23 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

So the standard CAC is basically useless compared to a CUAC from what I've seen. Its the same weapon but you have the ability to multi-tap with a CUAC. The Clan's LBX AC was supposed to be a single slug/shot combo weapon with the ability to switch between ammo types, but who know if that will ever happen...so...

Why not make the standard CACs single round weapons? They already suffer from the long cooldown and have no ability to multi-tap, so why not return them to their IS counterpart's firing method and give them a use? You'd then have PPFLD CACs, multi-shot CUACs with the ability to multi-tap, and then LBX with single spread shots and higher crit chance.

In all honesty the CACs need some love, they're completely useless...

[Narcissistic Martyr]

MauttyKoray, on 18 January 2016 - 01:53 AM, said:

So the standard CAC is basically useless compared to a CUAC from what I've seen. Its the same weapon but you have the ability to multi-tap with a CUAC. The Clan's LBX AC was supposed to be a single slug/shot combo weapon with the ability to switch between ammo types, but who know if that will ever happen...so...

Why not make the standard CACs single round weapons? They already suffer from the long cooldown and have no ability to multi-tap, so why not return them to their IS counterpart's firing method and give them a use? You'd then have PPFLD CACs, multi-shot CUACs with the ability to multi-tap, and then LBX with single spread shots and higher crit chance.

In all honesty the CACs need some love, they're completely useless...

They are a place holder for LBX switching between slug and scatter rounds.

[Navid A1]

CACs do have a purpose. They are the eternal symbols of PGI's coding capability.

But seriously, if anything needs fixing, it is the ridiculous jamming of UACs. The Jam chance should increase gradually after each double tap.

And something needs to be done to LBXs to make them suck less

Edited by Navid A1, 18 January 2016 - 02:02 AM.

[SQW]

Navid A1, on 18 January 2016 - 02:01 AM, said:

CACs do have a purpose. They are the eternal symbols of PGI's coding capability.

But seriously, if anything needs fixing, it is the ridiculous jamming of UACs. The Jam chance should increase gradually after each double tap.

And something needs to be done to LBXs to make them suck less

What's with all the hate for LB-Xs? Of course it's inferior to ACs if you try to use it to score pin point dmg like an AC. It's like asking if a shotgun is better than a rifle at a 400m rifle range.

Personally, I prefer the LB-X with the extra ton of ammo, faster reload and less heat; I just to have prioritize damaged mechs over solo hunting. Also, while AC10 might have a better chance of knocking out a component outright, LB-X has a better chance of crit actually occurring. In AC10, I'm hunting for a kill, in LB-X, I'm hunting for an ammo explosion.

[Mcgral18]

Normalize the cooldowns (4.7s+0.33 burst=5.03s cooldown on the cAC20)
Buff projectile speed
Keep the burst


Differentiate them, give the cAC20 a 3.8s cooldown (plus 0.33s burst) and a faster velocity to land shells easier.
Currently 650M/s, but I wouldn't be against closer to 1KM/s. The burst makes them objectively worse than the isACs, still with a slower cooldown, but 2 tons lighter and 1 Crit smaller.

[El Bandito]

SQW, on 18 January 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

Personally, I prefer the LB-X with the extra ton of ammo, faster reload and less heat; I just to have prioritize damaged mechs over solo hunting. Also, while AC10 might have a better chance of knocking out a component outright, LB-X has a better chance of crit actually occurring. In AC10, I'm hunting for a kill, in LB-X, I'm hunting for an ammo explosion.

Another lost soul that needs to be saved from the LBX trap!

Edited by El Bandito, 18 January 2016 - 08:52 PM.

[Hillslam]

If clan ACs (ultra, LB-X or otherwise) were gifted IS PPFLD with the current crit space and weight tonnage that they are?....

Pfffft (spit-take) this game would be over real quick.

[FupDup]

SQW, on 18 January 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

What's with all the hate for LB-Xs? Of course it's inferior to ACs if you try to use it to score pin point dmg like an AC. It's like asking if a shotgun is better than a rifle at a 400m rifle range.

Personally, I prefer the LB-X with the extra ton of ammo, faster reload and less heat; I just to have prioritize damaged mechs over solo hunting. Also, while AC10 might have a better chance of knocking out a component outright, LB-X has a better chance of crit actually occurring. In AC10, I'm hunting for a kill, in LB-X, I'm hunting for an ammo explosion.

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 18 January 2016 - 08:53 PM, said:

This meme will never retire in our hearts.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

El Bandito, on 18 January 2016 - 08:51 PM, said:

Another lost soul that needs to be saved from the LBX trap!

The trap that they sound 100% more bad *** than any other autocannon?

[FupDup]

Narcissistic Martyr, on 18 January 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

The trap that they sound 100% more bad *** than any other autocannon?

Unfortunately, sound alone doesn't kill red team gundams.

[LordNothing]

they are useful to reduce heat in some ballistic builds. but i kind of think behavior wise they need their own unique flare.

i kind of want a continuous firing weapon with a slower refire rate but a shorter cooldown. keep the burst mechanic, except i think the ac should get more projectiles/burst than uac. more face time but better for suppression and distant target leading.

ac2 would fire a 1 damage shell every 0.36 seconds for continuous fire.
ac5 would fire a 2.5 damage shell in 2 shot burst at a 0.6 second interval with a 0.6 second cd.
ac10 would fire a 3.3 damage shell in a 3 shot burst at a 0.58 second interval with a 1.16 second cooldown
ac20 would fire a 5 damage shell in a 4 shot burst with a 0.67 second interval with a 2 second cooldown
dps is approximately the same as it is now.

i also notice that the is ac5 and uac5 have the same cooldown, but the clan version adds an extra 0.14 seconds of cooldown for the ac. maybe those should be normalized. this is the kind of quick fix alternative to doing something in a different and creative way.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 January 2016 - 09:12 PM.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

FupDup, on 18 January 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

Unfortunately, sound alone doesn't kill red team gundams.

And?

LBX10 isn't as good as an AC10. 2LBx10 however is awesome and fits in a side torso quite neatly. It's still a joke build but a fun one.

[J0anna]

Mcgral18, on 18 January 2016 - 08:47 PM, said:

Normalize the cooldowns (4.7s+0.33 burst=5.03s cooldown on the cAC20)
Buff projectile speed
Keep the burst


Differentiate them, give the cAC20 a 3.8s cooldown (plus 0.33s burst) and a faster velocity to land shells easier.
Currently 650M/s, but I wouldn't be against closer to 1KM/s. The burst makes them objectively worse than the isACs, still with a slower cooldown, but 2 tons lighter and 1 Crit smaller.

You can't compare weapon 'a' to weapon 'b', you must compare mechs. Under your assumption IF a CAC 20 was a single slug it would always be better than a IS AC20, since the IS AC20 weighs more and takes up more slots. However put that IS AC 20 on a AS7-D and it gets a 15% increase in ROF and a 5% increase in shell speed. So the cycle time drops to 3.40 for the AC20.

That's what direct weapon comparison misses, under PGI's system you must take quirks into the equation. As most weapons are used on quirked mechs. PGI is using quirks to balance the imbalanced weapons, perhaps you disagree with their logic, but that is what they are doing. Comparing clan weapon 'a' to IS weapon 'a' in a vacuum is pointless, IS weapons get quirks. Quirks are what makes up for the built in weapon imbalances.

Look at the weapons when mounted on a mech. No clan mech deserves a 15% boost to ballistic weapon cooldown. Balance mechs around the endpoint, because that's what PGI does.

Edited by Moenrg, 18 January 2016 - 09:35 PM.

[SQW]

El Bandito, on 18 January 2016 - 08:51 PM, said:

Another lost soul that needs to be saved from the LBX trap!

I've also heard plenty of tier 1 vets who swear on their mother's grave that poking from cover with a meta build the whole game is the only way to play MWO.

I've tried AC10 and found LB-X just serves me much better with my play style in the one mech I have equipped. Might not be the best min-max build on paper but it does well for me.

[LordNothing]

while lb autos will never shake their meme, i still think something needs to be done to make them more useful. lb-10 is a weapon i use when i just cant find that extra ton for an ac10, and at that point might as well check and see if the chassis has an ultra ac quirk, maybe i can equip a uac5 instead. i do like the 10 class because that ammo buff usually only means i need 2 tons ammo, which frees up space in the legs/head for additional ammo for other weapons like srms. they also fit nicely under a lower arm actuator.

i find the problem with the gun is that while it does have crit damage, it is spread out too much. they need to bring it the spread so its roughly the size of a medium mech when its at its max optimal range. for lb2s and 5s the pellet count needs to go up. seriously the ac2 only fires 2 pellets, so bump the ac2 up to 6 pellets and the 5 up to 8, 10 and 20 can stay where they are. i dont know if it is or not but every pellet should get a crit chance. so if 2 pellets hit a section it should double the crit probability. make it the finisher it was meant to be.

Edited by LordNothing, 18 January 2016 - 11:20 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

LordNothing, on 18 January 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

while lb autos will never shake their meme, i still think something needs to be done to make them more useful. lb-10 is a weapon i use when i just cant find that extra ton for an ac10, and at that point might as well check and see if the chassis has an ultra ac quirk, maybe i can equip a uac5 instead. i do like the 10 class because that ammo buff usually only means i need 2 tons ammo, which frees up space in the legs/head for additional ammo for other weapons like srms. they also fit nicely under a lower arm actuator.

i find the problem with the gun is that while it does have crit damage, it is spread out too much. they need to bring it the spread so its roughly the size of a medium mech when its at its max optimal range. for lb2s and 5s the pellet count needs to go up. seriously the ac2 only fires 2 pellets, so bump the ac2 up to 6 pellets and the 5 up to 8, 10 and 20 can stay where they are. i dont know if it is or not but every pellet should get a crit chance. so if 2 pellets hit a section it should double the crit probability. make it the finisher it was meant to be.

Back on topic....CUACs are useful, even CLBX can be used. But my point is that the CACs are LITERALLY USELESS. They're nothing but WORSE CUACs.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 21 January 2016 - 01:32 AM.

[Cyborne Elemental]

What I would like to see is this.

Get CAC to match the same cooldowns as the IS versions. fair and equal.

Then get a working jam mechanic that doesn't involve DiceRolls, or at least not at a fixed rate for every burst you try.
Give all UAC a slightly longer cooldown than normal AC's because they're capable of double DPS as is.

and thats it.

[LordNothing]

MauttyKoray, on 21 January 2016 - 01:31 AM, said:

Back on topic....CUACs are useful, even CLBX can be used. But my point is that the CACs are LITERALLY USELESS. They're nothing but WORSE CUACs.

i gave my opinion on acs further up the thread. yes they need something, for example normalize their cooldowns to at least where clan ultras are, like is done for the is version. i kind of interested in making them a niche weapon, like being capable of more or less continuous fire but with a longer burst interval but a shorter cooldown. with the ac2 being essentially an ac1 with twice the rate of fire as the is version. bigger guns increasing their cool down by 1 burst interval each step up from there.

ac2 boom boom boom boom boom boom
ac5 boom boom pause boom boom pause
ac10 boom boom boom pause pause boom boom boom pause pause
ac20 boom boom boom boom pause pause pause boom boom boom boom pause pause pause

would be cool if the fire rate were doubled down the board, but the shell damage halved. then shells would also have higher velocity than your clan ultra. would be great for holding dakka on fast moving targets.

Edited by LordNothing, 21 January 2016 - 02:13 AM.

[Hotthedd]

I'd rather see IS ACs be burst fire.