28 replies to this topic

[stealthraccoon]

Prior to the realization that the unseen would never be seen again, I argued for the Hornet (HNT-171) so we could have a jumpy 20 ton mech that didn't mimic the Locust (like our dearly lost Flea). Now that we can have unseen mechs, it's time we move away from the bloated heavy queue and get down to scrappy light business.

I see no reason why the Wasp should not be included. It is a 20 ton humanoid mech with jump capability, and a lower engine cap (120 base) than Locust. You have more than enough era appropriate models that offer a wide range of loadouts (energy/missile, all energy, all missile, energy/ballistic) not to mention a model specifically for the Wolf's Dragoons (think: flying Locust 1E).

My worry is that it will have horrendously broken hit boxes, or that I will be unable to not strap 6 jump jets on the poor thing and I will be constantly shattering my little bug legs trying to successfully death-from-above Atlas pilots.

My wallet is out - make this happen.

[Bespoke Cheese Cake]

An interesting topic, but you should really have posted this in feature suggestions.

[3xnihilo]

stealthraccoon, on 27 January 2016 - 06:23 PM, said:

Prior to the realization that the unseen would never be seen again, I argued for the Hornet (HNT-171) so we could have a jumpy 20 ton mech that didn't mimic the Locust (like our dearly lost Flea). Now that we can have unseen mechs, it's time we move away from the bloated heavy queue and get down to scrappy light business.

I see no reason why the Wasp should not be included. It is a 20 ton humanoid mech with jump capability, and a lower engine cap (120 base) than Locust. You have more than enough era appropriate models that offer a wide range of loadouts (energy/missile, all energy, all missile, energy/ballistic) not to mention a model specifically for the Wolf's Dragoons (think: flying Locust 1E).

My worry is that it will have horrendously broken hit boxes, or that I will be unable to not strap 6 jump jets on the poor thing and I will be constantly shattering my little bug legs trying to successfully death-from-above Atlas pilots.

My wallet is out - make this happen.

I am 3xnihilo and I approve this message!

[The Mecha Streisand]

Wasp, Stinger, and Phoenix Hawk. YESH PREAZHE!

[Ukos]

Phoenix Hawk please for definite (and a phoenix IIc lol )

[Dagada Moor]

I would love a wasp.

[TAKTCOM]

The Mecha Streisand, on 30 January 2016 - 04:00 PM, said:

Wasp, Stinger, and Phoenix Hawk. YESH PREAZHE!

Was realy surprised lack Wasp, Stinger, and Phoenix Hawk in the game.

Edited by TAKTCOM, 06 February 2016 - 09:04 AM.

[Thor Sten]

We can NEVER have enough light mechs, but I'm not sure if this would work. From my tabletop-memories, the Locust was the "tankiest" mech in the classic 20 ton range. The only saving grace of Wasp was that it was harder to hit a jumping mech, which is not exacty the same in MWO. Also in MWO the Locust mostly survives by speed, even if fully armored, can the Wasp surive with 120 at all?

How could they make the slower Wasp even stand a chance? Perhaps by making it really really tiny!?

Edited by Thor Sten, 07 February 2016 - 05:48 AM.

[epikt]

If they made the Urbie viable I'm sure they can make the Wasp viable too. I don't think viability is the right thing to look at, but instead wonder "would this mech add something to the game?". We don't have a JJ capable 20 toner, that's enough for me. But for the same reason I don't think it would be interesting to release both the Wasp and the Stinger, they are very similar and would be redundant.

So, yep, Wasp please, give light pilots some love.

[TercieI]

epikt, on 07 February 2016 - 02:07 PM, said:

If they made the Urbie viable I'm sure they can make the Wasp viable too. I don't think viability is the right thing to look at, but instead wonder "would this mech add something to the game?". We don't have a JJ capable 20 toner, that's enough for me. But for the same reason I don't think it would be interesting to release both the Wasp and the Stinger, they are very similar and would be redundant.

So, yep, Wasp please, give light pilots some love.

Hear, hear. My hope is actually that they'll do a 2-pack of the Wasp and Stinger, though, priced like one of the heavies. It'd be a nice way of saying "we know these aren't great, but we also know they have fans." I would buy the max pack for sure.

Edited by TercieI, 07 February 2016 - 03:43 PM.

[Marauder3D]

TercieI, on 07 February 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

Hear, hear. My hope is actually that they'll do a 2-pack of the Wasp and Stinger, though, priced like one of the heavies. It'd be a nice way of saying "we know these aren't great, but we also know they have fans." I would buy the max pack for sure.

I'd pull out my wallet in a heartbeat. Price it like the Rifleman/Marauder/Warhammer pack. Give us both mechs and maybe one hero. I'd put down $55 and be damn glad to do it.

[Tarogato]

I took a brief look at the hardpoints on the Stinger and thought, "... urgghhh."

But the Wasp I can get behind... this would be a great little 20-tonner:

Edited by Tarogato, 07 February 2016 - 04:01 PM.

[epikt]

TercieI, on 07 February 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

Hear, hear. My hope is actually that they'll do a 2-pack of the Wasp and Stinger, though, priced like one of the heavies. It'd be a nice way of saying "we know these aren't great, but we also know they have fans." I would buy the max pack for sure.

Oh. Never though of this, but I like it.

[TercieI]

Tarogato, on 07 February 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

I took a brief look at the hardpoints on the Stinger and thought, "... urgghhh."

You're not wrong, Taro, but it'sliterally the only mech I have TT nostalgia for (I was a Car Wars guy, really).

[stealthraccoon]

I'm a little on the fence about how many hardpoints this thing should be packing. I think 4 would be fair, mostly because the torso weapons are on the sides*, and not limited in size like the Commando's CT mounted ones. The small humanoid designs have proven to be indestructible (Cheetah, Spider, Firestarter) so limiting the number of weapons could help balance while not making larger mechs irrelevant. The engine cap would be 170(?) so slower than Locust but the jump jets should be super efficient on such a small mech.

*assuming we don't get missiles in the legs

Edited by stealthraccoon, 09 February 2016 - 11:55 AM.

[jss78]

Tarogato, on 07 February 2016 - 04:01 PM, said:

I took a brief look at the hardpoints on the Stinger and thought, "... urgghhh."

But the Wasp I can get behind... this would be a great little 20-tonner:

Are you sure they'll be going that fast? No idea if there's some regular formula for estimating where the engine cap will be, so just asking.

I don't think think they'll ever be "viable" as the meta boys say, being essentially a slower but jumping Locust, with an upright and easier-to-hit posture and lower hardpoints. But a 150 km/h 20-tonner humanoid with great jumping ability and 4+ well-quirked ML does sound super fun to play. I'd probably buy them.

[Tarogato]

jss78, on 09 February 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

Are you sure they'll be going that fast? No idea if there's some regular formula for estimating where the engine cap will be, so just asking.

I did the Speed Tweak'd value when it as 10%. Today it is 7.5%.

The Locust, Flea, Wasp, and Stinger, according to the engine formula should all have maximum 170-rated engine in MWO. However, PGI broke their own formula and gave the Locust a 190 instead. So yes, it's possible that any of the 20-tonners could have between a 170 and 190 max engine. (in particular, the Flea variant that equips MASC can have as much as a 180 engine while still not exceeding the tolerances for hitreg - it would go about 172kph).

[Sereglach]

Personally, I think both the Wasp and Stinger would have good options to provide for MWO. Pulling from some older theory-crafting posts, here's what I had guestimated these mechs would look like in MWO:

WASP - 20 tons

Spoiler

WASP common traits: Max Engine 190, RT- 1 AMS
WSP-1A: RA- 2 Energy, LT- 2 Missile, Max JJ- 10
WSP-1K: RA- 2 Energy, LT- 3 Ballistic, Max JJ- 8
WSP-1S: RA- 1 Energy, RT- 2 Energy, LT- 1 Energy and ECM, Max JJ- 6
Bonus
WSP-1W: RA- 2 Energy, RT- 2 Energy, LT- 2 Energy, Max JJ- 8

STINGER - 20 tons

Spoiler

STINGER common traits: Max Engine 190, LT- 1 AMS
STG-3R: RA- 2 Energy and 2 Ballistic, LA- 2 Ballistic, Max JJ- 6
STG-3G: RA- 3 Energy, LA- 3 Energy, Max JJ- 8
STG-5M: RA- 2 Energy and 1 AMS, LA- 2 Energy, Max JJ- 8
Bonus
STG-3Gb: RA- 1 Energy, LA- 1 Energy, CT- 2 Energy, HD- 1 Energy, Max JJ- 7

I had most of the Classics covered in those posts, and so far I've been really close (if not spot on) for most of the variants -and their associated hardpoints- of the Marauder, Warhammer, Rifleman, and Archer.

Given our current trends on receiving classics, I have absolutely no doubt in my mind that we'll eventually receive both of these chassis. Russ has been quoted on twitter stating that they have a couple more one-off mech packs to announce (that was pre Archer and Kodiak, so I don't know how many more there are coming; and I haven't noticed any more recent twitter remarks on the matter). Then after those -as long as the metrics continue to confirm it- they're going to go back to the 4-mech tiered packs.

At this point, given the current announced packs, I am inclined to believe there'll be a "Classics" or "Phoenix II" pack that'll be Wasp/Stinger/Valkyrie, Phoenix Hawk, Crusader, and Longbow. Then they'll probably have whichever two aren't in the main pack of the Wasp, Stinger, or Valkyrie as reinforcements. Either that, or the two lights not part of the planned 4-tier pack will be the remaining one-off releases. That way it paves the way to have a very easily put together typical 4 mech pack.

Even the Valkyrie has some reasonable potential as another light (even if the stock versions are somewhat bland) with builds akin to this:

VALKYRIE - 30 tons

Spoiler

VALKYRIE common traits: Max Engine 285, RT- 1 AMS
VLK-QA: RA- 2 Energy, LT 3 Missile, Max JJ- 6
VLK-QF: RA- 2 Energy, LT 2 Missile and 1 AMS, Max JJ- 8
VLK-QD: RA- 3 Energy, LT 2 Missile, Max JJ- 6
Bonus
VLK-QP: RA- 1 Energy, RT- 1 Missile, LT- 1 Missile, LA- 1 Energy
*Note - QP variant is made up variant due to lack of viable variants in time-line.

EDIT: Oh, and since I originally forgot to mention it in all of my above ramblings . . . I really want the Wasp in MWO. I think it'll be an awesome addition and I do love my light mechs.

Edited by Sereglach, 09 February 2016 - 11:11 PM.

[stuh42l]

Thor Sten, on 07 February 2016 - 04:25 AM, said:

We can NEVER have enough light mechs, but I'm not sure if this would work. From my tabletop-memories, the Locust was the "tankiest" mech in the classic 20 ton range. The only saving grace of Wasp was that it was harder to hit a jumping mech, which is not exacty the same in MWO. Also in MWO the Locust mostly survives by speed, even if fully armored, can the Wasp surive with 120 at all?

How could they make the slower Wasp even stand a chance? Perhaps by making it really really tiny!?

Due to the fact that 7 hexes moved was the magic cut off for another +1 mod to hit and that the locust could do that while walking is what made it so damned good.

[MadHornet]

Doesn't the wasp equip an SRM-2 in the left leg? That might be a new frontier. How would that work?