25 replies to this topic

[adamts01]

Ok. So many people cry about LRM boats sitting in the back doing nothing. How about if we make LRMs way more accurate and 3 times as powerful, double the cooldown, and only give out 40/ton. The overall damge/ton would go down, and each shot would be much more valuable. What this would do would force LRM boats to work with the team/spotter or be forced to get their own locks, as raining down constantly from the back wouldn't be feasible. Ams would likely have to be toned down a bit. This would also make taking a LRM5 or 10 worth it. Some stock light builds with LRMs would actually make sense. Right now you have to boat them to be effective, and that's lame.

[STEF_]

lol

[El Bandito]

The missile speed will have to be drastically increased and locking mechanism should be changed to fire-and-forget to make LRMs as competitive as ACs, or lasers. Otherwise I am fine with your suggestion.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 January 2016 - 06:53 AM.

[H I A S]

The whole mechanic needs an overhaul.

Edited by arivio, 21 January 2016 - 06:57 AM.

[mogs01gt]

El Bandito, on 21 January 2016 - 06:49 AM, said:

The missile speed will have to be drastically increased and locking mechanism should be changed to fire-and-forget to make LRMs mas competitive as ACs, or lasers. Otherwise I am fine with your suggestion.

This! Missiles are too slow and the locking mechanism takes too long.

1 LRM hardpoint should be just as effective as 1 ballistics hardpoint for a properly balanced game. Example LRM10 should equal AC10 but in spread damage obviously.

Edited by mogs01gt, 21 January 2016 - 06:53 AM.

[Dashia]

The concept of a lrm boat sitting behind cover is fine. that is the role their job. Yes you can make a balance to force pilots to run around and grab their own locks but thats no what being an lrm support is. Just as the role of a light is to go scout. Lrm boats need to be there to unleash hell once the scout has done his job. too often do ppl complain about lrm's. Im getting sick they work fine. The way they are set up is either you work as a team to provide locks for lrm support. or you dont the the boats are SOL and the support is gone. Every balance or change i have heard to lrms just defeats the purpose of them by trying to make them more of a direct fire game style or by limiting the missile output. so long story short work as a team and use some dam cover.

[Monkey Lover]

I support a los buff and a non-los nerf. Let's make lrms worth taking if you're getting your own locks.

[El Bandito]

Dashia, on 21 January 2016 - 06:53 AM, said:

The concept of a lrm boat sitting behind cover is fine. that is the role their job. Yes you can make a balance to force pilots to run around and grab their own locks but thats no what being an lrm support is. Just as the role of a light is to go scout. Lrm boats need to be there to unleash hell once the scout has done his job. too often do ppl complain about lrm's. Im getting sick they work fine. The way they are set up is either you work as a team to provide locks for lrm support. or you dont the the boats are SOL and the support is gone. Every balance or change i have heard to lrms just defeats the purpose of them by trying to make them more of a direct fire game style or by limiting the missile output. so long story short work as a team and use some dam cover.

While the teamwork part of your post do make sense, I feel that LRMs shouldn't stay bad unless boated. A change is necessary--especially the fire-and-forget part. A single LRM15 should ideally be able to fire without needlessly interfering with other weapons, due to current locking mechanism.

Edited by El Bandito, 21 January 2016 - 06:57 AM.

[mogs01gt]

Dashia, on 21 January 2016 - 06:53 AM, said:

The concept of a lrm boat sitting behind cover is fine. that is the role their job. Yes you can make a balance to force pilots to run around and grab their own locks but thats no what being an lrm support is. Just as the role of a light is to go scout. Lrm boats need to be there to unleash hell once the scout has done his job. too often do ppl complain about lrm's. Im getting sick they work fine. The way they are set up is either you work as a team to provide locks for lrm support. or you dont the the boats are SOL and the support is gone. Every balance or change i have heard to lrms just defeats the purpose of them by trying to make them more of a direct fire game style or by limiting the missile output. so long story short work as a team and use some dam cover.

The issue in MWO is that brawling isnt as effective any more due to the efficiency of lasers. People ***** and moan because their easy to use laser meta can be completely countered by LRMs once the lock holds on the target. If boating wasnt the most efficient use of hardpoints, people would ***** less.

[Averen]

arivio, on 21 January 2016 - 06:50 AM, said:

The whole mechanic neues an overhaul.

True. LRM are the only widely used weapon system in MWO which could be removed with little to no effect to the combat dynamics.

Which, as I think, is a testament as what kind of terrible system LRM are. While they are an important part of battletech, this games iteration currently is an obnoxious appendage that'll never be anything but an annoyance for anyone having to deal with them, and a broken balance that sways from useless to overpowered depending on the situation.
It doesn't fit the gameplay in any way, shape or form.

[mogs01gt]

Averen, on 21 January 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

True. LRM are the only widely used weapon system in MWO which could be removed with little to no effect to the combat dynamics.

If LRMs are removed, lasers will become even more dominate. Ballistics are simply too heavy and doesnt have enough range to compete with Lasers.

[Aiden Skye]

Spotting for LRM's in the Raven 3L has been some of the most fun I've had in MWO. Sadly you rarely see lights playing these roles anymore. It's all about boating pulse lasers. It makes it a very risky job taking a mech out like a Spotter 3L. Only weapons you have are 2 medium lasers to defend yourself against packs of Meta lights.

Not to mention, it will be painful to drop into a match, narc / tag only to have no LRM's on your team.I agree though, LRM's should be more deadly and difficult to use. Spotters / scouts should have more of a role in this.

[Revorn]

Averen, on 21 January 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

currently is an obnoxious appendage that'll never be anything but an annoyance for anyone having to deal with them,

well maybe not to anyone, sometimes the are just like....

[GreyNovember]

40 Ammo/ton mega LRMs you say?

My lights are terrified that they can't actually dodge them anymore around cover.

[sycocys]

How do you figure the damage is going to go down if an LRM20 = 60 points of accurate damage? Even with 4x the CD someone boating 3-4 of those is going to 1-2 alpha almost any mech in the game.

[adamts01]

Dashia, on 21 January 2016 - 06:53 AM, said:

The concept of a lrm boat sitting behind cover is fine. that is the role their job.

I agree. I want LRMs to be able to sit back in a corner and make something die. We need more variety in tactics in this game, not less. They can still do that, they just have to really trust their spotter, because they don't have the numbers to spam. But when the get solid hits.... It really hurts.

sycocys, on 21 January 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

How do you figure the damage is going to go down if an LRM20 = 60 points of accurate damage? Even with 4x the CD someone boating 3-4 of those is going to 1-2 alpha almost any mech in the game.

I don't know. Maybe it would be the same, that wouldn't be the end of the world. Right now, LRMs are so feast or famine. I'd rather have them more potent, but to do that they'd have to lower ammo per ton.

[JC Daxion]

Monkey Lover, on 21 January 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

I support a los buff and a non-los nerf. Let's make lrms worth taking if you're getting your own locks.

this is what i've been saying..

Perhaps, an LOS lock aquire buff.. Make it happen lots faster. I feel like it takes so long, even with BAP+artemis, and sometimes a tag tossed in, it feels like I'm staring at the person for ever. Unless they are looking in another direction, there is no way to grab a lock yourself with out taking one to two hits at least..

To me, you should be able to pop out of cover, and see a mech, target it, and lock and fire. Or be able to fire at the mech unlocked, and grab the lock on the way. (firing missiles then obtaining a lock on the way there could be a really cool aspect.) I dunno exactly, but an LOS buff is certainly in order. Would also give people a reason to not just sit back and boat LRM's I've been playing a madcat with some LRM's, SRM's and lasers.. IT really is fun, and plays like i thought a mad cat should.. Still brawls well with nice DPS too!
Defiantly a different beast than the UAC20 or Large pulse versions i have played.

If you are Not line of sight.. the missiles could really spread out, or perhaps the speed increase buffs would not work? I dunno how i would change non-line of sight.

Edited by JC Daxion, 21 January 2016 - 09:15 AM.

[Kangarad]

First off: yes Lrms are currently a big hit or miss, I personally reach from 300 damage to 1,2k of damage per match using 2160 lrm shots depending on locks/terrain/distances/nascar.

I am using this build:STK-5M
with + range and + cooldown+ lockon modules.

Often I am getting nascard to death / abandoned by my team and mobbed by lights / etc.
you know how pugs are...

But thats besides the point. the point is that I at my best only hit with 60% of all missiles regardless of artemis and narc and friendly tags even on open maps like arctic.

Currently theres way to many things that effectively make my missiles useless.
AMS? can understand that the anti Missile system takes down some of em (or when multiple are used all of em.)
ECM ? of your flaring all kinds of electronic signals breaking my lock those missiles surely will miss too.
Terrain, yea that building must be a sanddune by now with all the tons of missiles it has eaten but whatever.
Lockbreaking, yes the missiles will flail away too without a target.

so how about we reduce those abit? what if missiles had their own lock, I am sure they see more form that high point I just fired them up to. or... :

Different fire modes:
Heatseeking once fired will target nearest source of heat in 90° cone of firied range (including firendly) since heat can not be faked by ecm this could be used to target those people but carries the risk of hitting your teammates.

Deep Strike, missiles raise 100m in the air before flying above the enemy to fall down the other 100m, this reduces the chance to hit terrain, while also reducing the flight range by 200m(can also be used to hit closer targets delayed due to including teh 200m arming time into the lift/downward flight)

Straight fire, missiles will fly directly towards the enemy covering more ground at the expense of nolonger passing over terrain decreasing the flighttime and increasing the max flight distance.

Area Strike, missiles will fan out making them harder targets for ams but has the negative effect of hitting a larger area and spreading out the damage.

Guided Flight, Missiles will fly to where ever you are pointing, allowing you to change their flight direction for nolock shooting (requires LOS naturaly)

Dumbfire point somewhere, missiles arc towards that point like it is now without lockon.
LinkedFire lockon to someone , missiles arc towards that target like it is now.

[Mannson]

I dunno, I have found LRMs VERY powerful weapon when I've adherred to the LURMING guide found in this very website.

Besides, the shake and debris they bring to enemy's vision makes them greeeat auxiliary weapons when engaging at 200-500 m range.

Only seen few good dedicated LURMers that absolutely wrecked people, they did this by popping out to get locks from places where enemy didn't expect them or alternatively, be near their group in case of NASCAR.

Do kinda wanna those Arrow missiles for more damage, less ammo per ton >.>

[wanderer]

Honestly, the thing that killed LRMs is PGI turning off convergence.

When you can pop out behind a hill and burn 30+ damage off a single pixel location at 800m using iron sights, why bother with anything that doesn't focus and hence maximize damage?

Perfect convergence should be linked to sensor acquisition. Barring that, it should be a default point (say, 3000m) away from the 'Mech, meaning you'd still be aiming but your hit pattern wouldn't be a single spot, but a predictable shot grouping around that point instead.

Quote

Only seen few good dedicated LURMers that absolutely wrecked people, they did this by popping out to get locks from places where enemy didn't expect them or alternatively, be near their group in case of NASCAR.

Heck, when it's NASCAR mode I like to try and get off to the side a bit so I have better firing angles, too. Anything past 500m is generally a "scare shot" for me- I don't expect hits, but it'll temporarily keep someone from firing while they shift/cover up.

Quote

Do kinda wanna those Arrow missiles for more damage, less ammo per ton

Arrow IV missiles are actually a 'Mech-sized artillery launcher, rather than LRMs. And yeah, me too. There's a Catapult variant from 3050 that's unbuildable without them.