54 replies to this topic

[El Bandito]

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 06:18 PM, said:

whats the point of having a Nova with 12 energy hardpoints if you cant use them all? why does that even exist in the game?

They definitely need to quirk the nova with some heat capacity quirks so it can use its stock loadout without shutting down. Otherwise the mech has no point... because the whole point of the nova is to fire tons of energy weapons and overheat like a mofo.

So you advocate 84 damage alpha strike without shutting down?

12 SPL Nova is still a fearsome opponent, by the by.

Edited by El Bandito, 26 January 2016 - 07:04 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

So you advocate 84 damage alpha strike without shutting down? Shame on you!

yes. thats the whole point of the nova. big alphastrikes then shutting down. the mech literally has no other purpose for existing. thats how the mech is used in canon too.

My executioner with 11-12 CSPL (11 with targeting computer) and 1 CLPL does 79-85 damage in one alpha (I fire the pulse lasers 0.5 seconds apart but its basically one alpha). And I can fire TWICE without shutting down (three times with coolant). So I dont really understand your concern.

These huge laser alphas exist in the game. PGI hasnt done anything about it so they must be balanced

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2016 - 07:10 PM.

[Hobgoblin I]

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

Even if you fire 6 and 6 more 0.5 seconds later you shutdown. The heat capacity isnt high enough to use its stock loadout.

or...4 then 4 then 4...or 3 then 3 then 3 then 3. Weapons have different ranges for a reason. just because you don't see the value beyond alpha striking doesn't mean the amount of hardpoints is valueless to other players.

[FupDup]

I don't think the Nova Prime stock is a good example anyways because even in TT it was a poorly designed build.

Something far more effective in TT would be 9 ERML + 21 DHS, which would allow the mech to fire all 9 ERMLs while having only 3 points of net heat if standing still.


So, if you want to be able to use all 12 hardpoints that's one thing (e.g. add ER Micro Lasers for very low heat option to spam), but asking for those 12 hardpoints to be viable with 12 ERML is almost impossible without having completely absurdly huge gigaquirks.

Edited by FupDup, 26 January 2016 - 07:13 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Something far more effective in TT would be 9 ERML + 21 DHS, which would allow the mech to fire all 9 ERMLs while having only 3 points of net heat if standing still.

9 ERML only does 63 damage though. Thats wimpy as !@#$.

84 damage is way better.

the point of the nova isnt to be efficient. its to friggin blow someone away in one alphastrike.

Edited by Khobai, 26 January 2016 - 07:14 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 07:13 PM, said:

9 ERML only does 63 damage though. Thats wimpy as !@#$.

84 damage is way better.

...Unless 84 damage shuts you down and/or kills you instantly.

It's the same principle that made the 4 PPC Stalker superior to the 6 PPC Stalker in MWO.

Edited by FupDup, 26 January 2016 - 07:14 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

...Unless 84 damage shuts you down and/or kills you instantly.

remember armor wasnt doubled in battletech though. 84 damage would be like taking 168 damage in MWO.

you literally blew other mechs away in one alpha. so it didnt really matter if you shut down lol.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

remember armor wasnt doubled in battletech though. 84 damage would be like taking 168 damage in MWO.

you literally blew other mechs away in one alpha. so it didnt really matter if you shut down lol.

You also blew yourself away too...

And that 84 damage wasn't guaranteed due to dice rolls. Not all of them would hit, and the ones that did hit would spread across multiple body parts.

[Khobai]

Quote

You also blew yourself away too...

how so? you didnt take internal damage from overheating in tabletop? that was an MWO invention.

Quote

And that 84 damage wasn't guaranteed due to dice rolls. Not all of them would hit, and the ones that did hit would spread across multiple body parts.

they pretty much did all hit because clan gunnery skill was whack.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

how so? you didnt take internal damage from overheating in tabletop? that was an MWO invention.

Didn't the pilot take damage at super high heat levels?

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

they pretty much did all hit because clan gunnery skill was whack.

Still spread out all over multiple body parts, and I still doubt that literally all 12 are going to hit most of the time.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 26 January 2016 - 07:19 PM, said:

You also blew yourself away too...

And that 84 damage wasn't guaranteed due to dice rolls. Not all of them would hit, and the ones that did hit would spread across multiple body parts.

Can't you roll a pilot skill check for aimed fire?

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 26 January 2016 - 07:24 PM, said:

Can't you roll a pilot skill check for aimed fire?

I dunno, but I thought that aimed shots required a Targeting Computer to be installed?

[Ultimax]

FupDup, on 26 January 2016 - 02:50 PM, said:

Perhaps a bigger issue would be for Pea Gee Eye to finally get around to helping out the "underdog" Clam mechs, which have been mostly neglected so far...

Nerfing Gauss, CERMLAS and Clan XL nerfed most of those underdogs across the board.

Rolling some of it back would be a plus, and then they do need buffs on top of it.

Edited by Ultimatum X, 26 January 2016 - 07:35 PM.

[Lugin]

FupDup, on 26 January 2016 - 07:23 PM, said:

Didn't the pilot take damage at super high heat levels?

Total Warfare, p160 said:

DAMAGE TO MECHWARRIORS
If life-support systems take a critical hit, the MechWarrior suffers 1 point of damage for every turn that the ’Mech’s internal heat reaches 15 or more. For every turn that the heat rises to or remains higher than 25, the MechWarrior suffers 2 points of damage.

That is, above 50% heat for 1 point of damage per 10 sec, or 2 points when above ~83%, when life support's been hit. Reminder that 6 points of pilot damage equals dead pilot.

Ammo explosions deal 2 damage to the pilot from helmet feedback, and head hits do 1 each time.

And for every point of damage to a pilot, there's a consciousness roll. More damage, harder to stay awake.

FupDup, on 26 January 2016 - 07:25 PM, said:

I dunno, but I thought that aimed shots required a Targeting Computer to be installed?

Partly correct.

Total Warfare, p11 said:

Aimed Shots:
Players may make aimed shots against units that are shut down or whose warrior is unconscious, using any weapons other than missile launchers and LB-X autocannon firing cluster munitions. When firing on an immobile ’Mech, the attacking player can make an aimed shot by naming a target location. Against any hit location except the head, the player makes the to-hit roll using the standard –4 to-hit modifier for firing at an immobile target.

If the attack is successful, the player rolls again. On a result of 6, 7 or 8, his shot hits the designated location. For any other result, the player rolls normally on the ’Mech Hit Location Table. (This roll may still result in the attack striking the desired location.) If the attacker is taking an aimed shot at the target ’Mech’s head, modify the to-hit number by +3 rather than the normal –4. If the shot hits, the player rolls 2D6. On a result of 6, 7 or 8, the shot hits the head. For any other result, roll normally on the ’Mech Hit Location Table.

Players cannot use the Aimed Shots rule to make physical attacks.

Targeting Computer: A warrior can use a targeting computer to make an aimed shot against an active target (see Targeting Computer, p. 143). If using a targeting computer to make an aimed shot against an immobile target, the player adds a –1 modifier (representing the targeting computer) to the –4 immobile target modifier. (All other rules remain the same.)

[Mystere]

Ultimatum X, on 26 January 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

Nerfing Gauss, CERMLAS and Clan XL nerfed most of those underdogs across the board.

Don't forget the Clan-wide effects of the skill tree nerfs.

I guess some people finally got their wish after their decades-long Crusade.

Edited by Mystere, 26 January 2016 - 08:19 PM.

[Mech Jager]

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 07:02 PM, said:

Even if you fire 6 and 6 more 0.5 seconds later you shutdown. The heat capacity isnt high enough to use its stock loadout.

And why on do you feel a stock loadout should be good, because of TT or some other BS. Most stock loadouts are worse than bad to begin with. At least with the Nova you can do some damage compared to other stock load outs.

[Khobai]

Quote

And why on do you feel a stock loadout should be good

I dont recall ever saying it should be good. the nova is one of the worst mechs ever. I said it should just be possible to fire all its lasers without shutting down. Being good is not one of my requirements.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Lupis Volk, on 26 January 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

Or maybe PGI could make it so Clan mechs don't cook. Who ever designed the heating system needs to be placed in a clan mech and it needs to auto alpha strike.

You could... not alpha repeatedly while trying to stare down an IS mech? Maybe... use that clan mobility advantage to reposition and cool down instead?

I find it helps if I play my clan mechs like fencers instead of MMA fighters. Moving in with a quick precise strike outside of the enemy's effective range and then pulling back and coming from another angle that covers where they're likely to move to. I play my IS mechs the exact opposite way, find clan mech, limit their maneuvering options, and then hit them hard and keep swinging at them until they're dead. In short, play to your strengths and not to theirs.

Edited by Narcissistic Martyr, 26 January 2016 - 09:55 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I find it helps if I play my clan mechs like fencers instead of MMA fighters.

IS mechs make way better fencers due to their vastly superior range.

CERLL only has 10% more range than the ISERLL. But for some dumb reason IS mechs get 25% ERLL quirks. WHY?!

It makes absolutely no sense why the IS range quirks give IS more range than the range advantage clans have over IS in the first place.

[Mech Jager]

Khobai, on 26 January 2016 - 09:43 PM, said:

I dont recall ever saying it should be good. the nova is one of the worst mechs ever. I said it should just be possible to fire all its lasers without shutting down. Being good is not one of my requirements.

If it could alpha the damage would be 7damage times 12 erMLAS for an 84pt alpha as a 50ton med mech with 5 jump jets. That would be better than good.

84pt alpha same weapon alpha. There are plenty of reasons this build should not be useable or even fireable once.

The erMLAS is the most flexible weapon in the game and works well at the best range for deciding a game. It also seems like the magic number is 4-5 with another weapon. Even Clan LRM boats have decent direct fire with 4 of these.