91 replies to this topic

[evilC]

The Leo Bodnar one I have is not cheap, there are cheaper models on the market.
I know with the Leo board you can use pretty much any pot or hall sensor, but I am not sure about the other boards - best to check.

[mclang]

Okay, I have to check what is cheapest way to get one shipped in Finland.

Another possibility seems to be some Teensy++ boards, but as I understand it Leo Bodnar BU0836 works right out of the box, whereas with Teensy I have to do some Arduino(?) programming. I know Arduino so that's not a problem though.

[mclang]

Then again, I started to experiment with FreePIE.

I can make my left-hand joystick to have large Y-axis deadzone so that using X-axis to steer doesn't bleed through to Y-axis and reset speed. After that I have two possibilities:
1. Pushing more than e.g 50% forward/backward means keys W and S
2. Make e.g five zones for both forward and backward that set speed directly to 20/40/60/80/100%

Only problem with the second is that it needs additional logic for determining which way, forward or backward, the mech should be going.

[evilC]

In MWO's settings, you want the analog throttle to be set to ?Full Range? (I think this is what it is called).
In this mode, when the axis is at center, you are stopped, when the axis is forward you are going forward, and when the axis is back you are reversing.
That way, you do not need to worry about forward / reverse mode, it is always correctly handled.

However, the negative side of this is that the stick axis needs to remain in the same place for you to maintain the same speed.
However, you could have the input axis control the virtual output axis and just increment / decrement the position of the output axis.

AFAIK Leo will ship anywhere in the world.

[mclang]

Yes, I have analog Throttle setup as you described.

Something like this could work with FreePIE:

deadzone = 0.2 * max_axis
throttle_level = filters.deadband(joystic[0].y, deadzone)
joystic[0].y = throttle_level

It took time to find that deadband filter but I didn't have time to test if assigning the filtered value back into the joystick Y axis value works... If it does, the above would be very good solution, because the deadband filter outputs zero when the value is under the limit but jumps directly to the real value otherwise, e.g 0 -> 500.

Except that I think there have to be some kind of logic to keep throttle at its set level when centering the stick and only reduce the level if pulling the stick back... And after this I think it is the same as using W and S keys

Edited by mclang, 17 February 2016 - 10:38 PM.

[evilC]

Yeah, that would be "Relative" throttle, which is not much better than keyboard throttle (You can choose how quickly to change speed, but you cannot "jump" instantly to a setting).

As an alternative to FreePIE, you could use my AHK library CvJoyInterface, which lets you control a vJoy stick from an AutoHotkey script.
This would allow you to send keyboard keys etc in response to joystick input.
There are no filters etc built into AHK or my library though, you would have to write those yourself.

[Rushin Roulette]

Mystere, on 12 February 2016 - 11:55 AM, said:

How about eye-tracking?

Great until a new mech is released... Its a bit embarrasing if that new Rifleman your teammate is fighting in catches your eye for some reason in the middle of a brawl.

[mclang]

Well, I tried that simple "deadzone with W/S keys" logic. And I have to say, it isn't slow!

It seems that if you press W/S keys fast enough, the throttle level increases or decreases even faster than I can do it when using normal analog throttle

Only problem is now that it is quite hard to set e.g 50% throttle, but it is seldom needed anyway, so this wii do now. I want to play for change anyway!

[ThorsMjolnir117]

I use these:

http://www.amazon.co...l/dp/B005GVWTS4

Left two pedals are for weapons group 4 then 6 (usually missles) and then arty strike and UAV for the right pedal.

[mclang]

Didn't know those kind of pedal exists

They are not for me though, because if I ever buy pedals, I want "real" ones so that I can use them with flight simulators also. If I needed only buttons, I could use something like XBox controller with my toes

In another note, I made a 15cm extension for my warthog. Now it feels splendid, I could even restore the original spring setup and the center detent doesn't matter anymore. I'm still missing the PS/2 splitter cable though, so I don't yet know how good or bad the stick is if used aiming, but I'm gonna try it when I get the mod and mouse emulation setup ready.

I maybe even make new thread about that if I have the time.

[Kissamies]

I've used joystick + mouse for FPS games for 20 years thanks to being introduced to it in MW2. It works great for me, but being held in in forward position all the time tends to wear out the joystick's centering rather fast, which then sucks when I want to play more regular flight sims. Even my otherwise great Thrustmaster t.16000m has developed a slight jitter, not being completely centered even when it is. Nothing that a dead zone can't fix, tho.

I have been considering CH Pro Throttle for my space sims to get those 6 axes of movement, and I think I could adapt it for MWO as well. I figure it would be throttle for throttle and that little analog thumb stick for turning the legs. There should be more than enough buttons for HOTAM. Maybe I could even try HOTAS when I care more about the feel than winning. No plans for foot pedals yet, though I have a cheap chinese footswitch. I'm surprised it hasn't broken yet. The control software is pretty crappy, though. Currently I'd want to configure it to right control for Star Citizen, but it only does left control.

[evilC]

If the software that came with your stick is not meeting your needs (Or your stick didnt come with any), you can always try my "Universal Joystick Remapper" (UJR) software (See link in sig), but this only handles Joystick:Joystick remapping.

I have a new replacement for UJR called "Universal Control Remapper" (UCR) which can be found here:
https://autohotkey.c...hp?f=19&t=12249
UCR can remap pretty much anything to anything.

[man du]

Hey all! I am glad a thread like this exists.

I have, up until 15 minutes ago, been using the Thrustmaster 16000m Joystick for my left hand while aiming and firing with a mouse. I have gone through two of them because I use the twist feature of the stick to turn my legs and as a result of rather aggressive play, a stabilizing piece of plastic snaps off inside the stick and renders it quite ineffective. I have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick that I am using now (not as comfortable in the hand but gets the job done) that I hope will be more sturdy than the Thrustmaster.

FWIW, I've never had to use corrective program stuff to help with Joystick input. My joystick experiences have been fine as far as I know. Would using something like that make my joysticking even more enjoyable?

Also! I'm sure you other joystickers have sweet custom desk setups for your gaming hardware, but an inexpensive alternative to carpentry/engineering is to put some sticky tac on the base of the joystick and press it onto the desk. Keeps my joystick in place through even the most aggressive of play sessions.

[Kissamies]

man du, on 25 February 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

I have, up until 15 minutes ago, been using the Thrustmaster 16000m Joystick for my left hand while aiming and firing with a mouse. I have gone through two of them because I use the twist feature of the stick to turn my legs and as a result of rather aggressive play, a stabilizing piece of plastic snaps off inside the stick and renders it quite ineffective. I have a Logitech Extreme 3D Pro Joystick that I am using now (not as comfortable in the hand but gets the job done) that I hope will be more sturdy than the Thrustmaster.

Outch. I use the X-axis for turning (or strafing in FPS games) not the twist. I think it might be better for the durability. My t.16000m has endured about 2 years of sporadic binges fairly well at least. I used Logitech WingMan Extreme 3D joysticks before that and went through quite a few. Usually the centering broke first. Then the potentiometers started to get dirty fairly periodically and requiring me to open the stick and clean them with some rubbing alcohol. Finally one or more of the buttons stopprd working. Granted, I don't play as fanatically any more or even bother to set up joystick for every FPS game I come across, but I think the Thrustmaster has been more durable. I don't know about your Logitech, but it looks like fairly similar to the old WingMan. If I had to get a new stick, I might consider the CH Flightstick Pro. An ugly thing, but CH products are widely praised for their durability. No handle twist, though.

Quote

FWIW, I've never had to use corrective program stuff to help with Joystick input. My joystick experiences have been fine as far as I know. Would using something like that make my joysticking even more enjoyable?

Sometimes they can be useful when the game's configuration options are lacking or you want some advanced stuff. For example, I used Thrustmaster's Target program to assing multiple functions to single buttons in MWO to make more efficient use of those that are on the hande. For Star Citizen I made one of the base buttons a "shift" button so I could put more functions on the remaining ones. I recently also discovered the joy of adjusting the curves with Star Citizen. Maybe less important when using the joystick to move, but there might be some utility there too.

Oh, and I have ordered that CH Pro Throttle. Good timing too, since I just managed to partially snap that little throttle lever my joystick has. As I said, it's mainly for my space simming, but I'll try to remember to come back and report on the viability of using that in MWO when I have tried it.

[mclang]

Kissamies, that need for constant forward push is what I'm planning to fix with FreePIE. I know it is possible, but I haven't had the time to make that logic yet.

And please, come back and report how CH Pro Throttle works with MWO!

I'd rather by good quality throttle if that works instead of Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X combo. Altough I'm not sure if I still need pedals with CH Pro Throttle when playing e.g Elite Dangerous or other space sim. Hotas X has that lever which CH doesn't!

[dwwolf]

Personally id use a lefthand compatible joystick ( preferably with hall sensors ) to control legs and throttle.
I tried throttle and mouse and didnt like the combo for turning ( on the throttle ) joystick might be more intuitive.

Joystick as the torso controller doesnt do it for me.

Edited by dwwolf, 27 February 2016 - 09:31 AM.

[Kissamies]

mclang, on 27 February 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

Kissamies, that need for constant forward push is what I'm planning to fix with FreePIE. I know it is possible, but I haven't had the time to make that logic yet.

Hmm, come to think of it, I actually use the numpad throttle values when I'm simply transitioning from place to place and switch to the stick throttle when the actual fighting starts. Maybe that, and the fact I don't play FPS with joystick so much any more, is why my Thrustmaster has endured.

Quote

And please, come back and report how CH Pro Throttle works with MWO!

I'd rather by good quality throttle if that works instead of Thrustmaster T-Flight Hotas X combo. Altough I'm not sure if I still need pedals with CH Pro Throttle when playing e.g Elite Dangerous or other space sim. Hotas X has that lever which CH doesn't!

Oh it has that lever in front. I didn't know that. I imagine it would easy to wrap one's head about it turning the 'mech's legs. The CH Pro Throttle has that analog thumb stick, which should give me strafe up/down/left/right in Star Citizen. I am hoping it will also be adequate for turning the legs in MWO, but we will see about that.

[evilC]

mclang, on 27 February 2016 - 08:13 AM, said:

Kissamies, that need for constant forward push is what I'm planning to fix with FreePIE. I know it is possible, but I haven't had the time to make that logic yet.

I am not getting why you need custom code here.
There are two ways to control throttle with an axis.
1) "Absolute" - The current position of the stick is the current throttle setting.
2) "Relative" - The throttle has it's own "current" setting, and stick input moves the current setting up or down. Leaving the stick centered does nothing.

So it sounds to me like you currently have "Absolute" mode (Which would be nice for a throttle unit, not so comfy for a sprung stick) and you want "Relative".
AFAIK there is a setting in MWO to change how it interprets the input. I can't play MWO on this PC, so I can't check what it is.

Failing that, what you are trying to do is very simple to do in code. If you like, I could knock you up a UCR plugin to do it.

[mclang]

Is there such setting for joystick axis?

Well then I'm a half-blind moron, because it didn't catch my eye... That will be the first thing I check when I have time to start MWO again. In either case, no need to do UCR plugin for me because I want to use FreePIE to do the mouse emolation also.

Although I am interested how you would code around the throttle issue

[Kissamies]

I have the CH Pro Throttle now. Some early observations:

• It's a comfortable way of controlling speed, though I am having trouble stopping to standstill. Probably just because I'm not used to it yet. Otherwise I may have to figure out a way to put a larger dead zone there or maybe detents.*
  
• The microstick does work for turning, but it's not awfully intuitive. It's also awfully feisty even with some curves put in and makes it hard to turn gently in the heat of the battle. Then again, not being a console peasant, I may just be not used to analog thumb sticks and get better with it over time. Foot pedals would probably be better and I may get those too in distant future.
  
• Plenty of switches and functions, but I still managed to fill them. I will have to figure out the rather intimidating control manager to get in the special functions I want.
  
• The front 4 way switch is a bit harder to reach than I thought.

I decided to figure this out in MWO before Star Citizen because MWO is simpler, but it turns out it was easier to figure out what to bind where for a space sim. I may come back for better report when I'm gotten more comfortable with it, but this may take some time. I don't play MWO so much right now.



*Came across this detent mod idea that has apparently been around for some time:

Edited by Kissamies, 01 March 2016 - 10:16 AM.