76 replies to this topic

[pbiggz]

Tractor Joe, on 19 January 2016 - 05:55 AM, said:

Know the best way to shut down direct fire?
5 lrm5 launchers.

Know the best way to shut down 5 Lrm launchers?

Rocks. Moving slightly to the side, brawling within the minimum range, etc. you are living in a fantasy world.

[WarHippy]

pbiggz, on 18 January 2016 - 05:58 PM, said:

LRMs suck.


Fire And Forget
No shared targetting without special equipment.

That is what missiles need. You get your own locks and you waste less ammo when you run solo, but if you run in a lance with support carrying NARC and C3, missiles are extra powerful.

LRMs suck so you suggest to make them more difficult to use effectively? I will never understand this line of thinking.

[wanderer]

Mellifluer, on 19 January 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

4 PGI should punish players that use LRMS by upping the chance of ammo explosion so that just breaking 90% heat runs the risk of an ammo explosion.

Depressingly enough, at one point this was actually true in MWO.

[Galenit]

wanderer, on 19 January 2016 - 07:39 AM, said:

Depressingly enough, at one point this was actually true in MWO.

This should count for all ammo in a real dynamic heatscale together with movement and mobility penaltys, minimap errors and hud flickering and it would also solve the ghostheatbandaid and keep the laservomit under control.

But pgi knows better ...

Edited by Galenit, 19 January 2016 - 07:54 AM.

[mogs01gt]

sensen, on 18 January 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

1. Missiles need more weight (a lot more)
2. Missiles launching should cause a lot more heat.
3. Missile Launchers should take more slots.

I believe this is fair considering the new map is nothing but a snowy "no man's land" (learn your history if you don't know what that is). Also it will stop people from heavily relying on LRM boats...honestly I wish they didn't add LRMs because there are only 12 v 12 maps. If it was 50 v 50 then I can understand the need for artillery.

relying on LRMS?? WTF is that suppose to mean?

So what you are saying is you what mechs in Mech Warrior to be the exact same style, point and click..This isnt an FPS.

Also, no-one uses LRMs in higher level play.

[pbiggz]

WarHippy, on 19 January 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

LRMs suck so you suggest to make them more difficult to use effectively? I will never understand this line of thinking.

You dolt. Fire and forget is a massive buff. Fire and forget means that when you lose the lock, LRMs in midflight still hit the target.

Right now, to actually hit the target, you need to expose yourself, get a lock, keep the lock, hope the guy you're locked onto doesn't get undercover or move out of targetting range, and only then, do you actually land your hits. If you lose lock at any time the volleys you fired that haven't hit yet are wasted ammo.

When I say fire and forget, I mean that if you run LRMs without support, they act as a support weapon for other builds. Fire and forget means that missiles are efficient enough to run one or two of them to compliment other builds, like LRMs should.

BUT, if you mount C3, spend that tonnage to link in with your lance, LRMs turn from a support weapon to a truly terrifying long ranged indirect fire weapon.

Everything I just suggested is a buff. Im not saying remove indirect fire, im saying make it cost something, so that the base weapon can be made more powerful and versatile.

[SilentWolff]

sensen, on 18 January 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

1. Missiles need more weight (a lot more)
2. Missiles launching should cause a lot more heat.
3. Missile Launchers should take more slots.

I believe this is fair considering the new map is nothing but a snowy "no man's land" (learn your history if you don't know what that is). Also it will stop people from heavily relying on LRM boats...honestly I wish they didn't add LRMs because there are only 12 v 12 maps. If it was 50 v 50 then I can understand the need for artillery.

Your whoppin 5 posts and lack of tier rating lend credence to your argument.

[wanderer]

pbiggz, on 19 January 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

You dolt. Fire and forget is a massive buff. Fire and forget means that when you lose the lock, LRMs in midflight still hit the target.

Right now, to actually hit the target, you need to expose yourself, get a lock, keep the lock, hope the guy you're locked onto doesn't get undercover or move out of targetting range, and only then, do you actually land your hits. If you lose lock at any time the volleys you fired that haven't hit yet are wasted ammo.

When I say fire and forget, I mean that if you run LRMs without support, they act as a support weapon for other builds. Fire and forget means that missiles are efficient enough to run one or two of them to compliment other builds, like LRMs should.

BUT, if you mount C3, spend that tonnage to link in with your lance, LRMs turn from a support weapon to a truly terrifying long ranged indirect fire weapon.

Everything I just suggested is a buff. Im not saying remove indirect fire, im saying make it cost something, so that the base weapon can be made more powerful and versatile.

So basically, what you're saying is that people will spend an extra eight tons to help LRMs (that's a C3 Master + 3 links for a network) in random solo queue/PUG play. You did know that's how C3 networking works, right?

When they won't spend 4 tons on a NARC.

Grats, you've just rendered LRMs even more a niche weapon than before. I'd honestly rather have the current missiles than be left with a long-range Streak system and carrying at least another ton of wasted space for the C3 I'd have to pray for each match to magically show up.

[pbiggz]

wanderer, on 19 January 2016 - 08:52 AM, said:

So basically, what you're saying is that people will spend an extra eight tons to help LRMs (that's a C3 Master + 3 links for a network) in random solo queue/PUG play. You did know that's how C3 networking works, right?

When they won't spend 4 tons on a NARC.

Grats, you've just rendered LRMs even more a niche weapon than before. I'd honestly rather have the current missiles than be left with a long-range Streak system and carrying at least another ton of wasted space for the C3 I'd have to pray for each match to magically show up.

There has been no mechwarrior game where we got FREE shared targeting info. That kind of system costs tonnage whether you like it or not.

Im not opposed to a narc buff either.

I also wouldn't be opposed to getting rid of c3 master and making the system decentralized.

Also, fire and forget wouldnt make LRMs even more niche they would make them more common. I don't know what is so hard for you to understand about that.

The only place you see LRMs right now is on specialized boats, they never appear on any other build and they never appear in high level play. They're as niche as they could ever bloody be.

Edited by pbiggz, 19 January 2016 - 10:40 AM.

[Mamonar]

sensen, on 18 January 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

1. Missiles need more weight (a lot more)
2. Missiles launching should cause a lot more heat.
3. Missile Launchers should take more slots.

I believe this is fair considering the new map is nothing but a snowy "no man's land" (learn your history if you don't know what that is). Also it will stop people from heavily relying on LRM boats...honestly I wish they didn't add LRMs because there are only 12 v 12 maps. If it was 50 v 50 then I can understand the need for artillery.

I bet you don't even install AMS in your mechs.
I strongly advise that you eat poop and perish sensen, you greenhorn!

Edited by Mamonar, 19 January 2016 - 02:32 PM.

[StonedVet]

This thread makes me ROFL!!
LRM complaints when it takes a ton of missles to cause remarkable damage.

LRMs are fine, I suggest not inviting them by playing according to what a map dictates. If you get scouted by lights who are coordinating strikes for a team, guess what, you got outplayed by a superior team.

This isn't worth complaining about

[Trauglodyte]

Khobai, that is really what you took from what I wrote?

Quote

how lrms will outrange lasers? theyre supposed to be long range missiles. they should outrange lasers like they do in tabletop.

What I was stating was, since you didn't get it, that people that complain about LRMs do nothing to make the system any better. LRMs are garbage and everyone knows it. The return on investment for using them is so incredibly low that you're almost better off allocating the tonnage to a different weapon type. When people complain about them, it makes PGI less inclined to make them better which, in turn, just enforces the 2+ years of primary laser vomit.

How did you not get that?

[Thunder Child]

pbiggz, on 19 January 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

There has been no mechwarrior game where we got FREE shared targeting info. That kind of system costs tonnage whether you like it or not.

Im not opposed to a narc buff either.

I also wouldn't be opposed to getting rid of c3 master and making the system decentralized.

Also, fire and forget wouldnt make LRMs even more niche they would make them more common. I don't know what is so hard for you to understand about that.

The only place you see LRMs right now is on specialized boats, they never appear on any other build and they never appear in high level play. They're as niche as they could ever bloody be.

I've actually liked the C3 concept for IS chassis. Though traditional C3 would have absolutely no effect on LRMs in this game (as it never affected LRMs in TT), or any effect on the game at all, as it is to do with To-Hit numbers.

A proposed Idea was to make the C3 into an IS version of the Clan TC. For each mech in the C3 Network, you get raised one TC level. So a single C3 Slave would be equal to a CTC I. A pair of Slaves linked up would each be CTC II. Three Slaves would each become CTC III, all the way up to a max of CTC IV for four Slaves.
However, if one of those Slaves was a C3 Master, the Slaves would all get a bonus two levels. So a Master and three Slaves would be CTC VII for the Master, and CTC VI for the Slaves. The Master by itself would be CTC III or IV. And Masters would not be able to link up. Maybe have a Max Link range of, say, 300m.

Just an idea that was going around earlier.

Also, obligatory "NERF LRMS!". Remove the Lock on, tighten the spread by 200%, and increase flight speed by 400%. Also increase the Cooldown by 200%. It's a Nerf because they no longer lock on, and can't spread damage all in endless flights.

[wanderer]

Quote

There has been no mechwarrior game where we got FREE shared targeting info. That kind of system costs tonnage whether you like it or not.

There has been no other MechWarrior game that wasn't coded to be a single player campaign with a multiplayer option vs. a multiplayer game like MWO. And again. One man. Walkie-talkie. All it takes to call down indirect fire since WW1.

Quote

Im not opposed to a narc buff either.

That's a nice start.

Quote

I also wouldn't be opposed to getting rid of c3 master and making the system decentralized.

That's called C3i, a Comstar invention- but again, it takes other people sacrificing tons of stuff for what -might- be on someone else's PUGmobile.

Quote

Also, fire and forget wouldnt make LRMs even more niche they would make them more common. I don't know what is so hard for you to understand about that.

It doesn't change the actual issues for LRMs- it's not a direct-fire, all damage on the crosshair weapon. Without IDF, it has to point it's face at the enemy and eat fire, and a direct-fire pathing will be even more easily defeated by terrain than the current arc.

Your idea makes LRMs into a slow Streak launcher with more range but plentiful amounts of lithobraking getting in the way.

(And incidentally, Streak LRMs actually do exist later down the timeline and can't IDF- see http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Streak_LRM-5 )

But hey, let's make LRMs even more dependent on team-mates to carry critical equipment to allow them to hit targets. Surely, that'll make them more popular.

Quote

The only place you see LRMs right now is on specialized boats, they never appear on any other build and they never appear in high level play. They're as niche as they could ever bloody be.

You don't see LB-X's for much the same reasons. Scatter damage automatically disqualifies a weapon from the meta tiers, and the only compensation scatter damage weapons can make is mass boating- the same reason the Streakcrow has it's place.

[CF Alpha Scout]

sensen, on 18 January 2016 - 05:22 PM, said:

1. Missiles need more weight (a lot more)
2. Missiles launching should cause a lot more heat.
3. Missile Launchers should take more slots.

I believe this is fair considering the new map is nothing but a snowy "no man's land" (learn your history if you don't know what that is). Also it will stop people from heavily relying on LRM boats...honestly I wish they didn't add LRMs because there are only 12 v 12 maps. If it was 50 v 50 then I can understand the need for artillery.

*sigh* It's people like you who don't know they're ruining the game.

[Dino Might]

MechB Kotare, on 18 January 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

Go back to playing Call of Duty you FPS arcade noobie,

It's fine to disagree and state why, but the ad hominem wasn't really necessary.
Now I think I need to go eat some non-GMO free-range organic yogurt to cleanse the toxins from your post that I found full of microaggressions.

Mamonar, on 19 January 2016 - 02:31 PM, said:

I bet you don't even install AMS in your mechs.
I strongly advise that you eat poop and perish sensen, you greenhorn!

Are you kidding me? You, too? You guys need to take a valium or something.

[RoboPatton]

How new players see LRMS--



How many veterans see LRMS--



Or...

Edited by RoboPatton, 19 January 2016 - 04:15 PM.

[MechB Kotare]

Dino Might, on 19 January 2016 - 03:58 PM, said:

It's fine to disagree and state why, but the ad hominem wasn't really necessary.

I agree, and i wouldnt react the way i did otherwise, if i didnt see this guys (whos apparently a new player to whole MW franchise) bashing already underperforming weapon systems, just because they might be annoying sometimes, and prevent you from shooting.

It is mostly thanks to guys like he is. Majority of players crying about something they dont like, and PGI only obeys.

I really hate it when newcomers log on forums, once per their whole life, just to enlighten everyone how, according to them, something craves for a drastic change, because they dont like the way the thing they complain about negatively impacts their personal experience, and vision about how this game should be played, without any knowledge of what previous MW series were about.

[pbiggz]

wanderer, on 19 January 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

There has been no other MechWarrior game that wasn't coded to be a single player campaign with a multiplayer option vs. a multiplayer game like MWO. And again. One man. Walkie-talkie. All it takes to call down indirect fire since WW1.



That's a nice start.



That's called C3i, a Comstar invention- but again, it takes other people sacrificing tons of stuff for what -might- be on someone else's PUGmobile.



It doesn't change the actual issues for LRMs- it's not a direct-fire, all damage on the crosshair weapon. Without IDF, it has to point it's face at the enemy and eat fire, and a direct-fire pathing will be even more easily defeated by terrain than the current arc.

Your idea makes LRMs into a slow Streak launcher with more range but plentiful amounts of lithobraking getting in the way.

(And incidentally, Streak LRMs actually do exist later down the timeline and can't IDF- see http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Streak_LRM-5 )

But hey, let's make LRMs even more dependent on team-mates to carry critical equipment to allow them to hit targets. Surely, that'll make them more popular.



You don't see LB-X's for much the same reasons. Scatter damage automatically disqualifies a weapon from the meta tiers, and the only compensation scatter damage weapons can make is mass boating- the same reason the Streakcrow has it's place.

No it doesn't. Just because they are fire and forget doesn't mean they have to fire straight at the enemy. But im telling you now that forcing them to be indirect is what makes them useless and there's no way to fix it without tying in more equipment. My suggestion makes them a viable support weapon which would be wide spread AND keeps indirect fire opportunities for people who want them. If you want indirect fire you run in a lance with a spotter, if you're soloing bring your fire and forget build. You poke, get the lock, fire, get under cover, the missiles still hit without you wasting ammo because you lost your lock.

You're so attached to the indirect fire you can't see how its killing the weapon.

[SuicSpyder]

Mellifluer, on 19 January 2016 - 01:47 AM, said:

nerf lrms they are obviously OP. less damage, more heat, less ammo, lower ghost heat limit (only 1 launcher period) and give launchers the chance to explode like gauss, after all they are loaded with highly volatile missiles.

1 they can hit me when i cant shoot back this is obviously wrong in an FPS and using lrms is like using a GL or bazooka. quite literally it is a "noob tube"

2 the launchers weigh far to little and have far to much ammo per ton as i often see LRM gigasours with 60+ tubes. i should not have to deal with such a large amount of indirect fire, even if roughly 30% of the missiles miss outright on a hit.

3 i should not have to be bothered to carry extra equipment (ECM, radar dep, AMS) just on account of these noob tubes.people that i regard as scrubs shouldn't ever be allowed to scratch my paint. and if i am forced to then ECM should actually provide COMPLETE immunity from LRMS period.

4 PGI should punish players that use LRMS by upping the chance of ammo explosion so that just breaking 90% heat runs the risk of an ammo explosion.

5 these ammo explosions should further punish the LRM noobs team by causing area damage around said LRM mech, to teach them to give any LRM mech a wide berth and to not protect them or even help them when they are under attack.

6 enemy lights should be immune to this area effect explosion as they should be encouraged to hunt down LRM boats and punish them for bringing such useless scrub weapons.

7 launchers should explode like gauss explodes and with more internal damage

8 LRMS should have their ROF reduced so that people can never chain them even if they did use 6+ LRM 5's

9 LRMS should deal reduced damage and only apply full damage once armor is gone. again ECM should still provide complete immunity from LRMS

10 2 AMS should be enough to kill hundreds of LRMS that way i by myself can shoot them all down

11 Radar dep should cause LRM boats to lose lock instantly as long as im not in THEIR line of site

12 LRMs shouldn't be able to target mechs that the LRM boat cannot see with direct LOS, regardless of tag or narc

13 tag should only decrease LRM lock on time and spread by 5% as they are already OP

14 NARC should only share target information but shouldn't allow mechs to lock missiles on without direct LOS and it shouldn't counter ECM either.

15 BAP should only allow increased sensor range and rag doll time, should not counter ECM or allow LRM mechs to target shut down mechs

i mean why should I suffer just because some cowardly scrubs want to hide behind cover and milk damage off my targets. why should i have to deal with screen shake and explosions from someone that sits behind HIS WHOLE TEAM at the spawn and then proceeds to vomit endless streams of missiles

why should i suffer at all? i cant shoot back and that's unacceptable in a modern FPS. direct LOS weapons should always be the best weapons because this game is an FPS.

Hahaha, poe's law indeed.

I have a slightly different suggestion.

1/ Counterbattery radar module that calculates the origin of incoming fire and gives minimap blip. General location is close enough, updated everytime missile are launched.

2/ Give me that super-jihadi self destruct module I've been wishing for.

Joking aside, it's not the screen shake that annoys me, it's the damn SOUND! Occasionally it bothers me enough that I hunt down the offending missile boat regardless of what lies between our positions, hahaha.

I try to remember that a lot of people feel like that when I'm behind them pinging machinegun rounds off their fat asses, and always being there doing it the very second they think I've finally left.