190 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

I can imagine you are clueless in all of this if you think IS is not absolutely equal footing, or better, when you compare best of inner sphere against the best of clans.

EDIT: If you compare the middle of the pack to the not top tier clan gundams...then the 'sphere is likely better across the board. Bad clamz gundams are bad.

They are on equal footing, with a couple IS robots that might by SLIGHTLY better (e.g. too much structure on the Blackjack). Its hardly insurmountable, just play SLIGHTLY better than the other team and carry on. If you lose like 46 to 48, you can say that if they toned down the Blackjacks it would have gone differently. If you lose 28 to 48, you got outplayed.

[pwnface]

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

"Shutup pwnface" #UACsjam

How do you like that {Richard Cameron}??

I do not see anyone going around asking "what does pwnface think?".

Nobody cares wtf you think, he is just as entitled to his thoughts on it as you are. You are both equally right and equally wrong.

If you do not like what he has to say...then STFU and click the next thread. How about that?

"Shutup pwnface" #UACsjam

This is a huge dodge of the DPS issue that Gyrok specifically points out. If you are going to compare DPS to DPS, UAC jam chance is irrelevant since it's already factored into the overall DPS numbers.

Did you even look at the Mauler build that he put together to prove his point?
We are definitely NOT equally right and equally wrong.

How about you try to think objectively for a moment?

When people make clearly biased threads to try to push their agenda to buff clan mechs they get called on it.
This is what Gyrok does.

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

I can imagine you are clueless in all of this if you think IS is not absolutely equal footing, or better, when you compare best of inner sphere against the best of clans.

EDIT: If you compare the middle of the pack to the not top tier clan gundams...then the 'sphere is likely better across the board. Bad clamz gundams are bad.

Actually, we play both clan and IS mechs frequently and aren't biased die hard clan fanboys like Gyrok. You'll notice the majority of people think IS vs Clan balance is in a pretty good place right now. When people cry about IS tech being superior and then use the King Crab as an example as a mech better than the Dire Wolf, they get called out.

Maybe you should spend less time gargling Gyrok's nuts in your mouth and complaining about "OP IS mechs".

Edited by pwnface, 22 January 2016 - 09:33 AM.

[Wraith31]

pwnface, on 22 January 2016 - 09:26 AM, said:

"Shutup pwnface" #UACsjam

This is a huge dodge of the DPS issue that Gyrok specifically points out. If you are going to compare DPS to DPS, UAC jam chance is irrelevant since it's already factored into the overall DPS numbers.

Did you even look at the Mauler build that he put together to prove his point?
We are definitely NOT equally right and equally wrong.

How about you try to think objectively for a moment?

When people make clearly biased threads to try to push their agenda to buff clan mechs they get called on it.
This is what Gyrok does.



Actually, we play both clan and IS mechs frequently and aren't biased die hard clan fanboys like Gyrok. You'll notice the majority of people think IS vs Clan balance is in a pretty good place right now. When people cry about IS tech being superior and then use the King Crab as an example as a mech better than the Dire Wolf, they get called out.

Maybe you should spend less time gargling Gyrok's nuts in your mouth and complaining about "OP IS mechs".

I was pointing out your snarky attitude is ********.

Have an intelligent discussion, or STFU.

Everyone here is entitled to think or say what they want, and you being an ****** about it does absolutely nothing productive.

His point was there are comparable 'sphere gundams. To be fair, there is some hyperbole in there...but the statements have a ring of truth. Just as your comment that the DWF is the best assault in the game is dripping with hyperbole as well and has a ring of truth to it. You have a point in one area, while his points are in another area.

I am no Gyrok fan, but I am not about to sit back and watch someone let some emotional response cloud their judgement and start ad hominem attacks on anyone. If you can debunk his argument that the KGC and Atlas and Mauler are not mechs that have advantages in specific cases against the DWF, then do it. If you cannot disprove his points about mobility and armor quirks...then STFU. I am tired of seeing posts like "shut up XXXXX".

Discussion about the game to improve it should be productive, and you're not helping your own case at all by being a douche canoe.

Edited by Wraith31, 22 January 2016 - 11:55 AM.

[Wraith31]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 January 2016 - 09:13 AM, said:

They are on equal footing, with a couple IS robots that might by SLIGHTLY better (e.g. too much structure on the Blackjack). Its hardly insurmountable, just play SLIGHTLY better than the other team and carry on. If you lose like 46 to 48, you can say that if they toned down the Blackjacks it would have gone differently. If you lose 28 to 48, you got outplayed.

So, you are telling me that the average 'sphere gundam is equal footing to a clan gundam like the mist lynx? How about a 'sphere gundam that is equal footing to the kit fox? Ice Ferret? Gargoyle?

There are a few that have a niche role in a pug type scenario...but those above are the biggest losers by far. Those gundams are bad, and you cannot point to a 'sphere gundam that is worse off than most if not all of those.

[pwnface]

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

So, you are telling me that the average 'sphere gundam is equal footing to a clan gundam like the mist lynx? How about a 'sphere gundam that is equal footing to the kit fox? Ice Ferret? Gargoyle?

There are a few that have a niche role in a pug type scenario...but those above are the biggest losers by far. Those gundams are bad, and you cannot point to a 'sphere gundam that is worse off than most if not all of those.

Why would you compare an average IS mech to one of the worst clan mechs? This is a biased comparison to begin with.

You should be comparing either best to best, worst to worst, or average to average.

Is the Myst Lynx or Kit Fox any worse off than the SDR-5V or PNT-10P? There are bad light chassis on both sides.

Is the Ice Ferret any worse off than ANY of the VND chassis or most of the CDA chassis? There are bad medium chassis on both sides.

Is the Gargoyle any worse off than Victors or Awesomes right now? There are bad assault chassis on both sides.

For someone talking about "intelligent discussion", you sure don't know how to make intelligent comparisons.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

So, you are telling me that the average 'sphere gundam is equal footing to a clan gundam like the mist lynx? How about a 'sphere gundam that is equal footing to the kit fox? Ice Ferret? Gargoyle?

Ice Fart > Crab/Vindi
Gargoyle > Victor
Mist Lynx = Commando

The worst clam robats are still better than the worst IS robats.

[Gas Guzzler]

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

So, you are telling me that the average 'sphere gundam is equal footing to a clan gundam like the mist lynx? How about a 'sphere gundam that is equal footing to the kit fox? Ice Ferret? Gargoyle?

There are a few that have a niche role in a pug type scenario...but those above are the biggest losers by far. Those gundams are bad, and you cannot point to a 'sphere gundam that is worse off than most if not all of those.

So you want to balance around bad Clan robots? That sounds incredibly stupid.

You have to look at best vs best. The fact that there is a large spectrum of performance within each faction is a separate issue that needs to be addressed. For now, IS vs Clan balance needs to be based on each factions top performers.

[Mawai]

Gyrok, on 16 January 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

So...

After the patch has had time to marinade for a while, it is time to discuss the insane structure quirks.

The WHR has enough structure quirks to be a 100 ton mech with doubled armor.

Now, that might all be fine and dandy...but when you put up a list of weapon quirks that include things like 10% energy reduction, 5% PPC heat reduction and 50% increased PPC velocity...now you are getting into absurd levels of offense and absurd levels of armor.

To wit, the HBR has similar hitboxes and likely similar size model (surprise surprise there, right?), and it has zero structure quirks, and zero weapon quirks.

The point being, the scale has been tipped to the IS side strongly. It is time we address the issue.

EDIT: There are others as well...like the BJ and TDR that are riding the line for absurd survival and offensive capability.

Where are your stats and numbers? Can you show me that the WHR is way better than an HBR?

You know who has these numbers? PGI.

Presumably they look at these numbers when trying to decide what quirks to add. The main reason that so many IS mechs have structure quirks is due to the higher alpha capability of clan weapons. Is it balanced? I have no idea but I would have to say that I don't think "the scale has been tipped to the IS side strongly". A lot of clan players complain when IS is buffed to even the playing field ... maybe because they aren't that great as players and find that they can't stomp as easily in their clan mechs ... maybe they honestly believe IS may have been buffed too far. Anyway, after a month and a hundred thousand or so matches, PGI should have the cumulative data by tier on how each mech is performing. Average Kills, Assists, KMDD, Solo kill, total damage on a chassis by chassis basis for every tier ... on that basis they can then look at the numbers and ask ... is a WHM outperforming an HBR (or whatever mech should be comparable) with the current balance of weapons and quirks.

[pwnface]

The real comparisons should actually be the best of clan vs the best of IS. As far as tech vs tech goes, if you are bringing a sub-optimal loadout you can only blame yourself not the tech. So, let's compare some mechs shall we?

Lights:
FS9 vs ACH

FS9 gets slightly more speed and slightly more sustained firepower
ACH gets ECM, clan XL engine, and slightly bigger alpha strikes.

This seems pretty fair to me. Advantages are situational and I don't think either mech has a huge margin over the other.

Mediums:
BJ-1X vs SCR

BJ has better mid-range damage potential and more survivability due to overtuned structure quirks. (Survivability has already been called out as an outlier and will be nerfed soon).

SCR has more build options and can outperform a BJ-1X in certain situations.
SPL boating makes it a superior brawler. Streak boating makes it better for anti-light duty. Standard meta builds give it an advantage over the BJ-1X in range.

Overall the overtuned structure quirks make the BJ-1X a better pick currently for most situations.

Heavys:
I don't think there is a definite "best" mech on the IS side currently, there are chassis that excel at certain roles.
QKD-5K is great for ERLL boating and can beat anything the clan can field for extreme long range.
EBJ or TBR with 3xLPL is great for mid-long range and can dominate at 600-700m range.
BLK-6-KNT is probably the best mid-range IS heavy and is slightly stronger than the meta EBJ/TBR builds.
SPL + SRM TBR is in my opinion still the strongest heavy brawler.

Is clan or IS side stronger for heavys? I think it depends on what you want to do with them. No side is inherently stronger, you can make builds work for whatever strategy you want.

Assaults
DWF or EXE vs Mauler or BNC-3M

As far as pure firepower goes, nothing beats the DWF. The KGC that Gyrok has been saying is "as good as the DWF" simply isn't. Not even close. The Mauler is the closest to the DWF if you want a pure DPS build and needs to make serious tradeoffs in survivability if it wants to keep up in damage potential.

The BNC-3M is better than the DWF at laser vomit trading corners for obvious reasons. However, the EXE actually excels at this role also. The BNC-3M basically gets shorter burn times and slightly more heat efficient damage at the tradeoff of range, MASC, and clan XL engine. I prefer the BNC-3M personally, but then again Gas Guzzler has pulled 4300 damage in a CW drop out of a single Executioner and I can't argue it's effectiveness.

What Assault is the best? Depends on pilot preference and role IMO.

Do you disagree with any of my assessments? Please show me where the IS mechs are flat out better than clan options. I think you'll find that if you look at the chassis objectively, balance is pretty good right now overall.

Edited by pwnface, 22 January 2016 - 12:44 PM.

[Josef Koba]

Bishop Steiner, on 16 January 2016 - 10:11 PM, said:

OK, not really, lol

Can't believe how often I've been seeing this song referenced lately. Didn't realize that many people listened to pre-Mike Patton Faith No More. That song is fantastic, though.

[Wraith31]

pwnface, on 22 January 2016 - 12:07 PM, said:

Why would you compare an average IS mech to one of the worst clan mechs? This is a biased comparison to begin with.

You should be comparing either best to best, worst to worst, or average to average.

Is the Myst Lynx or Kit Fox any worse off than the SDR-5V or PNT-10P? There are bad light chassis on both sides.

Is the Ice Ferret any worse off than ANY of the VND chassis or most of the CDA chassis? There are bad medium chassis on both sides.

Is the Gargoyle any worse off than Victors or Awesomes right now? There are bad assault chassis on both sides.

For someone talking about "intelligent discussion", you sure don't know how to make intelligent comparisons.

What "average" clam gundams are there? Every mech is either top tier or below average.

You have these gundams that are good:
TBR
EBJ
SCR
HBR
ACH

These gundams that are situational:
DWF
SHC
JR7-IIC
HBK-IIC

These gundams are just bad:
SMN
ADR
MDD
WHK
GAR
IFR
MLX
KFX
EXE
HGN-IIC
ON1-IIC

The 'sphere has tons of gundams that are good, and lots more that are situational or better.

As for your comparisons for 'mechs:

That panther is no worse off than the single missile + single ballistic Nova, and both the spider and panther are both at least fast. The kit fox is the same speed as an urbie with a model the size of a cicada, and fewer quirks than either 'sphere gundam. To be quite honest...the main claim to fame for the kit fox is the triple AMS build. Do I really need to say more than the mech was known for being a walking AMS carrier?

As for the vindicator...I know some of those had (had may be an operative word, going from memory here...) good PPC quirks. Not BJ level quirks, but good enough, VND is not a terrible chassis compared to a gundam that weighs the same tonnage, has 8-9 tons of space for weapons, and no variants with jets at all. The SHC is actually not a great mech, but not terrible either, probably 2 more energy hardpoints would make it a solid chassis.

The CDA, seriously? The 3M is great, and the X5 is the sniping gundam in the medium class...979m effective range on 'sphere ERLLs? You have to be stupid to think that outdamaging clans outright at the limit of your effective range and beyond is a bad thing. The others are not so bad...either the 2A or 2B has good pulse laser quirks, the other decent ML quirks.

The gargoyle can only carry 20 tons of weapons compared to the VTR and AWS that can carry significantly more. Let me rephrase my original question...

What would you think if I told you the summoner was going to cost 80 tons in your dropdeck instead of 70, was going to be as big as an atlas with even lower mounted hardpoints, and no jump jets at all, but bring the same tonnage for weapons? (gargoyle)

What would you think if I told you the mech above can now change engines and bring 50-100% more guns, had better hardpoint locations, and got some buffs to structure and a couple of weapon groups, and some could bring jets? (VTR/AWS)

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

What "average" clam gundams are there? Every mech is either top tier or below average.

You have these gundams that are good:
TBR
EBJ
SCR
HBR
ACH

These gundams that are situational:
DWF
EXE
WHK
GAR
SMN
MDD
HBK-IIC
SHC
ADR
KFX

These gundams are just bad:
IFR
MLX

Too soon to call:
JR7-IIC
HGN-IIC
ON1-IIC

FTFY

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 22 January 2016 - 03:00 PM.

[Wraith31]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 22 January 2016 - 03:00 PM, said:

FTFY

You must be smoking something.

When was the last time you saw any of the extra situational mechs you added ever even considered for a comp league drop?

[Gyrok]

Mawai, on 22 January 2016 - 12:30 PM, said:

Where are your stats and numbers? Can you show me that the WHR is way better than an HBR?

You know who has these numbers? PGI.

Presumably they look at these numbers when trying to decide what quirks to add. The main reason that so many IS mechs have structure quirks is due to the higher alpha capability of clan weapons. Is it balanced? I have no idea but I would have to say that I don't think "the scale has been tipped to the IS side strongly". A lot of clan players complain when IS is buffed to even the playing field ... maybe because they aren't that great as players and find that they can't stomp as easily in their clan mechs ... maybe they honestly believe IS may have been buffed too far. Anyway, after a month and a hundred thousand or so matches, PGI should have the cumulative data by tier on how each mech is performing. Average Kills, Assists, KMDD, Solo kill, total damage on a chassis by chassis basis for every tier ... on that basis they can then look at the numbers and ask ... is a WHM outperforming an HBR (or whatever mech should be comparable) with the current balance of weapons and quirks.

If you think PGI has done anything useful with data running through the servers...you are deluding yourself.

Do you realize what PSR is? A slightly modified elo sold to the masses as the answer to all the MM problems.

I asked Russ on twitter for lots of stats from Tuk1 that would have been extremely valuable to discern what the actual effectiveness of clan units versus IS units would be in comparison by tracking PUG numbers. PGI did not have the data parsed for PUGs versus units...they might now...but how much was wasted?

They always use CW as the "thermometer" for balance, and yet all the power gamer units go clans to get faster drops and play more matches against PUGs and skew the skill average drastically in favor of clans every time. In spite of it, it is precisely that data that is justified as being reason to make balance changes to clans.

There is so much data that PGI *could* have, and do not...

So, if you assume that PGI has some infinite wealth of data; then, as someone who knows first hand, let me break this down for you:

You can have all the relevant data in the world, if you cannot properly process it, parse it, break it down, and pull out what is actually useful to view as a metric...then all that relevant data is as useful as a wad of chewed gum stuck to the bottom of the handrail in the mall.

Edited by Gyrok, 22 January 2016 - 03:14 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 03:04 PM, said:

You must be smoking something.

When was the last time you saw any of the extra situational mechs you added ever even considered for a comp league drop?

Kit Foxes/Adders with splat are actually nice in super light drops (4/4/0/0 esque drops), not better than Oxides, but better than FS9-As at the brawl.

Shadow Cat's are used when you need tonnage and aren't too worried about mediums, or ERLL since they have better mounts for SCrows without much real sacrifice for firepower, granted IS ERLL is better.

Executioner and Warhawk are still middle of the road assaults, they aren't great, but they aren't Victor level of bad.
Gargoyle is very niche, it is surprisingly powerful at the brawl, it is getting in close that is the hard part. Still I would take it for brawling over the VTR-9S despite the lack of JJs. Kind of makes me want to science Gargoyles with Atlas pushes.

Mad Dog and Summoner we have been testing out as brawlers lately. Mad Dog has the BEST firepower capability in the brawl (the convergence on SRMs are amazing), but still suffers from being squishy, taking one in the mix of Timby brawlers is viable and worthwhile. SRMmoners are also suitable replacements for Timbies at the brawl, they have larger leg hitboxes which is unfortunate but their firepower and torso durability keep them in the fight surprisingly long.

Hunchie IIC and Whale don't need explaining.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 22 January 2016 - 03:15 PM.

[Scout Derek]

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

What "average" clam gundams are there? Every mech is either top tier or below average.

You have these gundams that are good:
TBR
EBJ
SCR
HBR
ACH

These gundams that are situational:
DWF
SHC
JR7-IIC
HBK-IIC

These gundams are just bad:
SMN
ADR
MDD
WHK
GAR
IFR
MLX
KFX
EXE
HGN-IIC
ON1-IIC

The 'sphere has tons of gundams that are good, and lots more that are situational or better.

As for your comparisons for 'mechs:

That panther is no worse off than the single missile + single ballistic Nova, and both the spider and panther are both at least fast. The kit fox is the same speed as an urbie with a model the size of a cicada, and fewer quirks than either 'sphere gundam. To be quite honest...the main claim to fame for the kit fox is the triple AMS build. Do I really need to say more than the mech was known for being a walking AMS carrier?

As for the vindicator...I know some of those had (had may be an operative word, going from memory here...) good PPC quirks. Not BJ level quirks, but good enough, VND is not a terrible chassis compared to a gundam that weighs the same tonnage, has 8-9 tons of space for weapons, and no variants with jets at all. The SHC is actually not a great mech, but not terrible either, probably 2 more energy hardpoints would make it a solid chassis.

The CDA, seriously? The 3M is great, and the X5 is the sniping gundam in the medium class...979m effective range on 'sphere ERLLs? You have to be stupid to think that outdamaging clans outright at the limit of your effective range and beyond is a bad thing. The others are not so bad...either the 2A or 2B has good pulse laser quirks, the other decent ML quirks.

The gargoyle can only carry 20 tons of weapons compared to the VTR and AWS that can carry significantly more. Let me rephrase my original question...

What would you think if I told you the summoner was going to cost 80 tons in your dropdeck instead of 70, was going to be as big as an atlas with even lower mounted hardpoints, and no jump jets at all, but bring the same tonnage for weapons? (gargoyle)

What would you think if I told you the mech above can now change engines and bring 50-100% more guns, had better hardpoint locations, and got some buffs to structure and a couple of weapon groups, and some could bring jets? (VTR/AWS)

Don't make me laugh on the Orion IIC being bad, it's rather good actually.

Pulling 600+ damage games along with 3-4 kills most of the time makes it my favorite gundam to use on the battlefield.

Executioner too, it's a good gundam as well, and the Warhawk, and the Maddog.....

Maybe it's because you haven't adjusted to their playstyles very well?

Per say, the ON1-IIC is made for burst damage; move out of cover, alpha, and then go back into hiding, or to move from cover to cover alphaing everything it's got: a 83~ with a UAC/20, 3SRM6+A, and 3ML.

Or the Maddog, it's mainly a support mech, or a anti light killer.

In fact, this is probably a controversial saying depending on how you look at it, but:

No mechs are bad, only the pilot is.

[pwnface]

Scout Derek, on 22 January 2016 - 03:24 PM, said:

No mechs are bad, only the pilot is.

That's a lie. There are plenty of bad mechs.

[Onimusha shin]

pwnface, on 22 January 2016 - 03:45 PM, said:

That's a lie. There are plenty of bad mechs.

Yeah, I'd have to agree with pwnface. I mean, all mechs are workable, in the right situations.

However, comparing the meta mechs to the non meta mechs, I'd revise the list like below.

You have these gundams that are good:
TBR
EBJ
SCR
HBR
ACH

These gundams that are situational:
DWF
SHC (hardpoint starved though, here only coz of ECM)
JR7-IIC
HBK-IIC
ADR
MDD
WHK
GAR
EXE
HGN-IIC
ON1-IIC

These gundams are just bad:
SMN
IFR
MLX
KFX

[pwnface]

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

The 'sphere has tons of gundams that are good, and lots more that are situational or better.

As for your comparisons for 'mechs:

That panther is no worse off than the single missile + single ballistic Nova, and both the spider and panther are both at least fast. The kit fox is the same speed as an urbie with a model the size of a cicada, and fewer quirks than either 'sphere gundam. To be quite honest...the main claim to fame for the kit fox is the triple AMS build. Do I really need to say more than the mech was known for being a walking AMS carrier?

What Nova build runs a single missile and single ballistic hardpoint? I've never seen a Nova built this way.

The PNT-10P and SDR-5V are largely regarded as the absolute worst mechs in the game. In fact there was a thread about the absolute worst mechs in the game and these are the two mechs that came up most frequently.

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

As for the vindicator...I know some of those had (had may be an operative word, going from memory here...) good PPC quirks. Not BJ level quirks, but good enough, VND is not a terrible chassis compared to a gundam that weighs the same tonnage, has 8-9 tons of space for weapons, and no variants with jets at all. The SHC is actually not a great mech, but not terrible either, probably 2 more energy hardpoints would make it a solid chassis.

The VND and SHC both suck currently. I think the vindicators sucks a little bit more than the SHC though.

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

The CDA, seriously? The 3M is great, and the X5 is the sniping gundam in the medium class...979m effective range on 'sphere ERLLs? You have to be stupid to think that outdamaging clans outright at the limit of your effective range and beyond is a bad thing. The others are not so bad...either the 2A or 2B has good pulse laser quirks, the other decent ML quirks.

The CDA-3M is an okay mech. It's not "great" by any means. The X-5 is good for extreme long range poking. The rest of the CDA variants are all underperforming mechs.

Wraith31, on 22 January 2016 - 03:04 PM, said:

You must be smoking something.

When was the last time you saw any of the extra situational mechs you added ever even considered for a comp league drop?

The ADR and KFX are occasionally seen for lighter drops. We saw both of them actually in the last season of MRBC. We also fielded the EXE which you claim is a "bad gundam" in the last season of MRBC. I wouldn't hesitate to field an EXE in a comp drop if the situation warranted it. Both SJR and 228 fielded Warhawks in last season of MRBC, yet you have them labeled as "bad" mechs.

It's funny that you mention comp league drops in your arguments here. Are you part of a comp team playing in these leagues? I have no idea who you are or what team you play for. I do know that Quicksilver Kalasa plays for SJR in comp leagues and Gas Guzzler and myself both play on the same team in comp leagues. I'm also, quite literally, the one picking what mechs we field in our competitive matches. The fact that you are arguing "I don't see them in comp leagues" when we are the people playing in those leagues is mildly amusing.

[pwnface]

Onimusha shin, on 22 January 2016 - 04:12 PM, said:

Yeah, I'd have to agree with pwnface. I mean, all mechs are workable, in the right situations.

However, comparing the meta mechs to the non meta mechs, I'd revise the list like below.

You have these gundams that are good:
TBR
EBJ
SCR
HBR
ACH

These gundams that are situational:
DWF
SHC (hardpoint starved though, here only coz of ECM)
JR7-IIC
HBK-IIC
ADR
MDD
WHK
GAR
EXE
HGN-IIC
ON1-IIC

These gundams are just bad:
SMN
IFR
MLX
KFX

This is a much more accurate list although I can't think of a situation where I'd want to take a MDD. Unless you absolutely need to have a 60t mech, there are better brawler builds available in both the 75t TBR (weight class restriction) and the 55t SCR (tonnage restriction).