95 replies to this topic

[MechWarrior5152251]

LRMs do a lot more damage than they did last year. There had to have been a stealth buff....

[Barantor]

I can't wait till the Archer comes out and hear what OP thinks....

[DjPush]

Barantor, on 15 January 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

I can't wait till the Archer comes out and hear what OP thinks....

Me either! Cuz I bought em!

I have no problem with peole fielding LRMs. It's the current method I have been seeing in matches.
Sitting back doing nothing with a mech that has nothing more than LRMs and ammo is the problem.

[C E Dwyer]

I don't care, i'm not planning on logging on during the event

[C E Dwyer]

DjPush, on 15 January 2016 - 12:52 PM, said:

Me either! Cuz I bought em!

I have no problem with peole fielding LRMs. It's the current method I have been seeing in matches.
Sitting back doing nothing with a mech that has nothing more than LRMs and ammo is the problem.

Bad LRM players will be bad LRM players, PGI promotes this kind of crap play though with their most damage kill idiocy, so can hardly blame them, for letting others take the hits.

might be an idea to let the lrm boats on your team know the best ranges are 200-300 and that you can do better if you can see what your aiming at

[pbiggz]

Cathy, on 15 January 2016 - 12:57 PM, said:

Bad LRM players will be bad LRM players, PGI promotes this kind of crap play though with their most damage kill idiocy, so can hardly blame them, for letting others take the hits.

might be an idea to let the lrm boats on your team know the best ranges are 200-300 and that you can do better if you can see what your aiming at

How about instead of arguing about how you SHOULD play LRM boats (you shouldn't play lrm boats /argument) you tell PGI to fix LRMs instead

No shared targetting
Fire and forget

[wanderer]

Removing indirect fire doesn't "fix" LRMs.

It simply removes indirect fire weapons from the game, something we actually need -more- of if you're ever going to get rid of endless pokefests.

Mortars. Arrow IV systems. Artillery cannons.

I'm dreadfully sorry if your massively superior in TTK direct-fire weaponry can't do everything in MWO. And I'm not at all sorry that I can lob missiles because heaven help us, a light 'Mech might actually be -spotting- or miracle above, used a NARC. And an entire pantheon forfend that the game have weapon systems that fire in an arc over things vs. having to go -through- your wunderbar indestructible cover exist.

[pbiggz]

wanderer, on 15 January 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

Removing indirect fire doesn't "fix" LRMs.

It simply removes indirect fire weapons from the game, something we actually need -more- of if you're ever going to get rid of endless pokefests.

Mortars. Arrow IV systems. Artillery cannons.

I'm dreadfully sorry if your massively superior in TTK direct-fire weaponry can't do everything in MWO. And I'm not at all sorry that I can lob missiles because heaven help us, a light 'Mech might actually be -spotting- or miracle above, used a NARC. And an entire pantheon forfend that the game have weapon systems that fire in an arc over things vs. having to go -through- your wunderbar indestructible cover exist.

Dude shut up. Removing shared targetting comes with adding in fire and forget, a massive buff, but you obviously didn't read my entire post. If medium pulse lasers required someone ELSE on your team to tag a target before they could hit that target they would be ****. Same is true for LRMs, they're the only weapon in the game that effectively requires you to have a team mate with decreased firepower just so YOU can spread damage inefficiently, and even so, all I have to do is step slightly to the side, and your LRM 60 slams into the ground harmlessly.


LRMs are far more effective when they're fire and forget. But if they were fire and forget AND you could share targetting info they would be potentially overpowered. If you eliminate free shared locks then its far easier to make the system work.

You could explore options from there like bringing shared targetting in but only to those players who are mounting c3 slave computers. Right now we all implicitly have C3 slave/master computers for free, that **** normally costs tonnage.


TLDR: battered wife syndrom. LRMs are the abusive husband and you are the battered wife. Please leave this toxic relationship and get help. LRMs don't have to suck but as long as you keep pretending they are good, they will never be fixed.

Edited by pbiggz, 15 January 2016 - 01:34 PM.

[himself]

I think cLRMs should have an activation range (25m or 50m?) and IS should have a shorter one (100m?)

I find cLRM boats are all too eager to go face to face and IS ones are too scared because of unreliable teams.

Just my opinion.

[wanderer]

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adding in fire and forget, a massive buff

What, you mean watching my missiles eat the same unlimited dirt armor you're using to stop the lasers, PPCs, etc coming your way? Seeking or not, the same tactics that defeat LRMs with someone else guiding them in will do it here, too.

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have a team mate with decreased firepower just so YOU can spread damage inefficiently

Now, here's the rub. Perfect convergence meaning the only good weapons are the ones you can put as much damage as possible into one spot as immediately as you can. The literal bane of slowing down kills in MWO. Funny, my sig discusses that.

Quote

Right now we all implicitly have C3 slave/master computers for free

Have you ever even USED a C3 system in tabletop? If we had those, I could have someone walk up to your Atlas and aim for it's eye-cockpit from 800m as if I was in nose-picking range.

Spotting for IDF in tabletop can be done by an infantryman with a walkie-talkie, never mind another 'Mech.

You want improvements?

1) Increasing missile velocity with distance traveled: Suddenly, LRMs actually have reasonable accuracy at longer ranges.
2) Make radar dep the reverse of advanced target retention, rather than canceling a lock instantly.
3) Increase NARC velocity and beacon time. Give bonuses along the lines of TAG damage to the guy who sticks a beacon.
4) Fix convergence so you can't instantly, perfectly get every gun going towards the same pixel without a red Dorito. You want broken,it's a system that wasn't supposed to have snapshot 50+ damage insta-strikes which has had to deal with them because PGI cannot into dynamic convergence. LRMs and other spread weapons wouldn't be so inefficient by comparison if those weapons hadn't been made OVERefficient. Heck, we have a 3000xp Mech skill that's useless because there's not even binary convergence in the game at this point.

[StonedVet]

+1 for a worthless thread. ZOMG the lurm specialists are out in force for this event ... Queue up the end of the world.

Cry moar people ... Either accept the fact these people are on your team and at least try to assist them or just don't log on for the event duration.

[pbiggz]

wanderer, on 15 January 2016 - 01:59 PM, said:

What, you mean watching my missiles eat the same unlimited dirt armor you're using to stop the lasers, PPCs, etc coming your way? Seeking or not, the same tactics that defeat LRMs with someone else guiding them in will do it here, too.



Now, here's the rub. Perfect convergence meaning the only good weapons are the ones you can put as much damage as possible into one spot as immediately as you can. The literal bane of slowing down kills in MWO. Funny, my sig discusses that.


Have you ever even USED a C3 system in tabletop? If we had those, I could have someone walk up to your Atlas and aim for it's eye-cockpit from 800m as if I was in nose-picking range.

Spotting for IDF in tabletop can be done by an infantryman with a walkie-talkie, never mind another 'Mech.

You want improvements?

1) Increasing missile velocity with distance traveled: Suddenly, LRMs actually have reasonable accuracy at longer ranges.
2) Make radar dep the reverse of advanced target retention, rather than canceling a lock instantly.
3) Increase NARC velocity and beacon time. Give bonuses along the lines of TAG damage to the guy who sticks a beacon.
4) Fix convergence so you can't instantly, perfectly get every gun going towards the same pixel without a red Dorito. You want broken,it's a system that wasn't supposed to have snapshot 50+ damage insta-strikes which has had to deal with them because PGI cannot into dynamic convergence. LRMs and other spread weapons wouldn't be so inefficient by comparison if those weapons hadn't been made OVERefficient. Heck, we have a 3000xp Mech skill that's useless because there's not even binary convergence in the game at this point.

What do you have against fire and forget LRMs? Have you ever played living legends? Where lrms are a powerful supporting weapon? I would assume not.

Also, about the C3, we have free shared targetting info. Thats part of what C3 does. Quite frankly I don't care about the rest of it. We never bring stuff into the game with tabletop values, so I have no idea why you think this is relevant anyway.

My point is that LRMs rely on your entire team building around them for marginal effectiveness. They need to work on a per mech basis first, that means faster flight, fire and forget, and get rid of free shared targeting, that's something that should cost you tonnage.

None of these things are complicated to understand, if you don't like them, then im sorry, you can continue to enjoy your ****** half implemented LRMs. I will step to the side, you will miss every shot, and i'll core you out.

Git Gud, stop using LRMs until PGI fixes them.

[Ted Wayz]

DjPush, on 14 January 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

Seriously. Can I report LRM boats for non-participation? I have lost the last 4 matches in a row because half the team is sitting in the backfield lobbing LRMs. Half of which are missing target because they lose lock during the 900 meter travel time of each missile barage.

Seriously folks.. You're a liability relying on just LRMs to get your damage in.

Aren't you the guy who recently left for like a week after making sure everyone knew you were leaving only to return and let everyone know you were back?


I guess that week gap explains why you haven't kept up with the 1000 posts about this subject.

And I must be doing it wrong. I keep getting top score in my LRM25 Kintaro. Can someone please let me know how to be more ineffective?

[wanderer]

Quote

What do you have against fire and forget LRMs? Have you ever played living legends? Where lrms are a powerful supporting weapon? I would assume not.

Easy. It means I can't park myself in the middle of a firing line and literally drop missiles across cover and terrain that would block virtually my entire firing arc otherwise. Which is the entire point to an indirect fire weapon- it defeats cover. A mortar isn't a 40mm gun- but when the mortar shell can deliver over a hill and the 40mm is just chewing up enbankments, you want the mortar.

Quote

Also, about the C3, we have free shared targetting info. Thats part of what C3 does

Actually, no. If it really was "free shared targeting info", I could use your crosshairs for my guns and aim em that way. Calling in an indirect missile strike is "there's X target at Y, lob your missiles at it" and your LRM launcher delivers a barrage to that spot, much like a teeny-weeny artillery barrage. That it can update that guidance with minimal data (that is, someone looking at you) is it.

Again, you're talking the difference between tons of complex networking equipment and Joe Grunt calling in a strike. My LRMs do not magically follow the spotter's crosshairs, nor can I tell my not-so-smart missiles to aim beyond dropping in a preprogrammed pattern on the designated target. "Real" C3 was awesome because it meant even a maximum-range shot was as accurate as whoever had the best range in the network. MWO's spotting system? This is stuff we did in WWI.

Quote

My point is that LRMs rely on your entire team building around them for marginal effectiveness. They need to work on a per mech basis first, that means faster flight, fire and forget, and get rid of free shared targeting, that's something that should cost you tonnage.

At which point they're the least-effective direct-fire weapon in the game, and who cares about fire and forget?

You point and click a laser battery and pinpoint-precise damage to your target. Fire and forget at literal lightspeed and best efficiency.

As for tonnage? Any decent lurmboat is packing Artemis. Extra ton per launcher. Beagle probe or ECM hoses you. Another 1.5 tons. Should I mention due to low velocity, LRMs are inaccurate enough to be also the biggest ammo hogs in MWO?

How about we make LRMs better at what they do vs. turning them into a fourth-rate direct-fire weapon system?

[pbiggz]

wanderer, on 15 January 2016 - 04:35 PM, said:

Easy. It means I can't park myself in the middle of a firing line and literally drop missiles across cover and terrain that would block virtually my entire firing arc otherwise. Which is the entire point to an indirect fire weapon- it defeats cover. A mortar isn't a 40mm gun- but when the mortar shell can deliver over a hill and the 40mm is just chewing up enbankments, you want the mortar.



Actually, no. If it really was "free shared targeting info", I could use your crosshairs for my guns and aim em that way. Calling in an indirect missile strike is "there's X target at Y, lob your missiles at it" and your LRM launcher delivers a barrage to that spot, much like a teeny-weeny artillery barrage. That it can update that guidance with minimal data (that is, someone looking at you) is it.

Again, you're talking the difference between tons of complex networking equipment and Joe Grunt calling in a strike. My LRMs do not magically follow the spotter's crosshairs, nor can I tell my not-so-smart missiles to aim beyond dropping in a preprogrammed pattern on the designated target. "Real" C3 was awesome because it meant even a maximum-range shot was as accurate as whoever had the best range in the network. MWO's spotting system? This is stuff we did in WWI.



At which point they're the least-effective direct-fire weapon in the game, and who cares about fire and forget?

You point and click a laser battery and pinpoint-precise damage to your target. Fire and forget at literal lightspeed and best efficiency.

As for tonnage? Any decent lurmboat is packing Artemis. Extra ton per launcher. Beagle probe or ECM hoses you. Another 1.5 tons. Should I mention due to low velocity, LRMs are inaccurate enough to be also the biggest ammo hogs in MWO?

How about we make LRMs better at what they do vs. turning them into a fourth-rate direct-fire weapon system?

My point is they shouldn't be indirect fire weapons unless your donating extra tonnage to it. If you can't accept that then you can continue to enjoy your **** missiles, while I ignore them. Stepping to the side OP.

Edited by pbiggz, 15 January 2016 - 04:47 PM.

[Lyoto Machida]

pbiggz, on 15 January 2016 - 04:45 PM, said:

My point is they shouldn't be indirect fire weapons unless your donating extra tonnage to it. If you can't accept that then you can continue to enjoy your **** missiles, while I ignore them. Stepping to the side OP.

Or no indirect without TAG, NARC or UAV up. Of course, PGI would have to incentivize those assisting the LRM mechs but they'd most likely implement it terribly somehow.