163 replies to this topic

[Helsbane]

If you're unable to spot a UAV due to a particularly bright sky behind it (white out clouds, sun rays, etc.) switch over to thermal mode. An airborne UAV is easily spotted by a simple adjustment of vision mode.

Polar is a decent map overall, it just forces you to fight differently that the other maps with taller cover. Take a radar derp module, stay low and close on the lurm boats. Get up close and kick their teeth in.

Always watch for fast moving spotters in your backfield. Check the path of any stray TAG beams to see if they're from a member of your team or not.

Always watch the position indicators of your team to see if any of them have been NARCed. Call it out over in game comms and watch for fast movers marking targets. As soon as you see someone get NARCed, find some cover to snuggle up against for cover if you do get NARCed.

Have your fast movers go harass the enemy lurm units. Wait until they're occupied and push them, leading with arty strikes (be sure to announce your arty drop to give your fast movers time to get clear).

Lurm boats are easy to deal with, but you have to be smart and aggressive.

[Parnage Winters]

Someday people are going to learn how to easy it is to avoid LRMS. Today is not that day.

As always, git gud. LRM's are okay at best, and terrible in reality.

Thou if you still find them super evil op too easy. Try them yourself. Boat all the lrms, be that guy.


And remember, Archer is coming Mechwarriors, best find cover.

[Revis Volek]

cSand, on 27 January 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

lol, as if you've never been caught with your pants down and LRM'd to death.

Its been ages for me....Even the other night with 3 crit components and eventually on one leg. The LRM boat never got the kill...

Farming dmg, sure. KIlling stuff, LRMS are not so good.

[MysticLink]

It's not easy avoiding lrms in my opinion. Good people at tier 1 and tier 2 know how to make that **** work. What is easy is moving/flanking into an lrm heavy army where lrms are not where as useful as pin point damage. If you don't move and just get lrmed to death, you blame yourself. You can tell your team to move on speakers or write it up in chat.

[pyrocomp]

Mystere, on 28 January 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

Think about this. Should all other weapons' effectiveness also be tier dependent? Why specifically single-out LRMs?

For now it's the only one you can't aim. Effectiveness of all other weapons is encreasing with tier, isn't it? and tier dependence was referenced to the tier of a pilot using LRM, not the on it was used against. But anyway, below was a better suggestion.

[Triordinant]

Gamebreaking LRMs? You'd have to travel back in time in a DeLorean for that. Speaking of which...

http://www.businessi...eres-why-2016-1

[Kjudoon]

pyrocomp, on 28 January 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:

For now it's the only one you can't aim. Effectiveness of all other weapons is encreasing with tier, isn't it? and tier dependence was referenced to the tier of a pilot using LRM, not the on it was used against. But anyway, below was a better suggestion.

Really? "Can't aim"?

I don't know about you but just because a locked sensor target is bigger does not mean it's not something you "can't aim". No. So let's clear that falsehood up too.

- LRMs must be aimed on a sensor target that is bigger than it's actual mech.
- Not only must it be aimed at the larger target, it must be maintained on target for an unknown length of time unlike all other weapons which are instant fire and forget.
- LRMs must then maintain their aiming on target as solidly as possible from time of attempted lock to time of impact or risk missing the target.

Now... Other factors.

-LRMs have the ability to look off target for a very brief window of time, but lock must be reaquired during flight time or the weapon misses.
- No other weapon in the game has to hold it's lock for up to 5 seconds from launch to impact with an additional period of up to 30 seconds to aquire lock.
- In that time, you cannot safely focus on any other target till the lock is lost or all your work is lost.
- LRMs are the only weapon in the game that does not follow LOS, but is indirect fire which means you have to compute whether or not your flightpath is clear or you end up spraying missile confetti on a nearby obstruction or hit cover long before you hit target.

No, LRMs are not "no aim" weapons. Let's stop that lie too.

They are not a twitchy weapon because of their mechanics, and they are one for patient and calculating players. They are overly nerfed because less... sure I'll use the term... intelligent players... or those too addicted to a typical FPS gameplay find boring or confusing or too difficult to deal with or not instant enough gratification and therefore should be removed from the game. This is very similar to torpedo haters in World of Warships who can't stand such a slow, often invisible weapon if they do not pay attention to their sonar warnings till you start hearing the pings.

I've suggested if you want to add twitch to LRMs, fine. Lose the sensor targetting, Radar Deprivation (now useless) and ecm (now useless). Allow LRMs to fire and forget on the target clicked on just like any other DF weapon. The launcher can then turn away and do other stuff as the targeting is then handled automatically by the computer. No re-aquisition, if the target manages to lose LOS from the missile's viewpoint (gonna be hard) they miss. Otherwise, you're going to get a much tighter spread hitting on the mech component that was where the crosshairs were on click. Yes, that means you can headshot with LRMs. But that adds twitch into the game and forces LOS... but you're going to hate it because the damage is just going to be delayed and nobody's warning you it's coming in and no magic box to stop it.

There's your twitchy solution, and I'm certain the LRMHatorz would scream foul that way too.

[InspectorG]

Nick86, on 28 January 2016 - 12:15 PM, said:

To be fair Polar Highlands gives a lot of chances to break LOS. If you can't do this you're either useless or being spotted in which case, working as intended.

'problem map' as in nubs are gonna walk in the open easier than on other maps with big terrain that breaks LOS incidentally.

But yeah, move in the crevices, ez pz.

[pyrocomp]

Kjudoon, on 28 January 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

Really? "Can't aim"?

I don't know about you but just because a locked sensor target is bigger does not mean it's not something you "can't aim". No. So let's clear that falsehood up too.

- LRMs must be aimed on a sensor target that is bigger than it's actual mech.
- Not only must it be aimed at the larger target, it must be maintained on target for an unknown length of time unlike all other weapons which are instant fire and forget.
- LRMs must then maintain their aiming on target as solidly as possible from time of attempted lock to time of impact or risk missing the target.

Now... Other factors.

-LRMs have the ability to look off target for a very brief window of time, but lock must be reaquired during flight time or the weapon misses.
- No other weapon in the game has to hold it's lock for up to 5 seconds from launch to impact with an additional period of up to 30 seconds to aquire lock.
- In that time, you cannot safely focus on any other target till the lock is lost or all your work is lost.
- LRMs are the only weapon in the game that does not follow LOS, but is indirect fire which means you have to compute whether or not your flightpath is clear or you end up spraying missile confetti on a nearby obstruction or hit cover long before you hit target.

No, LRMs are not "no aim" weapons. Let's stop that lie too.

They are not a twitchy weapon because of their mechanics, and they are one for patient and calculating players. They are overly nerfed because less... sure I'll use the term... intelligent players... or those too addicted to a typical FPS gameplay find boring or confusing or too difficult to deal with or not instant enough gratification and therefore should be removed from the game. This is very similar to torpedo haters in World of Warships who can't stand such a slow, often invisible weapon if they do not pay attention to their sonar warnings till you start hearing the pings.

I've suggested if you want to add twitch to LRMs, fine. Lose the sensor targetting, Radar Deprivation (now useless) and ecm (now useless). Allow LRMs to fire and forget on the target clicked on just like any other DF weapon. The launcher can then turn away and do other stuff as the targeting is then handled automatically by the computer. No re-aquisition, if the target manages to lose LOS from the missile's viewpoint (gonna be hard) they miss. Otherwise, you're going to get a much tighter spread hitting on the mech component that was where the crosshairs were on click. Yes, that means you can headshot with LRMs. But that adds twitch into the game and forces LOS... but you're going to hate it because the damage is just going to be delayed and nobody's warning you it's coming in and no magic box to stop it.

There's your twitchy solution, and I'm certain the LRMHatorz would scream foul that way too.

You haven't read the initial post as I proposed, have you? Ok, here is the part for you to read now. Find the 'need the twitch mechanics' statement.

pyrocomp, on 28 January 2016 - 04:53 AM, said:

Or, if The Skill omniargument is important, then make the spread depend on the precision of aming. E.g. some seconds to get a lock (red rings) and then the closer you keep a reticle to the center of the mech the lower spread is (display as tightening of abovementioned rings). Then there will be less sense in preferring LRM5s over larger racks if weight allows. Artemis can be left as is or reworked to be the system that allows this mechanincs.

And to clear some things out.
First, there are many loopholes in the lock mechanics. Like the lock cannot be lost during shutdown. Yes, if you fire a volley and overheat then the lock is not lost. All fired LRMs will go onto target, even if it was with RadarDerp and broke LoS and you will, when powering up again, have the solid lock with the 'off-target' timer set to 0. This is a problem with the lock code, rarely abused, but it exists. So the statement that LRMs absolutely need the aiming into some general direction of the targeted mech is not valid.

Another thing is that you do not need lock to hit the target. LRMs flightpath is complex and has some levelling in its end. So if the lock is lost, but the target is slow or is just backtracking from you it will still get some from the volley. At some locations with some prediction on where the enemy mech is moving you can use LRMs without lock altogher targeting ground infront of your target. Ineffective but some times usefull. And roduces no warning. Sometimes it is useful to shoot a stationary target without lock to assure that there will be no warning.

And the last point. The 'can't aim' part was for the simple thing. You can't aim LRMs on cored leg or arm or ST, just on the general mech. You cannot control flightpath. You can do nothing but maintain lock (not difficult). But the exact proposal was not in adding twich mechanics (LRMs firing as SRMs were proposed not a single time and this way it is definately non-twitching) but in adding more reason to aim to achieve a less spread. At some point after one of the patches due to a code error the LRMs required precise aiming to aquire and keep the lock. People claimed it was fun and asked to keep it that way. Haven't tried it that time but do believe it was interesting.

So, pls, read what was proposed (and there were many other proposals to add LRMs, ACs, PPC and etc more flavour via different mechanics), ask if unsure that you understood correctly and use less lables (LRMHatorz, jeez, I'll keep that in mind).

[Pjwned]

If you're a bad baddie badderson scrublord then start bringing AMS and stick next to other people with AMS.

Problem solved.

[cazidin]

"Equips flame shield." "LRMs are in a decent place. Maybe a bit tighter spread and more velocity and they'll finally be considered good weapons."

[Kjudoon]

Pyrocomp I did not read any other post you made because of MEGO. Mine eyes glazeth over syndrome. I was addressing the commonly held fantasy that lrms are no skill op garbage. A stellar example of Orwellian doublethink if I never saw iit.

[Bushmaster0]

Kjudoon, on 28 January 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

Pyrocomp I did not read any other post you made because of MEGO. Mine eyes glazeth over syndrome. I was addressing the commonly held fantasy that lrms are no skill op garbage. A stellar example of Orwellian doublethink if I never saw iit.

oops, wrong post

Kjudoon, on 28 January 2016 - 05:48 PM, said:

Pyrocomp I did not read any other post you made because of MEGO. Mine eyes glazeth over syndrome. I was addressing the commonly held fantasy that lrms are no skill op garbage. A stellar example of Orwellian doublethink if I never saw iit.

this is the post I wanted to quote



LRMs...easy to use, difficult to use well

Edited by Bushmaster0, 28 January 2016 - 06:34 PM.

[Cabusha]

Drop a heatsink and bring AMS. But, oh, wait, my try hard laser vomit mech, I'm not gonna give up a heatsinks EVER!!!

LRMs already have plenty of counters. Use them and stop whining for nerfs.

(I don't generally use LRMs, not my play style, but know plenty of people who do.)

[SQW]

Face palm. Another one.

I'm in Tier 5 and even I don't worry about LRM in Polar. The number of time I die to LRM rain is like 1/10 of my total death and even then, that's because my team's already over run.

You don't blame bullets for being OP in COD or Battlefield if you walk out in the open right? AMS, ECM, cover (and by god does Polar have covers galore) and breaking LOS are all...

I can't finish. This OP's too far gone. Next!

[Lightfoot]

LRMs are terribly weak. PGI created this balance where players have to boat them to have any effect. If they were more powerful most LRM users would have them as back-up weapons and not primary LRM boats and you would actually see less of them as in the past. It's when LRMs are so weak that they become the only thing the mech can attack with that you see mechs using only LRMs or not carrying any.

Make LRMs stronger. Make Artemis LRMs ground-hugging as described in Battle Tech since they are using a Line of Sight targeting system.

[Araevin Teshurr]

LRMS are a challenge for sure, they had been in the passed, were nerfed, then clans came into the game and got 0 minimum range, really making them tough to defeat.

With the reduction of ECM coverage, LRMS are back in favor, but you won't see them in higher tier matches as previously stated, because ammo runs out, and lasers have much more damage potential.

Remove laser vomit? Why? The innersphere was loaded with laser vomit mechs long before the clans came. Lasers are the way!

[Fais]

I notice that at different times of the day when I play I see heavier LRM's then others times. I must say 3 or 4 lrm heavy mechs, and a decent team. Against a team that is too spread out. Is a slaughter. But isnt that a slaughter normally anyways.

[Kjudoon]

Lol... Now that's a scary thought. Make Artemis lrms ground hugging. Sure as long as they avoid obstacles and follow terrain even if the target ducks behind cover. I almost picture the pursuit cam from Evil Dead. That'd be hilarious to see them whipping through cover to hit targets and weaving around buildings and over hills like that.

[SkaerKrow]

LRMs aren't broken, but they're frustrating for people because a LRM-boat can rain damage down on you while you have no opportunity to hit them back. It's the same reason that people rage at artillery in World of Tanks and snipers in Call of Duty. They're not broken, they're just really freaking annoying.