's boring in any game, and why I stopped playing CW over a year ago. Steam players got CW kickstarted but they need to hurry and make some changes or history will repeat itself.

And again I am repeating myself:

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 10:39 AM, said:

Again the solution is more imaginative game modes paired with appropriate maps, all designed to add immersion and depth, while at the same time softening the blow for new players. That includes a more rational campaign system and faction organization tools.

And people are getting too literal on this "war" thing. By "war", I mean "war in the Battletech universe", not 'Murika lobbing cruise missiles willy-nilly.

Edited by Mystere, 13 January 2016 - 09:38 PM.

[Lazor Sharp]

In the town hall Russ said that the 4v4's would affect what was happening during the 48v48 matches by turning on and off things like Artie's, air strikes, open / close gates, etc, etc, during various matches on a planet, and ya think a faction is going to send pugges to get or keep these asset advantages vs what ever opponent they are up against......? Hell no, they will send the top 4 man Vet team to get and keep this asset for their unit or faction...... I really don't think the 4 man scout mission's are going to be as solo / puggie / newbie friendly as they think it will be......

Edited by Lazor Sharp, 13 January 2016 - 09:56 PM.

[adamts01]

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 09:22 PM, said:

And which is why sharks should and do feed on them in CW. It's up to the former to show mercy, if at all.

Show me a single arena where that works. You're living in a fantasy if you think that's a possibility. Humans are lazy and selfish. If there's a way to cheat and get away with it, they do. When an exploit is found in this game, it's used to death until PGI patches it out. For all the talk about people wanting even fights, most of their fragile egos couldn't handle losing. Your absolutely kidding yourself if you think players will intentionally gimp themselves to be on an equal footing to a **** team of 12 pugs.

[MechWarrior3671771]

Mystere, on 13 January 2016 - 09:34 PM, said:

And people are getting too literal on this "war" thing. By "war", mean "war in the Battletech universe", not 'Murika lobbing cruise missiles willy-nilly.

ie, you have this great metaphor comparing CW to War that you use as a gotcha question, until people continue the comparison to show you why its not accurate.

Edited by Fen Tetsudo, 13 January 2016 - 09:55 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:

As much as I was against it at the start and even well into Phase 2, with steam and a small influx of new players (or at least vets that are newly returned) that want to participate in CW that are slowly learning to adapt to group play - I think it is probably in the best interest of player retention to implement a split queue system.

Units and teams don't need to be rolling pugs, there actually seems to be enough interest in coordinated play (and could continue to/be more if rewarded better than pug play) that we really don't need the single queue.

If the majority is still adamant against split queues then the only other viable option to get the population up/keep new pug players is to eliminate the planet map and stick everyone into the 3 bucket system - IS v IS, Clan v Clan, Clan v IS to load up the drop counts and minimize how often pugs will land against larger groups.

Groups often claim to want CW to be a harder/end game mode, but constantly fight against the things that would make it so - so at some point something needs to be done to either force that to happen or to make the inclusion of solos a more welcoming environment.

-----
A solo only training planet queue would also be a welcome addition. Limited amount of drops, lower rewards and some audio/visual instruction. I'm sure there's also drop commanders that would willingly sign up to do a training/recruiting session a couple days a week.

The whole point of CW is that its not diluted by MM wait times and sorting. Its supposed to be an organized game option whether you're part of a 12 man or not. 12 single players can coordinate, they just have to be willing to, and its not the fault of a 12 man if one or more members of the other team are uncooperative. In fact, there's an option to report for that specific reason.

I'm not trying to be a **** about the subject, but the whole point of CW was to create a large fight across several planets with territory control, financial investment into planets, and more. It was the place for Units to be able to do more than just fight in a 12v12 pub match. I personally hope the financial investments on planets for the holding unit are also accompanied by bonuses for them. Plus the return of 'Rearm and Repair' would be nice imo, along with an adjustment to rewards in order to mitigate any potential major CBill issues.

HOWEVER, there does need to be a limitation put in place for people I think. Something along the line of a training course (like the Academy) or at least an informational video to explain the basics of CW to people. Its a whole lot more involved than quick play and simple mech building and the biggest issues I see are people not knowing whats going on or not having mechs that are set up to take part in CW.

[MechWarrior3671771]

I also don't understand this contradiction:

"We can afford to run off new players who refuse to get good!"

"We can't split the que between pug & premade because we don't have enough players"

So many of these arguments appear dishonest, like they are situational depending on what fits best at the moment. That's usually a tell that someone is reacting with excuses instead of a making a case built on some principle.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

sycocys, on 13 January 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:

As much as I was against it at the start and even well into Phase 2, with steam and a small influx of new players (or at least vets that are newly returned) that want to participate in CW that are slowly learning to adapt to group play - I think it is probably in the best interest of player retention to implement a split queue system.

Units and teams don't need to be rolling pugs, there actually seems to be enough interest in coordinated play (and could continue to/be more if rewarded better than pug play) that we really don't need the single queue.

If the majority is still adamant against split queues then the only other viable option to get the population up/keep new pug players is to eliminate the planet map and stick everyone into the 3 bucket system - IS v IS, Clan v Clan, Clan v IS to load up the drop counts and minimize how often pugs will land against larger groups.

Groups often claim to want CW to be a harder/end game mode, but constantly fight against the things that would make it so - so at some point something needs to be done to either force that to happen or to make the inclusion of solos a more welcoming environment.

-----
A solo only training planet queue would also be a welcome addition. Limited amount of drops, lower rewards and some audio/visual instruction. I'm sure there's also drop commanders that would willingly sign up to do a training/recruiting session a couple days a week.

Time to split CW queue? PLEASE, FFS, anything to shut up the damned whiners. No more excuses about how pre-mades are farming solos for their egos and e-peen strokes? That would do my blood pressure SO much good, I'd be willing to orally pleasure an angry bull shark to get that done. Seriously, where do I f***ing sign up?