56 replies to this topic

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

KodiakGW, on 27 January 2016 - 05:45 AM, said:

Wrong! We are all Mercs. We buy all of our equipment. Command gives us nothing, and we decide what contracts we want to take. If a contract comes up saying you are expected to stand on a bunch of points next to a volcano, possibly never engage the enemy, and get only enough CBills to buy a flamer, you know what I would say? "NOPE! Next contract! Oh, a fight on a moon for a HPG Uplink? I'll take that one."



And a dropship would allow you to take multiple mechs, not just one with a specific loadout. If intelligence was so bad that they said you would be assaulting or protecting a base on Hoth, yet when you arrive you find you are fighting other lances on Degobah, you would shoot the intelligence officer for gross incompetence upon your return. That is, if you were in a Battletech novel.

And before you fire back with a planet have multiple temperate zones, only incompetent intelligence would tell you you were capping points in the Amazon, then upon arrive would be "NOPE! You need to go fight in New York City. Yeah, that's the ticket." They would have some general idea of what part of the planet would be attacked.

And guess what... Information IS that bad in Battletech as a setting.

Combine that with the fact that yes, the unit could bring a few mechs, but it's unlikely you'd beable to bring more than maybe, MAYBE 2 per Mechwarrior, It's just the waya the setting is... yes it's stupid from an IRL standpoint, but it's just how it is IN battletech.

You don't have to like it, but you DO have to accept it, as that's how the setting is setup. Mechs are are RARE, they're old, and mostly falling apart. And given the dropship we see in MWO, actually we're lucky to even have enough room for the 12 mechs we're bringing into battle as is.

[CK16]

Eh, no thanks! Unless PGI ran it and have everything on rotation ect.

But then again we don't have enough players currently to do this. Hell think of freaking any Battlefield game and some of the most popular lobbies are Map X in game mode Y 24/7. Like oh idk...Metro Rush on 24/7. Sure it's fun but it gets dull fast imo.


Wait.....you evil thing....this is over a year old...nice necro >.>

Edited by CK16, 15 February 2017 - 07:42 AM.

[Mystere]

Astrocanis, on 26 January 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

You aren't a soldier. This is not war. It's a game. For fun.

It's a game about near-apocalyptic warfare. Not being in complete control of all variables adds to immersion in a war game.

And by the way, as far as I am concerned with regard to BT, **** eSports, outside of a dedicated and immersive Solaris VII mode!

RedDragon, on 25 January 2016 - 04:13 PM, said:

Well, it worked fine for MW3 and 4 ...

What worked in 1999 does not necessarily work today, especially from a business and intellectual property perspective.

Edited by Mystere, 15 February 2017 - 08:31 AM.

[Coolant]

Sure I remember in MW4:Mercs. I hosted a server in Mercs. Coolant's MW4 Theme Park. Was a brawler server on the best short-range maps, and made even better because you could choose what drop zones were used and I always chose the closest. Had lots of unique features that no other server had but that's another topic.

[Mystere]

Choppah, on 26 January 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

Oh it doesn't, but why waste resources on continuous MM development when the end result is lopsided matches either way?

Because an overwhelming flood of grown babies whined loudly and cried vast flowing rivers of male nerd rage tears that random matching was totally unfair. And so the MM endlessly kept changing because what these very same people really wanted was to be dropped against enemies that they can effortlessly club like baby seals instead of them being the clubbed baby seals.

Edited by Mystere, 15 February 2017 - 08:39 AM.

[Mystere]

KodiakGW, on 26 January 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

And only a piss poor commander sends his soldiers into a battle with suboptimal equipment when he has optimal equipment available.

Guess that's why you're not my commander.

[Mystere]

Oh crap!

[Kasumi Sumika]

[KodiakGW]

Thanks to KritterBug for the necro post. Thought this was settled.

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 15 February 2017 - 07:37 AM, said:

And guess what... Information IS that bad in Battletech as a setting.

And in Battletech you can't customize mechs as much as we can. And in Battletech everything is decided by dice rolls instead of you personal skill. And in Battletech there are no quirks. And in Battletech there are no modules. And in Battletech a team is not made up of a mix of IS and Clan mechs. And in Battletech Clans run Stars and IS run Lances. And in Battletech you wouldn't have 100+ mechs owned. And in Battletech....

See where I'm going with this?

MECHWARRIOR Online (in small letters - A Battletech Game)

Want to play it like Battletech? Then always run stock mechs or near stock mechs (no upgrading to Endo or DHS), and sell everything in your inventory that the FRR (your current contract) does not run. Report back on how much fun that was for you.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

KodiakGW, on 15 February 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

Thanks to KritterBug for the necro post. Thought this was settled.



And in Battletech you can't customize mechs as much as we can. And in Battletech everything is decided by dice rolls instead of you personal skill. And in Battletech there are no quirks. And in Battletech there are no modules. And in Battletech a team is not made up of a mix of IS and Clan mechs. And in Battletech Clans run Stars and IS run Lances. And in Battletech you wouldn't have 100+ mechs owned. And in Battletech....

See where I'm going with this?

MECHWARRIOR Online (in small letters - A Battletech Game)

Want to play it like Battletech? Then always run stock mechs or near stock mechs (no upgrading to Endo or DHS), and sell everything in your inventory that the FRR (your current contract) does not run. Report back on how much fun that was for you.

Oh I did that a few times.. in fact for the most part, I run many mechs stock, or near stock... or with "sensable" upgrades such as DHS[which in lore, are a relatively easy upgrade to mechs unlike Endo.] or adjusting to full armor values while trying to keep near, or even downgrading the existing armament.

I find it great fun honestly. I often times use mechs exclusive, or near exclusive to my faction, and tend towards a +/- 1 weapon tier system [for instance, an area that came stock with a flamer, can only be upgraded to a small laser, if it came with a small laser, it could upgrade to a medium, or downgrade to a flamer.]

I LOVE playing like this. Because it gives the game actual flavor. It forces me to work within confines of the intention of the mech, and when I can take a HBK 4G and rubble a direwhale with it in single combat I feel far more accomplished than if I did so running the meta of the month.

Actually in Battletech, there ARE quirks, and pilot skills and the like, quite often, used within the Mechwarrior RPG setting [changed to "Battletech: A Time of War RPG"] It is not difficult to extropolate certern functions of the tabletop to a live envoirnment. I love how you guy's who deride the tabletop setting, constantly rely on "But dice rolls!" yes, in that form of gameplay, it's needed... here it is not, which means there have to be concessions made within the existing Mechwarrior system, to allow the "flavor" of Battletech to translate to a real time game.

So let's break down your complaints:

1)in Battletech you can't customize mechs as much as we can.
False, in fact you can do entire swaps of Endo and all at our current timeline... and even Jurryrig clan tech to IS mechs in Battletech. the mitigating factor is time and C-bills in the tabletop, and having a facility that is of the proper tech level to be able to preform the required upgrades.

2)And in Battletech everything is decided by dice rolls instead of you personal skill.
Dice Roll is ment to simulate luck, in tabletop, there must be a way to resolve combat, and that is the way, you are correct, it doesn't translate correctly to a FPS style game... however, certern aspects can be translated. IE with a CoF style mechanic, you can simulate the somewhat "random" shot placement reflected by the "To Hit" dice modifer, which can be mitigated by speed, target retention, ect. [granted we didn't go this route, but the point is, you can easily translate this mechanic to a real time game without issue, and in fact, most FPS games do this anyway with the "blooming" reticle... MWO is one of the fiew shooters that have pinpoint fire accuracy no matter what.]

3)And in Battletech there are no quirks.
Oh, swing and a miss, wrong again bucko... there are quirks, generally used with Tac Ops, and various expansion modules, including but not limited to the original Solaris VII expansion and the like. Certern weapon types can have specific characteristics, as well as some variants having specific "quirks" due to their design, such as the Rifleman and Jagermech's ability to "Flip arms" backwards. There are also rules for specific design isuses, such as the Mauler's penchant for ejecting it's pilots into walls.

4)And in Battletech there are no modules.

By modules I assume you mean the range/targeting/speed tweak stuff. and not the arty strikes and the like. And you're right, there are rules however, for tweaking weaponry and improving it's effecency.

5)And in Battletech a team is not made up of a mix of IS and Clan mechs.
After the clan invasion and during the Civil War era, actually it was quite common for House and even Merc units to field a mix of Clan and IS designs.

6)and in Battletech Clans run Stars and IS run Lances.

Agreed, I fought for a 12 v 10 system back when PGI was working towards 12 v 12... this one's entirely on them, but you could consider the clan force a "Reinforced Binary" Which would be two stars with additional leftover mechs... still arguably within clan doctorine. And IS units still function in lances, in fact, at the 12 v 12 level, we're working with a full company of mechs on the field for one side via IS standards.

7)And in Battletech you wouldn't have 100+ mechs owned.

You could if you were one of the top merc units, of course then those mechs would be spread through the entire unit, so fair point, still you could arague all those mechs that were not personal variants brought in by other warriors, belong to the head of the unit.

Look, I'm 100% for changing things where they need to be changed for a better gameplay experience... but in the instance of map voting, it's stagnated the game worse than the meta... because it's part of what ENABLES the meta. We can always just choose where we're going to drop, sure we might not always get that choice, BUT the fact that we can vote, means that the more preferental maps get picked costantly, which is a crutch for players.

Players will pick the maps that give them an advantage, thus leading to cold maps, or large, free sighline maps... I've often heard the most hated maps are the ones with fog, or other visual blocks.

And i've witnessed exactly that.

So, do you want to try again, to tell me why this game can't fall closer to the lore it's based on?

[Choppah]

Choppah, on 26 January 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

Oh it doesn't, but why waste resources on continuous MM development when the end result is lopsided matches either way?

Mystere, on 15 February 2017 - 08:38 AM, said:

Because an overwhelming flood of grown babies whined loudly and cried vast flowing rivers of male nerd rage tears that random matching was totally unfair. And so the MM endlessly kept changing because what these very same people really wanted was to be dropped against enemies that they can effortlessly club like baby seals instead of them being the clubbed baby seals.

I know this a necro'd thread but I'll add my correction anyway. My post should have included "...but,from PGI's perpective,why waste...". My post was so supposed to be more "why it won't change" and less why "the way it is now". Cheers.

[WhineyThePoo]

By the power of necromancy I have but one thing to say, private server.

[Saint Scarlett Johan]

CMDR Sunset Shimmer, on 26 January 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

You "Want" the choice.

Guess what, as a soldier, you don't GET a choice. You go where command tells you to go, with the equipment you have.

Say that to my E-DD214. I'm gonna go wrap myself up in it now because it keeps me safe from all the military bullshjt.

[KodiakGW]

Hmmm, do I spend a lot of time responding to a wall of text pointing out that the person contradicted themselves on one point, believes that quirks like 50% ERPPC velocity are achievable in Battletech, and believes Speed Tweak is a module. All those points having nothing to do with the purpose of the tread.

Naaa, especially when he ended up agreeing with the point of the thread. Random game mode/map enables the meta. Either voted or randomly chosen. Because the meta works most of the time when you have no clue of map/mode you are going to get. So everyone takes the meta. Seeing the map/mode, by the way of server browser (or maybe drop deck), and being able to choose a non-meta mech that would work well on it, adds "flavor." Hot City map, Skirmish mode? Go ahead and take your PPFLD dual Gauss PPC Night Gyr. When I round the corner with my dual LBX10, dual ASRM4 IV4, I'll have one of your armor stripped legs gone before you can cycle up a second alpha. Better make it count because in less than 4 seconds later, the other leg will be gone too.

That is, until the new skill tree is released.

[CMDR Sunset Shimmer]

KodiakGW, on 15 February 2017 - 04:43 PM, said:

Hmmm, do I spend a lot of time responding to a wall of text pointing out that the person contradicted themselves on one point, believes that quirks like 50% ERPPC velocity are achievable in Battletech, and believes Speed Tweak is a module. All those points having nothing to do with the purpose of the tread.

Naaa, especially when he ended up agreeing with the point of the thread. Random game mode/map enables the meta. Either voted or randomly chosen. Because the meta works most of the time when you have no clue of map/mode you are going to get. So everyone takes the meta. Seeing the map/mode, by the way of server browser (or maybe drop deck), and being able to choose a non-meta mech that would work well on it, adds "flavor." Hot City map, Skirmish mode? Go ahead and take your PPFLD dual Gauss PPC Night Gyr. When I round the corner with my dual LBX10, dual ASRM4 IV4, I'll have one of your armor stripped legs gone before you can cycle up a second alpha. Better make it count because in less than 4 seconds later, the other leg will be gone too.

That is, until the new skill tree is released.

Actually my point was that CHOICE enables the meta more than random map/mode... but good try.

[General Taskeen]

KodiakGW, on 15 February 2017 - 09:15 AM, said:

Want to play it like Battletech? Then always run stock mechs or near stock mechs (no upgrading to Endo or DHS), and sell everything in your inventory that the FRR (your current contract) does not run. Report back on how much fun that was for you.

Playing Battletech or MechWarrior was always determined by player consensus.

Want to play stock or customs? Up to GMs and all involved in general to play by a set of rules. Same thing was emulated for Multiplayer servers in old MechWarriors games.

So in other words there is no way to play 'like' Battletech in MWO 'public' servers. Run a stock? The matchmaker doesn't even check to throw you into a group of players with non-customs, so how can someone report back if their time was well spent or fair when it doesn't take even that into account. It's a giant Franken-**** show, hit the "play" button and gamble for virtual Mech Warrior Slots in Permanent Solaris Team Deathmatches.

[LordNothing]

i actually missed those. i missed when games came with the dedicated server mode so anyone could set up a private server.

this doesn't work in an active f2p game. you need to control every aspect of the server side to prevent people getting stuff for free and cheaters/hackers from disassembling it and try to find exploits. security through obscurity and all. at some point the cost of upkeep exceeds the revenue and the game dies. however it doesn't have to die forever. pgi could be benevolent and release the server side stuff as kind of a handoff to the fans and let them set up some unofficial servers (and would open the game up to mods). i dont think this will happen given the nature of the ip (and pgi itself) but it would be nice if it did. if it ever happens its going to be an end of life thing.

Edited by LordNothing, 16 February 2017 - 04:13 AM.