35 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Jimmy DiGriz, on 28 January 2016 - 02:03 AM, said:

@KinLuu - There are so many "instant gratification" multiplayer games available that for MWO to thrive it has to offer something else. Maps that offer the game play of Polar Highlands could form part of that offer:
So, it takes five minutes to find the enemy: Great, it allows fast movers to scout, spot the enemy location, report back to the heavy hitters. Skirmishing pilots can flank and harass the enemy. The main group has time to form up - no more slow reacting King Crab getting ganked on spawn (Crimson Strait B2 spawn anyone?). If I want spawn camping headshots I am pretty sure I can find a game out there somewhere.
As I said in my earlier post....VARIETY.

Yeah, that's the funny part.

Players: "We want a map with more role warfare, where scouting and maneuvering is much more important! Get rid of Forest Colony, it's too small for 12 v 12! We want huge maps, now!"
PGI: "Here's Polar Highlands."
Players: "Noooo, it's too big! We have to walk now, it's boring! Give us smaller maps, so we don't have to walk so far! I just want to shoot the baddies, I don't want to go looking for them!"



(I realize it's probably not the same people complaining in both cases, but it's just frustrating to finally get the stuff many of us have been asking for, and some people want to be stuck in 2013 and play Frozen City forever, where scouting takes precisely 20 seconds and then you know exactly where the enemy team is going to be.)

Kjudoon, on 28 January 2016 - 02:04 AM, said:

Here is what I find hilarious.
The biggest complainers are high tier players. On sure the underhive has some but nowhere near the quantity or quality... Or lack therof in the complaints.
And all "solutions" are to essentially turn it into frozen city.

Yeah, it's strange. I understand that people want a metropolis map in addition to what we have, but not ever map needs skyscrapers every 100 meters for people to hide behind. And Frozen City, like most MWO maps, essentially only has 2 obvious paths where your team can move, with a risky middle ground for the brave. Left, right... or maybe middle. Same as Viridian Bog, same as Caustic, same as HPG Manifold, etc.

For once, we have a map where you have 10-20 different paths, depending on which angle you want to attack from, in different areas of the map.

[FlipOver]

Most maps introduced BPH (before Polar Highlands) have required little effort from the players to determine the best places to be, the best locations to secure and it has limited too much the variety of game-play.

Then some maps were redone and people had a hard time to ditch the old habits, so most of the action still takes place on the exact same "hot zones" as the previous maps.

This happens because most people are lazy. They find something that suits them (even if it is from habit) and stick with it, no matter the circumstances. Then, when circumstances change (like having a new, big map, where there is no obvious "key" location to secure or be secure) people, keeping true to their laziness, instead of adapting and thinking outside the previously valid parameters for other maps, they force the need of change to suit them.

I only hope PGI doesn't listen to them.

Polar Highlands is, to me, a stepping stone towards a better MW:O.

I still don't know the map due to the size of it, and that excites me!
I usually play as a brawler (<300 meters) or skirmisher (<600 meters) and have had little problem with LRMs or lack of cover. I've also seen others excel at brawling due to the correct usage of the lower paths.

This map also shows people they have to be prepared for all situations. Not just min-maxing their builds to get the most firepower/speed/heat-management out of them, but now they have to think about actually fitting AMS on their mechs.

No more, rushing towards the enemy in a straight line. Now, people have to take cover wherever it is, even if it means going the long way around to surprise the enemy when they are at <500 meters.

Now all we need is more maps like this and possibly increase the Capture points cap to 1000 (or 1250) to better suit the maps size.

[KinLuu]

Not everyone prefers the same type of gameplay and thus not everyone likes the same maps.

The core issue is, that there is no way for the players to ban certain maps, without affecting other players, who want to play those certain maps.

[Alistair Winter]

FlipOver, on 28 January 2016 - 02:16 AM, said:

Most maps introduced BPH (before Polar Highlands) have required little effort from the players to determine the best places to be, the best locations to secure and it has limited too much the variety of game-play.
Then some maps were redone and people had a hard time to ditch the old habits, so most of the action still takes place on the exact same "hot zones" as the previous maps.
This happens because most people are lazy.

Perhaps, but it's definitely also because people are scared of trying new things in the group queue and because they don't trust their teammates in the solo queue. Conservative tactics are especially common in the solo queue, because unorthodox tactics often create confusion and half the team will refuse to do anything unorthodox, for fear of losing. "You have to take center on Terra Therma or you lose the game, noob." "Oh, we lost the game! See, this is why you always take center on Terra Therma!"

I also like that there are very few clear landmarks on Polar. There's no dropship, no mount doom, no platform, no saddle, no valley of death, no caldera, no citadel, no lower city, etc. This tends to free people's thinking and open up more possibilities, I think. People are less likely to gravitate towards the same familiar spots when there are so few landmarks. As you say, it takes a long time to really get familiar with the map, it's quite disorientating.

[MeiSooHaityu]

I like Polar Highlands, it is a good map.

Funny thing was, when it first came out I was grinding my Cicadas (a mech I didn't want, but after winning the 2A(C) variant, i figured what the hell). All the Cicadas were relatively short range so I tried to avoid Polar, and yet Polar was getting picked. Now I'm almost done grinding them, so I WANT Polar, but now no one is voting it. Go figure.

Anyway, I like the map. It reminds me of trench warfare. Mechs hanging in the low ground trying to snipe or flank. It makes for some interesting play.

[adamts01]

Alistair Winter, on 28 January 2016 - 01:59 AM, said:

I never let people convince me that I should do that anyway. The bases are so far apart, it's not like conquest on most maps, where the fighting takes place at Theta and the light circle the periphery to capture bases. On Polar Highlands, the fighting almost has to happen in several areas, so light mechs should participate in the fighting. They should be supporting their teammates, not running off to cap alone.

I absolutely love the map. With no prominent features, the fight happens somewhere different every time. We need more of what this offers. But conquest.... As a light, it's easier to evade on Polar than any other map, which is why I love the combat on this level. The problem is that if the other team has a good light pilot that has a hard on for standing in squares, it's nearly impossible to kill it, and it's a full time job keeping up in caps. If there isn't a friendly light that's willing to run around and have zero fun all match, then it's gg close. Conquest itself isn't bad, it forces action and camping sucks, it forces teams out of their power position. But this merry-go-round game that some matches turn in to is worse than NASCAR. I understand that some lights either can't shoot so they cap, or they actually like avoiding combat, there's an abundance of hiding in all modes lately. It's alright that they have a level where capping by points is a sound strategy, but I still think the points could be tightened up a little.

[Wild Pegasus]

People are slowly but surely figuring out that Polar doesn't have a set script where you just waddle to square X and play peekaboo every time like with most maps. Assault mode seems to have less NASCARing now that light pilots realize they can actually do respectable damage with hit and run attacks, and even with the conquest points being scattered about strangely I've been noticing more emphasis on actually doing the objective instead of "grab the point near the start then go have the Big Theta Slapfight until that one Jenner steals everything".

It took me a while to like it, but now that more folks are starting to try different things it's gotten a lot more interesting. Heck, just having the room to actually move around when sniping and being able to harrass stragglers without getting nuked by a skyline of laserbarf is enough for me.

[Torgun]

OP recently posted about farming CBills with LRMs and now post about liking Polar. What a coincidence?

[Kjudoon]

I can predict this.... Any metropolis map will be hated viscerally by those campaigning hardest for it. Most... And I do mean most do not realize that if they hated their path being blocked beforewhen they try to back up... Or the friendly fire when people run across intersections... It will be a horror show that will make them truly appreciate Polar Highlands.

And yes low map voting. All that does is grow resentment as players troll one another. Plus lose the message de voting it is crap and irrelevant.

[Alistair Winter]

Torgun, on 28 January 2016 - 03:01 AM, said:

OP recently posted about farming CBills with LRMs and now post about liking Polar. What a coincidence?

Instead of assuming the worst about people you don't know, and making silly allegations in third-person, you could try to actually inquire about their real motivation and have a proper, intelligent conversation with them to learn what they're actually thinking. Maybe you'll find out that your quick and easy assumption was in fact false. Maybe you can have a proper interaction with them and learn to see things from a new perspective.

I've played more matches on Polar Highlands with my Ravens than my Awesome, really. Of the 30 matches whose stats I provided in the other thread, only a tiny minority were Polar Highlands, because I played a variety of different mechs the past weekend while the event was going on. Now that the event is over and I'm playing my Awesomes (among other mechs), it's almost impossible to get a match in Polar Highlands.

I'm afraid you missed the point entirely.

[Ratpoison]

Alistair Winter, on 28 January 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

Instead of assuming the worst about people you don't know, and making silly allegations in third-person, you could try to actually inquire about their real motivation and have a proper, intelligent conversation with them to learn what they're actually thinking. Maybe you'll find out that your quick and easy assumption was in fact false. Maybe you can have a proper interaction with them and learn to see things from a new perspective.

I've played more matches on Polar Highlands with my Ravens than my Awesome, really. Of the 30 matches whose stats I provided in the other thread, only a tiny minority were Polar Highlands, because I played a variety of different mechs the past weekend while the event was going on. Now that the event is over and I'm playing my Awesomes (among other mechs), it's almost impossible to get a match in Polar Highlands.

I'm afraid you missed the point entirely.

I think it's mostly just because it was so overpicked for a while after release. It should steady off in a few weeks, it's too good of a map for people to not ever choose.

[Torgun]

Alistair Winter, on 28 January 2016 - 03:26 AM, said:

Instead of assuming the worst about people you don't know, and making silly allegations in third-person, you could try to actually inquire about their real motivation and have a proper, intelligent conversation with them to learn what they're actually thinking. Maybe you'll find out that your quick and easy assumption was in fact false. Maybe you can have a proper interaction with them and learn to see things from a new perspective.

I've played more matches on Polar Highlands with my Ravens than my Awesome, really. Of the 30 matches whose stats I provided in the other thread, only a tiny minority were Polar Highlands, because I played a variety of different mechs the past weekend while the event was going on. Now that the event is over and I'm playing my Awesomes (among other mechs), it's almost impossible to get a match in Polar Highlands.

I'm afraid you missed the point entirely.

But you still do know what I'm referring to. In the end Polar is still too LRM friendly, just as any map would be with too little cover or too low cover. Old Caustic used to have this problem, and Polar currently has this problem. It's hardly surprising people stopped wanting to play that map.

[KHETTI]

Soooo Alistair Winter, Callsign Ghostbuster!, got it!.
BTW i love the fact that polar kinda reminds you of home, also, 105mm? those must be Leo 1s?.

[Anunknownlurker]

Why are people so worried about LRMs? I am FAR more scared of dual gauss and ERLLs on more open maps, LRMs can be mitigated - ECM, AMS, cover; I mean you even get a bloody warning when someone fires them at you! - first thing you know about a dual gauss or laser vomit is when your face melts!

Also, there are only a few "LRM friendly" maps in the cycle, we should be able to live with that.

[XX Sulla XX]

Please less maps like Polar Highlands.

[Alistair Winter]

KHETTI, on 28 January 2016 - 03:55 AM, said:

Soooo Alistair Winter, Callsign Ghostbuster!, got it!.
BTW i love the fact that polar kinda reminds you of home, also, 105mm? those must be Leo 1s?.

You know your tanks, sir!



Sadly, Leo 2's were not standard in the Norwegian army while I was in. It would have been fun to ride those. On the other hand, the Leo 1 had some perks that the Leo 2 doesn't, as far as I know. For one thing, the Leo 1 had enough room on the hull for us to pitch a tent on top of the tank. We never actually slept on the cold ground, we slept on the warm steel hull of our tank. I remember one exercise in particular, when we only had time for 3-4 hours of sleep. It often takes 30 minutes to raise the tent properly, so instead of going through that whole procedure, we just lay down on the steaming hot hull of the tank, in our sleeping bags, using the tent as a blanket. It was about -20 degrees celsius (-4 fahrenheit) outside, but we could still sleep under the open sky, under the stars, thanks to the warmth of the hull. I believe the Leo 2 crews have to camp on the ground, which is something I don't envy when you're in the Norwegian army.

Of course, it wasn't always fun and games. One time we pitched our tent in a frozen valley and it was -42 degrees celsius (-44 degrees fahrenheit) at night. We all woke freezing our asses off, putting our naked feet on each other's chests and under each other's armpits to get some blood circulation going. But when I got back in my tank with the others, our heater malfunctioned. So we drove around in that frozen valley without a heater. I kid you not, it was -28 degrees celsius inside our tank! Not a fun experience, since you can't really move very much inside those tanks to keep yourself warm.