23 replies to this topic

[MadFrenchie]

This was, quite honestly, the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

Just got one-shotted in the back of my Firestarter with no rear armor damage prior to the killing blow. My left and right torso was 8 rear armor, my center was 10. I'll be honest; that seems cheap as hell.

I understand lights play a specific role, and if I had vacated rear armor altogether I could see this... But leaving at least 8 armor, this should not happen. Critical damage? Sure. One-shot? Nah. That's just awful game mechanics imo.

I've been playing recently to get a feel for a review article I have been working on for another site. This experience doesn't contribute to a positive review, quite honestly.

Anyone care to attempt to defend such an atrocious situation?

[BeaverOnFire]

Just to be clear: You are complaining that you got one-shotted in the back in your undamaged firestarter? First of all: Who shot you and with which mech with which weapons? If it was a locust with one medium laser, ok, i would get your saltiness. But to be honest, getting one-shot in an XL-light happens. You don´t use your Armor as a defensive mechanism, you should use your mobility instead.

Learn how to drive a light, move and don´t expose your back to the enemy. It is as simple as that.

PS: If it bothers you so much getting one shotted in the back, stop copying builds from the internet (gman loves his 8t armor in the rear, i know) and put more armor in the back ffs.

Edited by BeaverOnFire, 23 January 2016 - 12:26 AM.

[Fox With A Shotgun]

MadFrenchie, on 23 January 2016 - 12:05 AM, said:

This was, quite honestly, the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

Just got one-shotted in the back of my Firestarter with no rear armor damage prior to the killing blow. My left and right torso was 8 rear armor, my center was 10. I'll be honest; that seems cheap as hell.

I understand lights play a specific role, and if I had vacated rear armor altogether I could see this... But leaving at least 8 armor, this should not happen. Critical damage? Sure. One-shot? Nah. That's just awful game mechanics imo.

I've been playing recently to get a feel for a review article I have been working on for another site. This experience doesn't contribute to a positive review, quite honestly.

Anyone care to attempt to defend such an atrocious situation?

Happens all the time in a light, and every single time it's my fault for stopping or running into a place where I have to stop.

Your armor is mobility. That armor is only there to stop sweeps and scrapes, not for absorbing full hits. If you, as a light, eat a full wave of SRMs to the back, that's your own problem for engaging a SRM boat or a SSRM boat. If you eat a double AC20 to the back, that's either bad luck to you or they're amazingly skilled and/or lucky. Same goes for multi-PPC.

And in a firestarter? Let me cry a river for you, because firestarters are durable. You should be sticked down first before even losing either ST or CT. Pilot a LCT-1E and you will know the meaning of fragile.

As for advice; lights have stupid amounts of torso twist. You can literally expose only your front no matter which way you're travelling, because you have a huge range of torso movement. If you got surrounded, then getting nailed in the back is your own problem.

Edited by Fox With A Shotgun, 23 January 2016 - 12:29 AM.

[_____]

8 pts rear armor + 22 pts structure = 30 point alpha. That's within very reasonable limits. This is why most experienced pilots don't even bother to put that much rear armor, it doesn't really help when you're piloting it wrong.

[no one]

BeaverOnFire, on 23 January 2016 - 12:21 AM, said:

You don´t use your Armor as a defensive mechanism, you should use your mobility instead.

This is true to something of a depressing degree. A completely unarmored fast light can and will outlive a slow but fully armored 'Mech of any weight in a brawl if the pilot knows how to lose shots in cover and stay mobile. (unless someone actually manages to shoot you, in which case all bets are off) Part of it is what you experienced, which is that weapons focus damage far more than they should. It's something of a sore spot with people. There's a 'Mech skill left over from open beta for 'convergence speed' that's been eating xp and doing nothing for years. People have suggested a lot of good potential fixes like extreme range convergence / parallel weapons fire, but PGI tends to answer with some variation of 'nah too hard' with sprinklings of 'oh that'd frustrate people' and large helpings of protracted silence. Oh and there's ghost heat, which is one of PGI's pseudo solution to the bad heat system that favors concentrated alpha strikes over chain firing. It's meant to keep people from using a large number of certain similar weapons at once, and it does this. . . kinda badly. Yes some blame lies with the players exploiting the broken system, but really the gun is there and people are just trying to win the knife fight. If you think it's bad in a fire-starter, you'll really hate what happens to you in an assault 'Mech. Then you're slow AND your torso sections are easy to pick out.

So tldr: yes, damage isn't as spread out as it should be for 'direct fire' weapons, and a lack of mobility or situational awareness will get you knifed in the spine. Yes, it's boring. Yes, it's bad design. Some of it's you, some of it's the game.

You can have fun, you can work around it and get better. You can choose to pick up the gun or fight with the knife, but the gun is there.

Edited by no one, 23 January 2016 - 02:07 AM.

[dragnier1]

That is what happens when you show your back. Sometimes i think players who like showing their back should just put all their armour there...

[Rogue Jedi]

I setup my 30+ ton lights to survive at least 1 AC20 hit to the rear, on the 20-25 ton Mechs that it not practical, but surviving a single AC20 hit is adequate, your 30 hitpoints (8 armor and 22 structure) on the back means a dual Gauss hit ^{(30 damage)} will kill you, and if you are targeted by an FS9-A with 8 SPL ^{(32 damage)} you would also be dead, ether up it to 9 points so you can survive a single dual Gauss alpha if you get caught out in the open by someone who is good enough to hit a fast moving light ^{(because no light pilot stops moving while in sight of the enemy, that is probably the first thing a light pilot learns),} or strip it back further and make very sure no enemy ever sees your rear armor.
there is no way you will ever be able to survive any Alpha Strike to the back, a Firestarter can have up-to 66 total health on the CT ^{(if all armor is ether forward or rear),} some Mechs can be configured for over 100 Alpha Strike.


The solution is to make it as hard as possible for the enemy to hit you, as others have said in a Firestarter speed is your armor.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 23 January 2016 - 08:00 AM.

[epikt]

Fox With A Shotgun, on 23 January 2016 - 12:28 AM, said:

And in a firestarter? Let me cry a river for you, because firestarters are durable. You should be sticked down first before even losing either ST or CT. Pilot a LCT-1E and you will know the meaning of fragile.

Hehe, my though exactly. On my Locust: 2 rear armor + 12 internal, I'm basically one shot by any thing. Does not happen a lot actually, but yep, one (un)lucky gauss and bye-bye.
On any chassis, being one-shot is a light mech pilot's daily bread. In fact it's even part of the excitement, why it feels so great.

That being said, I find the rear side torsos on the Firestarter a bit vulnerable. I still place only 3 or 4 armor points on this locations, there's really no real point on placing more, but it's quite common to be one-shot in the rear sides.

[Leone]

MadFrenchie, on 23 January 2016 - 12:05 AM, said:

Anyone care to attempt to defend such an atrocious situation?

I believe the response is a resounding no. Lights are some of the toughest mechs in the game to take out, should their pilot know how to exploit their strengths. This is counterbalanced by the fact that lights are the easiest class in the game to take out, should they be caught unawares. Lights live, and die, by map awareness and placement.

Working as intended.

~Leone

Edited by Leone, 23 January 2016 - 05:38 AM.

[KaitRaven]

It's a light mech, it happens. Do you complain about headshots in FPS games as well?

[TheCaptainJZ]

IMO, OP sounds like he's already made his mind up in his review.

[loopala]

As someone who has mastered all locusts, HAHAHAHA

One shot happens. It is the trade off for the ability to 2 shot almost any IS heavy out there with an XL in a rear torso. Now if you are getting 1 shot every game it might be time to rethink being a light pilot.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

MadFrenchie, on 23 January 2016 - 12:05 AM, said:

This was, quite honestly, the most ridiculous thing I've ever seen.

Just got one-shotted in the back of my Firestarter with no rear armor damage prior to the killing blow. My left and right torso was 8 rear armor, my center was 10. I'll be honest; that seems cheap as hell.

I understand lights play a specific role, and if I had vacated rear armor altogether I could see this... But leaving at least 8 armor, this should not happen. Critical damage? Sure. One-shot? Nah. That's just awful game mechanics imo.

I've been playing recently to get a feel for a review article I have been working on for another site. This experience doesn't contribute to a positive review, quite honestly.

Anyone care to attempt to defend such an atrocious situation?

You are in a light mech and 8 armor is basically nothing. As its been said you have 30 points of armor, a lot of light mechs can go through that much armor in a shot, so you aren't safe from anything even at full health if you stand still.

Usually I run with 2 points of armor on the rear and the rest on the front and just make sure I never have my back turned to the enemy. If you don't want to be one-shotted try out a heavier mech with more armor, just realize you'll take much much more damage and won't be able to dodge it like in a light mech.

[Zookeeper Dan]

I got one shotted in the back piloting my Hunchback IIC by a Marauder. My fault, I saw the blip and ignored it thinking it was a light running away. It happens to even heavier mechs than lights.

And as a light pilot you should live on the thought of taking out assaults in 3 or so back shots.

Low back armor has always been a part of Battletech.

[JC Daxion]

I've been killed in one shot, Front CT on my commando... Back torso of any location on a firestarter, No problem what so ever. It is part of playing a light..

In the future, try running sideways.. that way you only loose an arm, and not get killed

[Takashi Uchida]

Some of the responses are kinda too harsh but they do have a point. OP, here's some practical advice.

My qualifications: Certified Locust Nut (All Locusts mastered, with W/L and K/D in the green for all but one, top 10 challenge, etc, whatever).

First, think about how hard it is to land an AC/20,Gauss, or PPC on a fast moving light. Not that easy right? A lot of the time I won't even bother unless I'm SUPER confident because missing is expensive (ammo for those weapons is sparse, PPCs are hot, long reload time for all). So if someone is able to do that, hey that's just the game rewarding their skill/luck. Funny enough, a lot of those people who are capable of making that shot are probably out laser-vomiting instead, AND I've found that a lot of times opponents will just blow your legs off.

Ok, it is hard to hit a moving light. It's not too hard to hit a stationary light. Now some folks will tell you to NEVER stand still. You don't have to literally do that. There are situations where you will be okay standing still (ie. pausing momentarily to check seismic around a corner). But for the most part, you want to keep moving. You don't want to stop and shoot.

So you're running and still get hit. The thing to do here is to "snake" your movement and not run in a straight line. An average player may be able to lead a shot on a light who is running in a straight line at a constant speed, but may not be able to hit a frantically swerving mech, It's true that the fastest way to get from point A to point B is go in a straight line at max speed, but it does make you a lot more hittable,

I personally put very little armor in the back (so if you see me in game, shoot me there). From lights up to assaults, I try to get away with as little as possible. It's been a while since I've gotten the backside one-shot in a light mech. I'm more likely to receive friendly fire in the back than that. I'm more scared of another light getting close hitting that back armor than I am an AC20 (because I won't be able to outrun him).

Above all this: situational awareness. You generally don't want to be in a situation where someone sneaks behind you or is forcing you to run away (some exceptions, like squirrel baiting). If you must run, snake your movement and keep your torso moving to try to spread the damage around or take it on the arms.

[Takashi Uchida]

Danth Reduviid, on 23 January 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

I got one shotted in the back piloting my Hunchback IIC by a Marauder. My fault, I saw the blip and ignored it thinking it was a light running away. It happens to even heavier mechs than lights.

The new Polar map is brutal for this! I was in a slow assault mech and some a dual Gauss jager got behind our whole team lol. I had that cherry red core before I even knew it!

[Satan n stuff]

BeaverOnFire, on 23 January 2016 - 12:21 AM, said:

Just to be clear: You are complaining that you got one-shotted in the back in your undamaged firestarter? First of all: Who shot you and with which mech with which weapons? If it was a locust with one medium laser, ok, i would get your saltiness. But to be honest, getting one-shot in an XL-light happens. You don´t use your Armor as a defensive mechanism, you should use your mobility instead.

Learn how to drive a light, move and don´t expose your back to the enemy. It is as simple as that.

PS: If it bothers you so much getting one shotted in the back, stop copying builds from the internet (gman loves his 8t armor in the rear, i know) and put more armor in the back ffs.

Gman uses that much back armor? Filthy casual.
My assaults don't even have that much back armor and they usually go down after losing just about everything but the legs.

[epikt]

Takashi Uchida, on 23 January 2016 - 01:56 PM, said:

First, think about how hard it is to land an AC/20,Gauss, or PPC on a fast moving light. Not that easy right? [...] So if someone is able to do that, hey that's just the game rewarding their skill/luck.

It's actually easier that it looks as long as you can spot that particular moment when they are predictable, moving in a straight line. Of course the best light pilots are kind of slippery. But I remember last spring/summer when I was playing the Panther consistently (=> confidence + good muscle memory), I killed A LOT of lights, especially Locusts, with my twin PPCs.

Anyway, because I know it's not the easiest thing, and that even with practice and consistency it's still rewarding to hit a light with a projectile, as a Locust pilot I never fail to congratulate anyone catching me with an AC/gauss/PPC. Just being good sport. Actually, it feels better to die fast by an AC/20 than by the slow attrition of lasers.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

So you are upset that when somebody concentrates fire on your weakest point you get killed?

Makes sense