47 replies to this topic

[GrimRiver]

The orion IIC and highlander IIC need structure super bad.

The orion is known for it's tankness for a heavy but the orion IIC is anything but that,
the thing mostly dies just from 2 alpha from most other heavies.

I was running my mini atlas build 2x ML, 1x UAC20, 3x SRM6's, 1xLRM15
which runs super duper well on my AS7-S and super well on the IS orion
but not the orion IIC?

Just 10+ on CT and 5+ ST will do, anything at all.

Just because they're battlemechs with clan tech doesn't mean that they don't need help,
if fact the orion IIC and highlander IIC just can not perform on par or even near the ballpark
with the IS versions...unless the IIC got the drop and first few shots on the IS versions and
even then the IIC still might lose.

[Chados]

Riflemen need it too, especially the 3N.

[Chimera_]

Yeah, I like my Orions but they definitely die too quick. The combination of unquirked durability and huge hitboxes is a definite drawback. They can mount really heavy firepower but it's extremely easy to remove the side torsos and neuter them.

[GrimRiver]

Chimera11, on 17 March 2016 - 03:42 PM, said:

Yeah, I like my Orions but they definitely die too quick. The combination of unquirked durability and huge hitboxes is a definite drawback. They can mount really heavy firepower but it's extremely easy to remove the side torsos and neuter them.

Yup, loss of either ST and the firepower is cut by 2/3rds, without structure they can't last long enough to make any notable use of the remaining weapons and die very very shortly after.

Edited by GrimRiver, 17 March 2016 - 03:56 PM.

[WarHippy]

GrimRiver, on 17 March 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

The orion IIC and highlander IIC need structure super bad.

The orion is known for it's tankness for a heavy but the orion IIC is anything but that,
the thing mostly dies just from 2 alpha from most other heavies.

I was running my mini atlas build 2x ML, 1x UAC20, 3x SRM6's, 1xLRM15
which runs super duper well on my AS7-S and super well on the IS orion
but not the orion IIC?

Just 10+ on CT and 5+ ST will do, anything at all.

Just because they're battlemechs with clan tech doesn't mean that they don't need help,
if fact the orion IIC and highlander IIC just can not perform on par or even near the ballpark
with the IS versions...unless the IIC got the drop and first few shots on the IS versions and
even then the IIC still might lose.

The only think I think they need is similar mobility quirks to their IS counterparts. I like that they are a little more fragile while having generally more firepower. They should however have similar movement capabilities.

[Tristan Winter]

What if they just got massive agility quirks instead? I kind of like the overall theme where IS mechs are super durable and Clan mechs have terrifying firepower. Jenner IICs and Hunchback IICs have more firepower than most IS heavies. And that's fine, as long as they are fragile.

I don't really like the idea that both sides should have the same structure quirks, the same XL engine rules, the same weapon ranges, etc.

Enough vanilla. Let's have some flavour in this game.

[Deathlike]

I don't think the Onion IIC... I mean Orion IIC needs the same level of structure bonuses as its non-IIC/IS counterpart, mostly in part with the Clan XL engine. Same could be said for the Highlander IIC and its counterpart.

Both easily inherit all the aspects of the unquirked variety, but Clan XL does help greatly/significantly in adding more firepower capability... so avoiding any sort of offensive/weapon quirks is necessary.

Hoverjets will still be Hoverjets™ on the Highlander.. regardless of IS or Clan. That ultimately still is an abomination.

[Vickinator]

Tristan Winter, on 17 March 2016 - 04:11 PM, said:

What if they just got massive agility quirks instead? I kind of like the overall theme where IS mechs are super durable and Clan mechs have terrifying firepower. Jenner IICs and Hunchback IICs have more firepower than most IS heavies. And that's fine, as long as they are fragile.

I don't really like the idea that both sides should have the same structure quirks, the same XL engine rules, the same weapon ranges, etc.

Enough vanilla. Let's have some flavour in this game.

So balance based on asymmetrical warfare? Yeah that worked out well for the initial release of clan mechs when they first came out. How bout we throw out the lore and balance equally.

[Escef]

GrimRiver, on 17 March 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

The orion IIC and highlander IIC need structure super bad.

I disagree, but if we get them I won't turn them down.

[ExplicitContent]

I would buy into that. Agility instead of structure to counter the fire power. Better than the dust collector it has become

[GrimRiver]

Also to note I'm talking only of the orion IIC and highlander IIC.

I don't think they need agility quirks as they can get that out of an XL engine, which would be the only thing they have over the IS versions and even then it still doesn't help their HUGE blockyness.

Clan weapons really don't help them by much either, only by the fact clan weapons are a bit lighter and have a bit faster fire rate with the UAC2/10/20 and their laser range is nothing to write home about.

Also omni mech can change pods that have quirks made into it, but clan battlemechs can't do anything other then change engine and weapons.

Omnimechs are better in every way to the clan battlemechs, changing the engine is about the only notable thing the clan battlemechs have but even then it doesn't pull their under performing weight.

Edited by GrimRiver, 17 March 2016 - 05:55 PM.

[El Bandito]

Every mech needs to be tanky! Getting blown up by two alphas is unacceptable! Why just the other day, my Thunderbutt-5SS' CT was blown up in three seconds by lasers and Gauss!
Unacceptable, I say! It is a Heavy class mech, with large CT! Surely it deserves some structure love!

Edited by El Bandito, 17 March 2016 - 05:45 PM.

[GrimRiver]

Deathlike, on 17 March 2016 - 04:25 PM, said:

I don't think the Onion IIC... I mean Orion IIC needs the same level of structure bonuses as its non-IIC/IS counterpart, mostly in part with the Clan XL engine. Same could be said for the Highlander IIC and its counterpart.

Both easily inherit all the aspects of the unquirked variety, but Clan XL does help greatly/significantly in adding more firepower capability... so avoiding any sort of offensive/weapon quirks is necessary.

Hoverjets will still be Hoverjets™ on the Highlander.. regardless of IS or Clan. That ultimately still is an abomination.

Yup.
Which is why I said 10+ CT and 5+ ST, it's about half of the IS versions.

I can understand the need for structure for the orion IIC, after all it's based on the mech known as a mini atlas
so it's should be inherently tough and hardy.

The highlander needs it because it's soo darn huge and wide, it's a walking sideways 2 storey building.

[Ace Selin]

I hear the fix for this is to use a Standard engine, which are much more durable (as we IS folk are told we must do). IS are told its a huge bonus to be able to Zombie so now Clan mechs can too - problem solved.

Edited by Ace Selin, 17 March 2016 - 07:01 PM.

[Tristan Winter]

Vickinator, on 17 March 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

So balance based on asymmetrical warfare? Yeah that worked out well for the initial release of clan mechs when they first came out. How bout we throw out the lore and balance equally.

Things improve over time. If PGI were to throw the baby out with the bathwater every time they attempted a particular element of gameplay, we wouldn't have a game now. Balance between different weapon types, balance between weight classes, balance between IS and Clans, etc. Neither of these things have been, or will be, fixed over night. But that doesn't mean PGI should give up all together.

[Parnage Winters]

HGNIIC could use the agility of it's IS cousin. The 325 engine cap kind of limits it's ability to upsize to gain agility at the cost of tonnage.

Course both the HGN and HGNIIC could use real proper jumpjets.

orion IIC is underrated, solid heavy just outshown by most everything else. Couldn't hurt to be tougher but being able to run a 350-360 engine solves most problems.

[Black Ivan]

PGI will never buff the Clan IICs, even if they need it badly. They just don't want to make them good so all people cry OP Clans again. For PGI it is better bad Clans ingame than no Clans at all.

[Widowmaker1981]

Orion desperately needs structure quirks, its agile enough since it can mount a decent sized engine.

Highlander on the other hand desperately needs agility quirks, due to its low engine cap.

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 18 March 2016 - 03:13 AM.

[NextGame]

I'm levelling the Orion IICs at the moment and have to say that they are so utterly woeful in terms of survivability that after a few rounds I just log out and dont play anymore.

am not looking forward to doing the highlander iic

Edited by NextGame, 18 March 2016 - 03:17 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

GrimRiver, on 17 March 2016 - 05:44 PM, said:

...
Omnimechs are better in every way to the clan battlemechs, changing the engine is about the only notable thing the clan battlemechs have but even then it doesn't pull their under performing weight.

Why the generalization? Anything is possible.