84 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Mystere, on 15 January 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

Not only that, public wi-fi is getting widespread, and so are people who prey on others who use that same wi-fi. As such, if you're not on a VPN, you're asking for trouble.

People don't have and run VPN commonly?
It's a changing of the guard technology honestly.

Just like you've got people who regard twitter as "useless", etc. and refuse to use it. Times change, tehcnology changes, programs change with that. You'll always have some that argue against that kind of stuff.

[Sereglach]

DV McKenna, on 15 January 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

And what? as you've just said above it's nothing special to be using a VPN service, and they are quite popular.
It doesn't prove or evidence anything other than the use of a VPN.

Is this going to be the next boogeyman...oh the alts..its so unfair...oh he must be using a VPN.

It's funny that you go off in such a way. I haven't pointed to alts saying that they'll be the boogeyman. Others have, and that is what is being discussed . . . the methods, counters, and philosophies of things such as recruitment fees and split queues in dealing with these kinds of issues when real value rewards will be involved in CW Phase 3 and beyond.

All I've pointed out is that the supposedly impenetrable methods of going incognito and running alt accounts (VPN connections, MAC spoofing, and throw-away ISP emails) do have counters that are just as easily utilized. I do, however, find it funny that people seem to think their quick methods of hiding themselves are somehow magically incapable of being ferreted out.

All I pointed out is the weapon that exists in the TOS. Is it fair? Depending on how that weapon is wielded, some would probably say it's not. However, it's in the Terms of Service that everyone agrees to when they sign up to play the game.

[EgoSlayer]

Sereglach, on 14 January 2016 - 11:51 PM, said:

EDIT: to respond to . . .

There's been nothing mentioned about unit membership dues. There has been, however, mention of recruitment fees that units would need to pay in order to pick up new members. Those fees would grow in size based on the number of members in the unit (c-bill values and unit size correlations have not been revealed in any degree). That is, in fact, a form of logistics; because units would need to be wary of their size and managing recruitment to coincide with what they can afford to support/hire.

This isn't logistics by any stretch; You are mistaking who is paying the membership fee/due - its the *player* not the unit. The players have to pay this fee to join the unit, no mention of where those C-Bills go so it could be either going to PGI like a store purchase or to the unit coffers. Although since the reason for membership fee is for two things - 1 ) Put a cost on joining a unit to prevent people from exploiting the new planned unit/non-unit queues in CW Link ,and 2 ) Provide an incentive to join a smaller unit since the cost of entry is lower.
So I would expect these C-bills to just be gone, not to the unit coffers because it doesn't help case 1 if the unit gets to keep all the money. Also, griefing could be an issue - join then kick; thanks for the C-bills.

Who this damages the most is actually new players. They are space poor already, if they want to join a unit they are going to be forced to join a smaller unit. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but larger units are going to be having more people online at any given time, so more people to help, and more groups running concurrently to help new people with the game.

Large units that are new player friendly are going to have a new player barrier for entry because the new players won't have the C-Bills to pay the fee.

Quote of relevant portion of above link:

Quote

[MS]-Xavier ‏@yebgretzsky Jan 14

@russ_bullock what's to stop unit players from leaving a unit and dropping in solo queue? It would be real easy for unit players to sync up
0 retweets 0 likes

Russ Bullock
‏@russ_bullock

@yebgretzsky well for one the main unit could lose valuable MC tags and we are introducing a new Cbill recruitment cost that grows with size

Edited by EgoSlayer, 15 January 2016 - 03:51 PM.

[Sereglach]

EgoSlayer, on 15 January 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

This isn't logistics by any stretch; You are mistaking who is paying the membership fee/due - its the *player* not the unit. The players have to pay this fee to join the unit, no mention of where those C-Bills go so it could be either going to PGI like a store purchase or to the unit coffers. Although since the reason for membership fee is for two things - 1 ) Put a cost on joining a unit to prevent people from exploiting the new planned unit/non-unit queues in CW Link ,and 2 ) Provide an incentive to join a smaller unit since the cost of entry is lower.
So I would expect these C-bills to just be gone, not to the unit coffers because it doesn't help case 1 if the unit gets to keep all the money. Also, griefing could be an issue - join then kick; thanks for the C-bills.

Who this damages the most is actually new players. They are space poor already, if they want to join a unit they are going to be forced to join a smaller unit. That isn't necessarily a bad thing, but larger units are going to be having more people online at any given time, so more people to help, and more groups running concurrently to help new people with the game.

Large units that are new player friendly are going to have a new player barrier for entry because the new players won't have the C-Bills to pay the fee.

Quote of relevant portion of above link:

We'll have to see, because I read a recruitment cost as a cost to the unit, and not the player. Logic being that the unit is doing the recruiting and not the player. It seems that the c-bill costs would be coming from unit coffers, so people joining and leaving units constantly would drain unit coffers and cripple their abilities in the long run.

So we currently see things and read them as the exact opposite. I suppose the only way to get resolution will be to see how it unfolds either with release, a preview, or a Town Hall description/clarification.

[Holywar]

Ok well the unit cost is ******** by any human measure. It's a stupid balance mechanic.

I only came on here because me and 3 other people who are super intrested in mech warrior feel like they are getting dicked around. This like ciggeratte or liquer taxes. It's a bad way to solve a problem.

I'm cool with people changing units, so long as people actually play and aren't scared away.

I rarely complain. This is dumb. It feels like going to six flags and being charged 8 dollars for a hot dog, not like a balance mechanic, which is invisible to most people who are just getting organized.

Low friction is the rule to multiplayer games. Even this tiny amount has a non-zero opportunity cost to players who say '**** that noise' and decide to play another game.

Seriously, i love this franchise. Leave the money alone. You guys get more profit with more people. Nickel and diming is a bad way to handle balance issues in a game where people can buy money.

Edited by Holywar, 22 July 2016 - 05:25 PM.