34 replies to this topic

[epikt]

Mechspecs is not exactly like Metamechs. It's an open forum, where everybody can post. And it's not really made by and for competitive players. So you can find casual builds. You can find very badly conceived builds.

But I agree on the general statement: for the "casual" player (as in "non competitive"), especially those new to the game, Metamechs builds lists is mostly a misdirection. But there are valuable resources on this site, like the "how to build a mech" articles. Or even the mech master guides, as long as you don't focus on the result (the builds) but read it fully, and read betwen the line to understand the thought process that leads to those builds. The important think is to learn how to conceive a build, understand a chassis specificities, strengths and weaknesses, put together a coherent weapon system fitting the style you want, etc... If you just copy the builds, because it's "meta", you know nothing.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Leone, on 15 January 2016 - 01:16 AM, said:

Seriously, ignore this. I mean, look at it if you want sure, but these builds are often trash for new folk. People have quit after spending all their starting cash on builds from here. It is meant for high end competitive play, not for learning the game. They are not for everyone.

So, also think about what weaponry you like, Clan or IS tech, Ballistics, Energy, or Missiles. Also, ask yourself this... DPS or High damage Alphas for poking and cooling down? Then we'll have some hefty suggestions.

~Leone

Except they do mastery builds, ignoring the most successful builds for mechs is the reason so many people are derp at the game.

[epikt]

No.
So many people are "derp" at this game because they copy so-called "mastery builds" without understanding how they work, how they're made and for what purpose, how they're supposed to be piloted and in what context.

Furthermore, this game is about piloting, it's also about customisation, about how to build a mech that fits your particular needs. It you adopt build straight from Metamechs it's just as if half the game was pre-chewed. Not as fun, not as rewarding. Not to mention not as efficient, since piloting and customisation are two complementary activities, each supporting the other.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

epikt, on 15 January 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

No.
So many people are "derp" at this game because they copy so-called "mastery builds" without understanding how they work, how they're made and for what purpose, how they're supposed to be piloted and in what context.

Furthermore, this game is about piloting, it's also about customisation, about how to build a mech that fits your particular needs. It you adopt build straight from Metamechs it's just as if half the game was pre-chewed. Not as fun, not as rewarding. Not to mention not as efficient, since piloting and customisation are two complementary activities, each supporting the other.

Look you can dress it up anyway you want. And sure at T3 and below you can get away with just about any nonsensical build you can dream up.

The fact is like any game there is a meta, there are the best builds, learn them get used to them adapt as they change over time because to ignore them means your not only handicapping yourself, but the rest of your team.

[Rogue Jedi]

DV McKenna, on 16 January 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

Look you can dress it up anyway you want. And sure at T3 and below you can get away with just about any nonsensical build you can dream up.

The fact is like any game there is a meta, there are the best builds, learn them get used to them adapt as they change over time because to ignore them means your not only handicapping yourself, but the rest of your team.

but the so called "best" builds are only usualy good at a single thing, and usualy require a higher level of skill to do well in than a new player will have.
You seem to be of the opinion that if you are not playing "meta" you are handicapping your team, and in high level play you could be correct, what you fail to understand is some people are not interested in, or ^{(in the case of most people asking for help in New Player Help)} not yet ready for high level play.

about 2 years ago I was on a competitive team, we practiced together 3-4 times a week and often had 1 or more evening worth of matches on top of that.
after a few months I was bunt out and had a few months after where I played maybe once a week, now I am playing more casually I am having more fun, this is after all a game, if you are not enjoying yourself you are doing something wrong.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 16 January 2016 - 08:57 AM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Rogue Jedi, on 16 January 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

but the so called "best" builds are only usualy good at a single thing, and usualy require a higher level of skill to do well in than a new player will have.
You seem to be of the opinion that if you are not playing "meta" you are handicapping your team, and in high level play you could be correct, what you fail to understand is some people are not interested in, or ^{(in the case of most people asking for help in New Player Help)} not yet ready for high level play.

about 2 years ago I was on a competitive team, we practiced together 3-4 times a week and often had 1 or more evening worth of matches on top of that.
I ended up getting bunt out and had a few months after where I played maybe once a week, now I am playing more casually I am having more fun, this is after all a game, if you are not enjoying yourself you are doing something wrong.

And that is there point, in just about every single game the focused builds/talents etc are always superior than the jack of all trades.
It's up to the OP which way he wishes to play.

[epikt]

DV McKenna, on 16 January 2016 - 08:19 AM, said:

Look you can dress it up anyway you want. And sure at T3 and below you can get away with just about any nonsensical build you can dream up.

Too bad I'm T1 and perfectly able to do my share, or even carry the team, with any build I enjoy and play consistently enough.

Oh, mind you, my builds are far from nonsensical (well, except my 2PPC+AC/5 RVN-4X and other joke builds I ride from time to time), they are well conceived and thoroughly tested, and tweaked according to the field tests. Some of them are similar to what's on Metamechs (afterall, we're playing the same game). Some other would never dream to feature on the site ; still they work nicely enough.
I just didn't brainlessly copied my builds from a website. I learnt how to pilot. I learnt how to build. Because that's part of the game and that's how it's fun, engaging and rewarding.

There is indeed a "meta". But it's just ridiculous to strictly follow it, except for competitive teams (and even for comp, if you don't understand what your doing, no matter how "meta" your deck is, you'll get stomped).
For the usual PUG play, and that includes both solo and group queue, including at the highest tiers, sticking to "Metamechs approved" power-builds just makes you a mindless tryhard.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

epikt, on 16 January 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

Too bad I'm T1 and perfectly able to do my share, or even carry the team, with any build I enjoy and play consistently enough.

Oh, mind you, my builds are far from nonsensical (well, except my 2PPC+AC/5 RVN-4X and other joke builds I ride from time to time), they are well conceived and thoroughly tested, and tweaked according to the field tests. Some of them are similar to what's on Metamechs (afterall, we're playing the same game). Some other would never dream to feature on the site ; still they work nicely enough.
I just didn't brainlessly copied my builds from a website. I learnt how to pilot. I learnt how to build. Because that's part of the game and that's how it's fun, engaging and rewarding.

There is indeed a "meta". But it's just ridiculous to strictly follow it, except for competitive teams (and even for comp, if you don't understand what your doing, no matter how "meta" your deck is, you'll get stomped).
For the usual PUG play, and that includes both solo and group queue, including at the highest tiers, sticking to "Metamechs approved" power-builds just makes you a mindless tryhard.

I'm sure you are petal. I'm giving my opinion to a new player as someone who's experienced in Mechwarrior just like you are.

It's down to the OP to decide how he wishes to play.

[MechWarrior3671771]

DV McKenna, on 16 January 2016 - 08:57 AM, said:

in just about every single game the focused builds/talents etc are always superior than the jack of all trades. It's up to the OP which way he wishes to play.

Just remember the meta is always getting nerfed. Find the new meta, get a new nerf. That's the risk you are taking by chasing the meta, and you should expect it every time.

A good pilot can take a subpar build and make it sing.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Fen Tetsudo, on 16 January 2016 - 11:24 AM, said:

Just remember the meta is always getting nerfed. Find the new meta, get a new nerf. That's the risk you are taking by chasing the meta, and you should expect it every time.

A good pilot can take a subpar build and make it sing.

Again as I said above the meta changes and you adapt to it. There is still a reason why every game has one and why they are used

[Nik Reaper]

DV McKenna, on 16 January 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

Again as I said above the meta changes and you adapt to it. There is still a reason why every game has one and why they are used

There is one point to consider though that you do not seem to be taking in account by what you were saying, and that is: is he going to buy those mechs with cash or cbills, will he play 40h a week, a month or just a few games every weekend, will he use premium or not?

If you look at it from the perspective of non premium "free" player , much like myself ( in 3 years I used about 70$ ), I can't afford to chase the meta all the time, more so when the meta are some package mechs months from a cbill option, or even when they are fresh out, if they are clan with a bih XL engine, going for ~14mil a pop x3, so telling someone to just go with something that might not only not be best in a month or two but without some quirks might be nonviable is not the most considerate advice...

I would always suggest a stormcrow of any build, as once bought it can be anything for a small extra amount, while always fast as no need to think about the engine, and always tanky due to hitboxes , any build he does on it should be better due to those than the same build on another mech. It's just a question of the build on it, instead of a standard laser vomit crow he could go all mpulse or spulse , use the streak crow to relax , snipe with a 3 LL crow and so on while having the passive benefits of the mech, while keeping to 1 or 2 weapon groups.

Edited by Nik Reaper, 17 January 2016 - 12:17 PM.

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Nik Reaper, on 17 January 2016 - 12:16 PM, said:

There is one point to consider though that you do not seem to be taking in account by what you were saying, and that is: is he going to buy those mechs with cash or cbills, will he play 40h a week, a month or just a few games every weekend, will he use premium or not?

If you look at it from the perspective of non premium "free" player , much like myself ( in 3 years I used about 70$ ), I can't afford to chase the meta all the time, more so when the meta are some package mechs months from a cbill option, or even when they are fresh out, if they are clan with a bih XL engine, going for ~14mil a pop x3, so telling someone to just go with something that might not only not be best in a month or two but without some quirks might be nonviable is not the most considerate advice...

I would always suggest a stormcrow of any build, as once bought it can be anything for a small extra amount, while always fast as no need to think about the engine, and always tanky due to hitboxes , any build he does on it should be better due to those than the same build on another mech. It's just a question of the build on it, instead of a standard laser vomit crow he could go all mpulse or spulse , use the streak crow to relax , snipe with a 3 LL crow and so on while having the passive benefits of the mech, while keeping to 1 or 2 weapon groups.

Depends from a competitive standpoint there is no need to adopt the buy it now mentality most leagues/tournaments won't adopt new mechs till cbill purchase.

From a new player standpoint I'd never spend money and the majority of the high tier mechs are all cbill purchases and this isn't likely to change until the next major balance pass which could be some considerable time away.

[Takahashi Morimoto]

Well I made my decision on my first mech. I thank you for being easy on me since I have never played much before this. Anyways, I will see you all in game.

Remeber,
Drop easy but hit'em hard!

Edited by Takahashi Morimoto, 01 February 2016 - 11:30 PM.

[Koniving]

Takahashi Morimoto, on 01 February 2016 - 11:28 PM, said:

Well I made my decision on my first mech. I thank you for being easy on me since I have never played much before this. Anyways, I will see you all in game.

Remeber,
Drop easy but hit'em hard!

Glad to hear it.

Let us know how it turned out.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

epikt, on 16 January 2016 - 09:02 AM, said:

Too bad I'm T1 and perfectly able to do my share, or even carry the team, with any build I enjoy and play consistently enough.

Oh, mind you, my builds are far from nonsensical (well, except my 2PPC+AC/5 RVN-4X and other joke builds I ride from time to time), they are well conceived and thoroughly tested, and tweaked according to the field tests. Some of them are similar to what's on Metamechs (afterall, we're playing the same game). Some other would never dream to feature on the site ; still they work nicely enough.
I just didn't brainlessly copied my builds from a website. I learnt how to pilot. I learnt how to build. Because that's part of the game and that's how it's fun, engaging and rewarding.

There is indeed a "meta". But it's just ridiculous to strictly follow it, except for competitive teams (and even for comp, if you don't understand what your doing, no matter how "meta" your deck is, you'll get stomped).
For the usual PUG play, and that includes both solo and group queue, including at the highest tiers, sticking to "Metamechs approved" power-builds just makes you a mindless tryhard.

Amen.
meta is fine and dandy, but you need to truly understand how to use it. An inept pilot in a meta build is no match for a skilled pilot in damn near anything.
In other words, skill trumps all.