35 replies to this topic

[Suko]

Well, I spoke with Randall at PAX 2 years ago, and aside from a prototype Warhammer figure in a case, there was no visual clues of the unseen mechs yet. In my conversation with him he said that they're planning to just go for it as he felt their design was significantly different enough from the Macross art to avoid trouble. However, he told me that it had not been "confirmed" that was what they were going to be doing for certain.

Fast-forward to this year and the first images we saw of the classic mechs was in conjunction with the Kickstarter for the new Battletech game by HBS. By all means, if you have a news announcements pre-dating the HBS concept art, I'd love to know/see it.

Also, seeing how HBS is working in conjunction with Catalyst on the Battletech PC game, I really think this is just a neckbeard argument over semantics.

Edited by Suko, 19 January 2016 - 05:16 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Suko, on 19 January 2016 - 05:14 PM, said:

Well, I spoke with Randall at PAX 2 years ago, and aside from a prototype Warhammer figure in a case, there was no visual clues of the unseen mechs yet. In my conversation with him he said that they're planning to just go for it as he felt their design was significantly different enough from the Macross art to avoid trouble. However, he told me that it had not been "confirmed" that was what they were going to be doing for certain.

Fast-forward to this year and the first images we saw of the classic mechs was in conjunction with the Kickstarter for the new Battletech game by HBS. By all means, if you have a news announcements pre-dating the HBS concept art, I'd love to know/see it.

Legal Settlements like this are sealed for a reason. None of the parties are free to discuss it. The simple fact that all parties actively sidestep it, when asked, in fact confirms that there is indeed a settlement in place.

[TheCobra]

Escef, on 19 January 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

I wouldn't wager on that. They are still predominantly a real estate company that deals in one of the most expensive areas in the country. They've been doing quite fine for themselves, but every time in the past they threw their weight around it was a smallish to mid sized fish jumping into the tiny pond of table top game developers. Suddenly they have truly large fish to deal with, like Topps, Hasbro, and possibly even Microsoft. Pretty hard to intimidate multinationals with net income greater than many small countries' GDP.

Oh, I did not know that. I thought they dealt only in trademarks. Thanks for the info!

[KHETTI]

Personally i'd like to see Harmony Gold go under, they ruined a lot of companies, "just cos we could".

[Agent 0 Fortune]

There is no case, the unseen are largely unrecognizable as the originals, the only possible exception being the Griffin (and hopefully the archer).

[Bishop Steiner]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 19 January 2016 - 06:18 PM, said:

There is no case, the unseen are largely unrecognizable as the originals, the only possible exception being the Griffin (and hopefully the archer).

HG never had rights to the Griffin, or any of the Dougram or Crusher Joe designs, anyhow. Only ones at possible risk are the Macross based ones.

This also is likely why we have not seen anything based off the Valkyrie/Veritech Fighter yet (Wasp, Stinger, Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk, Crusader), as those likely will be rather difficult to find that happy medium with.

[ColdPsyker1]

Cathy, on 19 January 2016 - 04:53 PM, said:

Oh Games workshop lost, good for the Indie studio, they've been screwing over people for years, nice to see them get kicked in the balls, for a change

What did they lose over ?

To my knowledge it was against Chapterhouse; one of those companies that produces minitures that "totally can be used in any sort of Sci-fi Gothic tabletop game BUT ISNT 40k *wink wink*"

[Nasp]

And......It has begun
https://www.unitedst...242820/1-0.html

[Kalimaster]

Harmony Gold also tried to sue Hasbro, It was "dismissed with prejudice". Perhaps PGI can use part of that case as a defense, as the ruling is as they say a precedent. Also unlike many of the Macross designs, our mechs don't transform from one vehicle into another, as they do in the Macross saga.

[Metus regem]

Kalimaster, on 24 July 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

Harmony Gold also tried to sue Hasbro, It was "dismissed with prejudice". Perhaps PGI can use part of that case as a defense, as the ruling is as they say a precedent. Also unlike many of the Macross designs, our mechs don't transform from one vehicle into another, as they do in the Macross saga.

To be fair, the Warhammer (Excalibur / Tomahawk), Marauder (Officer's Battle pod), Archer (Spartan / Gladiator), Riflemen (Defender / Raider X) didn't transform in Macross either.... I put the Robotech / Macross names in brackets just to make it easier, for those that'd don't know the names of the units there.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

ColdPsyker1, on 19 January 2016 - 08:29 PM, said:

To my knowledge it was against Chapterhouse; one of those companies that produces minitures that "totally can be used in any sort of Sci-fi Gothic tabletop game BUT ISNT 40k *wink wink*"

Chapterhouse won because GW cant claim copyright over common items like, skull on shoulder pad or clenched fist on shoulder pad. Crap like that. They pushed too hard on Chapterhouse and lost. Plus, I remember reading something about certain artists retaining rights to certain images, so GW didn't really have a leg to stand on. They tried to put them under with court costs and failed.

Someone else filled a gap in the industry that GW had a LONG time to fill, but didn't feel it worth while. I'm glad to see CH thrive.

Edited by Mechwarrior1441491, 24 July 2017 - 05:08 PM.

[SmokedJag]

Kalimaster, on 24 July 2017 - 02:23 PM, said:

Harmony Gold also tried to sue Hasbro, It was "dismissed with prejudice". Perhaps PGI can use part of that case as a defense, as the ruling is as they say a precedent. Also unlike many of the Macross designs, our mechs don't transform from one vehicle into another, as they do in the Macross saga.

Trial motion ruling aren't precedential.

Regardless, this is pretty frivilous trolling under US copyright law. Unless PGI was using the old disputed FASA art as a guide, similarities are irrelevant. The idea of a giant 'Mech named a Warhammer or Marauder is only protectable at trademark, not copyright and Harmony Gold is engaged in no active trade. Plus as I understand it, Harmony Gold's claim to copyright ownership is itself pretty poor under US law.

[Fleeb the Mad]

I'm honestly a little baffled at why a company like Harmony Gold would be so litigious when their only apparent objective is to deny the IP to people. They've been doing nothing but spiting the fans for ages.

But yes, generally they've gotten their way because the small companies like FASA couldn't afford to fight them, whether or not there was any actual merit to the case. The original re-seen were wholesale new art and miniatures, so it's no particular wonder that went on without incident. They were specifically designed to be different so the designs could reappear without the threat of litigation.

The big change has actually been the more recent developments with PGI's own projects. The newer art doesn't purposefully keep a ten foot pole between it and the old robotech material. To be honest it's better art and I'd wager it's full steam ahead now because Battletech is owned by companies that have the teeth to defend it.

[SmokedJag]

Fleeb the Mad, on 24 July 2017 - 06:44 PM, said:

I'm honestly a little baffled at why a company like Harmony Gold would be so litigious when their only apparent objective is to deny the IP to people. They've been doing nothing but spiting the fans for ages.

They're a copyright troll. It's the same thing as patent trolls, just much less effective. Attempt to obtain settlement money here and there for what's fundamentally inactive IP that's not costing you anything. It's been noted that Harmony Gold never tried to sue Microsoft because big companies have litigation budgets exceeding copyright-type damages and so will not only not settle garbage claims but try to beat them up.

Patent is a whole other story since that's strict liability even on coincidence and gets really expensive.

Edited by SmokedJag, 25 July 2017 - 03:13 AM.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

what's actually funny, is that there is artwork regarding this that Harmony Gold is attempting to go after, and none of it fits, they're trying to say stuff like the Atlas, infringes on the Archer... it's, weird.

[Frost Lord]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 25 July 2017 - 03:27 AM, said:

what's actually funny, is that there is artwork regarding this that Harmony Gold is attempting to go after, and none of it fits, they're trying to say stuff like the Atlas, infringes on the Archer... it's, weird.

the armored Valkyrie according to the video i watched definitely a WTF moment if its true.