88 replies to this topic

[FupDup]

Off topic about the Fox...but I'm getting nostalgic and have a sudden craving for side-torso missile hardpoints like MW4 had. Or we can go full-hog and give it energy in each side torso...

Do want and must have.


Or come on, at the very least give us some damn Protomech AC/2s along with side torso ballistics that don't require JJs (because I want my dual high-mounted ballistics, goddangit!).

Edited by FupDup, 25 January 2016 - 01:26 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

FupDup, on 25 January 2016 - 01:25 PM, said:

Off topic about the Fox...but I'm getting nostalgic and have a sudden craving for side-torso missile hardpoints like MW4 had. Or we can go full-hog and give it energy in each side torso...

Do want and must have.

I just miss actually being able to go fast in it

[FupDup]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 January 2016 - 01:26 PM, said:

I just miss actually being able to go fast in it

I once had an idea that if the Fox user didn't mount any JJs, they'd actually get a speed quirk like the Thor currently has (although probably a higher value, e.g. 10%).

Nice things cannot be had, especially not for the underdoges.

[Khobai]

10% more speed isnt gonna fix the kitfox lmao. Even if it got rescaled to proper urbanmech size AND got a 30% speed increase... it still wouldnt be as good as a firestarter.

kitfox is a super troll mech. its for jumping on enemy LRM boats heads in pug matches and laughing when you shoot all their LRMs down. ANd then machine gunning them to death because theyre so bad they dont even put lasers on their lrm boats.

Edited by Khobai, 25 January 2016 - 01:42 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 25 January 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

10% more speed isnt gonna fix the kitfox lmao.

Neither is 7 MGs.

[Revis Volek]

My go to 3 AMS mech is the NVA

Hazzula, on 25 January 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

With LRM boats back in vogue, and LRMs falling from the sky like its 2013, i decided to make a list of all of the battlemechs with multiple AMS hardpoints.

You can check it out here.

I made the list for people who want mechs with more AMS hardpoints because lets face it, with the amount of LRMs falling from the sky and the fact that you cant laser them to death, 2 is better than one.

unfortunately i dont have enough cbills to buy the mechs and test loadouts so i would appreciate it if people who can test out some multiple AMS loadouts share them with us

The NVA can do 3 AMS hardpoints and sport some pretty serious lasers.


Its is leaps and bounds better then the KTF since the ECM nerf IMO.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 25 January 2016 - 01:44 PM, said:

I disagree since I use it primarily for trolling.

If you want to troll then you'd be better off replacing your ERML with Flamers and not even having ECM in the first place.

[Revis Volek]

Hazzula, on 25 January 2016 - 11:15 AM, said:

This isnt true at all though, with MGs you just have to pick a target that doesnt have anymore armor. Each MG round is a chance to crit. A critical hit can knock a component right off so you dont always have to do all the damage.

Each MG round has a VERY SLIM to ALMOST NON EXISTENT chance to crit.


They are still very inferior to other weapons, Lasers and TC's make the crit chance on MG's just about worthless.


They dont crit better, they dont do ANY DMG anymore and they really are not good.

[Khobai]

Quote

If you want to troll then you'd be better off replacing your ERML with Flamers and not even having ECM in the first place.

No. I still like to actually do damage and get kills while im trolling. flamers are way too bad for even that.

Quote

Each MG round has a VERY SLIM to ALMOST NON EXISTENT chance to crit.

The problem isnt that machine guns arnt good at getting crits... the problem is GETTING CRITS IS POINTLESS. blowing off the whole location or killing the mech outright is just easier and better.

Quote

Lasers and TC's make the crit chance on MG's just about worthless.

crit chance is worthless on both MGs and lasers anyway. its worthless on LBXs too. getting crits is entirely pointless because TTK is so pathetically low that mechs die way before critical hits can even matter.

For crits to actually matter in this game, PGI would have to massively increase TTK, so you actually stay alive long enough for crit damage to accumulate and start knocking out weapons/equipment.

Also PGI has to get rid of the dumb counterproductive game mechanic where crits do more internal structure damage. Doing more internal structure damage makes mechs die faster which defeats the whole purpose of crits which isnt to kill mechs but rather to knock out their weapons.

Edited by Khobai, 25 January 2016 - 02:14 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Khobai, on 25 January 2016 - 02:10 PM, said:

No. I still like to actually do damage and get kills while im trolling. flamers are way too bad for even that.



The problem isnt that machine guns arnt good at getting crits... the problem is GETTING CRITS IS POINTLESS. blowing off the whole location or killing the mech outright is just easier and better.



crit chance is worthless on both MGs and lasers anyway. its worthless on LBXs too. getting crits is entirely pointless because TTK is so pathetically low that mechs die way before critical hits can even matter.

For crits to actually matter in this game, PGI would have to massively increase TTK, so you actually stay alive long enough for crit damage to accumulate and start knocking out weapons/equipment.

Also PGI has to get rid of the dumb counterproductive game mechanic where crits do more internal structure damage. Doing more internal structure damage makes mechs die faster which defeats the whole purpose of crits which isnt to kill mechs but rather to knock out their weapons.

Agreed 100% and thank you for elaborating some very important details i forgot.

[jss78]

A couple of my regular rides are a twin-AMS CRB-27 and a triple-AMS KFX-C. Once in a while you get games where you really make a big difference, but truth be told, those games don't so often as to really justify spending several tons on AMS units and ammo.

I thought the recent ECM nerf and LRM buffs might change the picture there, but they didn't. At least here in Tier 2 people just don't lurm enough, and even when they do, they're too easily countered even without AMS.

Things were different though immediately after Polar Highlands came out. I ran the Kit Fox to great effect while we had every other game there.

[Uncle Totty]

Soultraxx, on 25 January 2016 - 07:57 AM, said:

Ive ran a triple AMS Kit Fox a few times. I didnt really contribute much via damage output but like to think the 7000 or 9000 AMS rounds (I cant remember off hand) I went through during the match contributed to our victory.

But is not a necessity if you play smart/ get lucky or both.

Edit added....thinking about it, even though I ran it with good intentions, it was as much a lazy way for me to play as it is people a) spamming Lurms or b ) people not bothering to equip AMS themselves.

I dont enjoy Lurming and neither do I enjoy playing a CiWS mech.

It would be nice if we get points for that. (Providing AMS cover for our teammates.)

[Revis Volek]

Nathan K, on 25 January 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

It would be nice if we get points for that. (Providing AMS cover for our teammates.)

I dont know why this isnt so...

The easiest way to start making something worth while is to make it so it lucrative to use.

Next comes ease of use and balance, but offering some Cbones for AMS mechs that actually SHOOT DOWN LRMS would be a great start.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Revis Volek, on 25 January 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

I dont know why this isnt so...

The easiest way to start making something worth while is to make it so it lucrative to use.

Next comes ease of use and balance, but offering some Cbones for AMS mechs that actually SHOOT DOWN LRMS would be a great start.

Because some of us would rather people take more effective loadouts than take the AMS troll builds to farm c-bills.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 January 2016 - 02:37 PM.

[Revis Volek]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 January 2016 - 02:37 PM, said:

Because some of us would rather people take more effective loadouts than take the AMS troll builds to farm c-bills.

And whats stopping you from doing it? Your telling me a lowly triple AMS kitfox being able to make Cbills totals rivaling what other mechs would breaks your fun time?

No one is tieing your hands, i also never said it should be able to FARM cbills, you are putting words in my mouth. It doesnt have to be 1,000 Cbills per missile shot down, its could be 1-2 cbills per shot and you would just get an extra 2000-4000 cbills a match.


How you get FARMING from making something not completely worthless to take is amazing. I pretty sure i didn't say anything you are alluding to. Please re read and comprehend then come back to rebuttal.

If you make it decent and lucrative how is it still trolly btw? Kind of a contradiction IMO.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Revis Volek, on 25 January 2016 - 02:43 PM, said:

And whats stopping you from doing it? Your telling me a lowly triple AMS kitfox being able to make Cbills totals rivaling what other mechs would breaks your fun time?

No one is tieing your hands, i also never said it should be able to FARM cbills, you are putting words in my mouth. It doesnt have to be 1,000 Cbills per missile shot down, its could be 1-2 cbills per shot and you would just get an extra 2000-4000 cbills a match.


How you get FARMING from making something not completely worthless to take is amazing. I pretty sure i didn't say anything you are alluding to. Please re read and comprehend then come back to rebuttal.

If you make it decent and lucrative how is it still trolly btw? Kind of a contradiction IMO.

I don't think you got what I was hinting at, you are rewarding a play style that is not effective and if anything misleading if you want players to progress in skill. Make AMS worth taking then you can reward players taking it. Rewards should reward good play, and AMS support mechs really aren't that currently.

[Khobai]

Quote

don't think you got what I was hinting at, you are rewarding a play style that is not effective and if anything misleading if you want players to progress in skill. Make AMS worth taking then you can reward players taking it. Rewards should reward good play, and AMS support mechs really aren't that currently.

what a load of crap. people should be able to play however they want and get rewarded. If I wanna run around in a kitfox with machine guns, who gives a !@#$, especially if im getting kills and racking up better damage than the rest of my team.

people like YOU are the problem. you think everyone should only be running around in tier1 meta mechs using long range lasers and nothing else. and thats the only kindve play that should be rewarded.
metaplay is BORING. it defeats the whole purpose of having such a wide selection of mechs and being able to customize them because every metabuild is already min/maxed, optimized, and predetermined.

what the game actually needs is less players like you that copy/paste builds from metamechs.com and only care about how much damage they do or how big they can grow their epeen. NO ONE CARES. Im here to have fun and how I have fun is upto me. You dont get to decide that with ridiculous ultimatums like "play this exact way or you dont get a reward" ill keep playing my bad mechs like my dual AC20 cicada and theres nothing you can do about it lolol.

Edited by Khobai, 25 January 2016 - 03:04 PM.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Khobai, on 25 January 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

what a load of crap. people should be able to play however they want and get rewarded. If I wanna run around in a kitfox with machine guns, who gives a !@#$, especially if im getting kills and racking up better damage than the rest of my team.

Because the whole point of rewarding specific actions is to reward good play, to help learn what is good and what isn't? I'm not against rewards for just playing (in fact for c-bills I think it should only be that), but those shouldn't be specific to anything, AMS or otherwise. Also, where did I say rewards should only reward one style of play? That is the assumption you make, I think rewards should be aimed at developing good habits both in mechlab and in gameplay, and unfortunately because AMS isn't a good habit to build with (because th, I don't think it should really be rewarded. The goal of any balance changes should be to make more styles of play more useful and reward each style.

Khobai, on 25 January 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

people like YOU are the problem. you think everyone should only be running around in tier1 meta mechs using long range lasers and nothing else. and thats the only kindve play that should be rewarded.
metaplay is BORING.

I think you need to read my siggy thank you, I play other things (including dual AC20 CDA-3C when I mastered it).

Also, Gman's metamechs builds are bad half the time, so .

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 25 January 2016 - 03:15 PM.

[Uncle Totty]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 25 January 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

Because the whole point of rewarding specific actions is to reward good play, to help learn what is good and what isn't? I'm not against rewards for just playing (in fact for c-bills I think it should only be that), but those shouldn't be specific to anything, AMS or otherwise. Also, where did I say rewards should only reward one style of play? That is the assumption you make, I think rewards should be aimed at developing good habits both in mechlab and in gameplay, and unfortunately because AMS isn't a good habit to build with (because th, I don't think it should really be rewarded. The goal of any balance changes should be to make more styles of play more useful and reward each style.


I think you need to read my siggy thank you, I play other things (including dual AC20 CDA-3C when I mastered it).

Also, Gman's metamechs builds are bad half the time, so .

Working on keeping my teammates alive is not a good habit? How?

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Nathan K, on 25 January 2016 - 04:48 PM, said:

Working on keeping my teammates alive is not a good habit? How?

Because doing damage is a more effective way at doing just that, and damage isn't nearly as situational as AMS is.