29 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings Mechwarriors. With another roadmap and patch on the way I thought I'd ask everyone what they think PGI will do to make the CC, high level TC and MASC worth the tonnage? Maybe significantly increase their benefits? An extra module slot with the CC? A muffin button?

[Wintersdark]

Stat buff.

Nothing is happening with the CC right now, only TC and MASC, they have different plans for the CC coming later.

They don't want to just stay buff the CC, they want to make it more unique. This all from Russ' twitter.

[cazidin]

I think a muffin button would be a unique feature.

[Y E O N N E]

Wintersdark, on 28 January 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

Stat buff.

Nothing is happening with the CC right now, only TC and MASC, they have different plans for the CC coming later.

They don't want to just stay buff the CC, they want to make it more unique. This all from Russ' twitter.

I still like the idea of tying certain quirks to the TCs, like beam duration. They already do range, after all.

That said, I don't want TCs to basically become all but mandatory.

[Wintersdark]

Be nice for the Mk2+ to be worthwhile. The disparity between Mk1 and the rest is staggering.

Really, if you invest 7t and 7s in a piece of equipment it should be damn good.

[Alistair Winter]

Wintersdark, on 29 January 2016 - 10:23 AM, said:

Be nice for the Mk2+ to be worthwhile. The disparity between Mk1 and the rest is staggering.

Really, if you invest 7t and 7s in a piece of equipment it should be damn good.

I'd like to see pretty much all equipment in MWO buffed, with a few exceptions. Seems to me like most people are just squeezing in engine, weapons and heatsinks / ammo, with only a minimum of other stuff. Minimum number of jump jets, rarely equipping AMS, never equipping CASE, rarely equipping BAP... targeting computers, command console, MASC...

It would be nice of the equipment was so powerful that you actually felt it was worthwhile to sacrifice 5-10 tons of weapons / heatsinks to get all the relevant equipment for your designated role.

[FupDup]

For the TC I would like to see their stats get simplified...right now it's mostly a whole bunch of sensor buffs that make it very convoluted. Since the "lore" purpose of the TC was to increase accuracy, I think that TC's should only improve velocity and beam duration, with all other random buffs removed.

As a bonus, I think that even LB-X should be able to benefit from this because the TT reason for making TC's not work with LB-X doesn't apply in MWO. In TT, being able to make an aimed shot with a full cluster of LB-X would result in a huge number of crit chances in a single hit location, which would cause mechs to die from crits much more quickly. That obviously can't happen in MWO, so that holdover doesn't help the game. As another example of the same idea, MWO lets pulse lasers benefit from TC even though in TT you also couldn't make aimed shots with them because of the ridiculous stacked to-hit modifier.

I know not to expect that to happen, though. They'll just get their existing stats nudged up a bit, which is okay I guess but leaves the item still quite wonky.

Edited by FupDup, 29 January 2016 - 10:30 AM.

[Khobai]

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For the TC I would like to see their stats get simplified...right now it's mostly a whole bunch of sensor buffs that make it very convoluted. Since the "lore" purpose of the TC was to increase accuracy, I think that TC's should only improve velocity and beam duration, with all other random buffs removed.

I disagree. It makes perfect sense for the TC to increase zoom magnification and detailed target into speed. Since the whole purpose of the targeting computer is to help the pilot target specific locations on mechs.

What doesnt make sense is the targeting computer making ballistics move faster (or your suggestion of reducing beam duration time). It makes absolutely no sense for the targeting computer to magically alter physical laws. Thats what makes it convoluted.

LOL MY MAGIC COMPUTER MAKES BULLETS GO FASTER. WUT??! LOLOl

Edited by Khobai, 29 January 2016 - 10:40 AM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 29 January 2016 - 10:32 AM, said:

I disagree. It makes perfect sense for the TC to increase detailed target into speed. Since the whole purpose of the targeting computer was to target specific locations.

What doesnt make sense is the targeting computer making ballistics move faster or altering beam duration time. It makes absolutely no sense for the targeting computer to magically alter physical laws. Thats what makes it convoluted.

It's an indirect approach to mimic the effect that it had in TT. When firing normally you would get a -1 to-hit modifier on most direct-fire weapons, thereby making them more likely to hit. Since MWO doesn't use to-hit modifiers, PGI used other mechanics instead.

Higher velocity increases the chances of hitting the target, which has the same outcome as the TT item even if it's accomplished in a fairly strange way. Beam duration reduction improves precision more than accuracy, but there's not much that can be done about that since hitscan by default has extremely high accuracy (but less precision).

It's a matter of working with the mechanics that we have in the present game, basically.

[Khobai]

Its stupid is what it is.

PGI took a convoluted lazy approach to the targeting computer and made it magically increase weapons speeds.

There are countless better ways the targeting computer could work, they just didnt wanna spend time coding it.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

MASC needs to provide more benefit while engaged than an equivalent tonnage of extra engine.

I mean honestly, does anyone mount the Masc on the wolverine loyalty variant? No... not really.

Now, if I could drop the engine to a STD225 and have the speed from a STD275 when I'm using MASC... I might consider it. But as is... not so much.

[Khobai]

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MASC needs to provide more benefit while engaged than an equivalent tonnage of extra engine.

It does. You get a HUGE acceleration bonus. thats arguably the best bonus of MASC.

But MASC should not make your reticle shake. At least reticle shake while jumpjetting has some basis in battletech, since jumpjetting significantly decreases weapon accuracy. But MASC doesnt decrease accuracy in battletech and shouldnt in MWO either.

MASC reticle shake needs to be completely removed.

MASC duration also needs to be increased to at least 10 seconds. Because 1 turn in battletech is 10 seconds and MASC can be engaged at least 10 seconds in battletech without causing leg damage.

Edited by Khobai, 29 January 2016 - 11:00 AM.

[Boris The Spider]

Want to make the other targeting computers worthwhile? Just add the 5 tonne rule to it.

Want to run 4x CUAC5 Your going to need a Class 6 TC. After your build is saved, game counts up your weapon tonnage, divides it by 5, rounds it up, and if your TC level is lower than that number it disables it and puts a [ /!\ Requires Class X Targeting Computer ] warning on the 'mech like it does for ghost heat. Course in a ideal world you would be able to checkbox on the UI which weapons you want the TC to affect, and the misc equipment list would only list the applicable targeting computer.

Edited by Boris The Spider, 29 January 2016 - 11:06 AM.

[Khobai]

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Want to make the other targeting computers worthwhile? Just add the 5 tonne rule to it.

how does that make it worthwhile? I just wouldnt use it at all then.

[Boulangerie]

The Command Console can only be mounted on Heavy classes and up.

It takes one Critical slot and weighs 3 tons.

It can only be mounted in the Head section.

I can't look up the exact stats since I'm at work, but I believe the equipment gives a boost to Sensor Range, visual zoom amount, and Target Info gathering time.

Two of those bonuses are also given by the Beagle Active Probe, and for half the weight. The visual zoom function isn't necessarily bad, however it's a negligible amount.

IMO it needs something to set it apart from the Targeting Computers of similar weight. I'd like the option to retain up to two Hard locks, perhaps with only the most recent you targeted giving you Info/paperdoll, but allowing your teammates to lock onto your two targets easily. Another option is to auto lock UAV's for you as well. I think we can come up with ideas that aren't just, +10% to this thing vs. +10% to that other thing.

The targeting Computer 1 is always worth it IMO. It's one ton, and one slot. It gives you increased crit chances, with minor bonuses to projectile velocity as well. The 1 weight intervals which increasing TCs get, as well as increased crit slots, do not match the increases in their respective bonuses. This means that you receive diminishing returns for larger and larger pieces of equipment. In a game which has such focus on the balance between tonnage, space, and equipment used, the larger Targeting computers are almost always left off the Mech and collecting dust in the hangar.

[Khobai]

the command console should be required to use the command wheel feature that theyre supposedly adding to the game soon™

[Boris The Spider]

Khobai, on 29 January 2016 - 11:06 AM, said:

how does that make it worthwhile? I just wouldnt use it at all then.

How can you be sure, you have no idea what it even does? When a Gauss Rifle requires at least a Class 3 targeting computer to be fitted to the mech, and receives absolutely no bonus from a Class 1, and a Class 1 can only really handle the Armaments of the Lightest of mech, that would necessitate a complete rework of its bonuses.

[Mcgral18]

MASC at pitiful speeds for at least 20 seconds, or increase the speed to be worthwhile for 7.5 seconds.


At the moment, you use it after jumping to speed back up, or return from poking (but not going into poking because screen shake).

[Khobai]

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How can you be sure, you have no idea what it even does? When a Gauss Rifle requires at least a Class 3 targeting computer to be fitted to the mech,

Because the targeting computer would have to make clan weapons 20%-25% better in order to justify increasing the weight by 20%-25% (i.e. gauss is 12 tons while level 3 TC is 3 tons which is a 25% increase in tonnage). And thats NEVER going to happen, clan weapons are already too good as is.

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MASC at pitiful speeds for at least 20 seconds, or increase the speed to be worthwhile for 7.5 seconds.

MASC isnt just about the speed though. it gives a huge acceleration bonus. Which is amazing on the executioner. The MASC speed bonus is too low on the Shadowcat though, because the shadowcat has a low max speed, so the shadowcat probably needs a MASC quirk to fix that (shadowcat should get like a +50% masc effectiveness quirk or something like that).

IMO all MASC needs is the reticle shake removed because it doesnt decrease accuracy in battletech. And duration increased to 10 seconds instead of 7.5 seconds. Because 10 seconds is one battletech turn.

Edited by Khobai, 29 January 2016 - 11:32 AM.

[butchly13]

cazidin, on 28 January 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

I think a muffin button would be a unique feature.

Um, yes, I'd like pumpernickel please. Or blueberry if you're out of pumpernickel.