83 replies to this topic

[Alistair Winter]

Just saw a post by Spr1ggan where he said the Timber Wolf isn't that great, so I figured the sky was falling down and I'd better start a new thread.

Note: I'm talking about PUBLIC MATCHES here. Not Community Warfare nonsense. Keep your ERLL-toting laserpoke-mons out of it.

The BJ-1X's has lost its amazing structure quirks. The Thunderbolts have lost most of their hyperquirks. So who are the undisputed champs of 2016? What's the equivalent of 2012's Streak-Raven or 2013's CTF-3D / Highlander poptart? Since I'm talking about public matches, the Clan vs Inner Sphere debate is of minor concern.

Is it possible that there aren't any clear imba top tier mechs anymore? Is mech balance better than ever?

[MechWarrior849305]

5xLPL Battlemaster, 3xLPL Arrow

[Spr1ggan]

Alistair Winter, on 20 February 2016 - 02:06 AM, said:

Just saw a post by Spr1ggan where he said the Timber Wolf isn't that great, so I figured the sky was falling down and I'd better start a new thread.

Note: I'm talking about PUBLIC MATCHES here. Not Community Warfare nonsense. Keep your ERLL-toting laserpoke-mons out of it.

The BJ-1X's has lost its amazing structure quirks. The Thunderbolts have lost most of their hyperquirks. So who are the undisputed champs of 2016? What's the equivalent of 2012's Streak-Raven or 2013's CTF-3D / Highlander poptart? Since I'm talking about public matches, the Clan vs Inner Sphere debate is of minor concern.

Is it possible that there aren't any clear imba top tier mechs anymore? Is mech balance better than ever?

Like i said, depends who's piloting it. If they know how to play and build the mech, frontloading armour etc. Then it's going to be decent and a threat. Most of the ones i encounter in solo queue though have questionable builds and seem to be lacking proper armour distribution. My Ice Ferret has been stripping their CT armour in 2-3 shots while taking very little damage in return.

Edited by Spr1ggan, 20 February 2016 - 02:08 PM.

[NiNaja]

sad to see that people reach tier 1 and need to ask what mechs are top-tier...

[Alistair Winter]

Spr1ggan, on 20 February 2016 - 02:24 AM, said:

Like i said, depends who's piloting it. If they know how to play and build the mech, frontloading armour etc. Then it's going to decent and a threat. Most of the ones i encounter in solo queue though have questionable builds and seem to be lacking proper armour distribution. My Ice Ferret has been stripping their CT armour in 2-3 shots while taking very little damage in return.

So you still think the Timber Wolf is the best heavy in the game? Or one of the top 3?

You don't have to account for bad pilots with questionable builds. I mean, if we're talking about the ACH, then we're usually talking about the 6 SPL version, not the CLB2X-AC version.

The point of the thread isn't so much to dissect your comment, taken entirely out of context. I was just trying to get some discussion going about whether MWO still have some very clear top tier mechs or whether balance is so good that they're hard to identify.

[Spr1ggan]

Alistair Winter, on 20 February 2016 - 02:30 AM, said:

So you still think the Timber Wolf is the best heavy in the game? Or one of the top 3?

You don't have to account for bad pilots with questionable builds. I mean, if we're talking about the ACH, then we're usually talking about the 6 SPL version, not the CLB2X-AC version.

The point of the thread isn't so much to dissect your comment, taken entirely out of context. I was just trying to get some discussion going about whether MWO still have some very clear top tier mechs or whether balance is so good that they're hard to identify.

Yeah dude it's cool. I mean it still is a top chassis in terms of armour, agility, and weaponry it can bring etc. I just think pilot ability is a huge factor. Then again i mostly play lights/mediums these days but it says something when you aren't seeing it as the heavy of choice in training scrims with other units or in house scrims either.

[El Bandito]

Alistair Winter, on 20 February 2016 - 02:06 AM, said:

Note: I'm talking about PUBLIC MATCHES here. Not Community Warfare nonsense. Keep your ERLL-toting laserpoke-mons out of it.

In pug queue, from experience.

T1 mechs are: Arctic Cheetah, Firestarter, Oxide, Blackjack-1X, Griffin-2N, Stormcrow, HBK-IIC-A, Ebon Jaguar, Timberwolf, Thunderbolt-5SS, Jagermech, Awesome-8R, Stalker, Battlemaster, Banshee, Mauler, Atlas, Executioner, Dire Wolf.

Alistair Winter, on 20 February 2016 - 02:06 AM, said:

Is it possible that there aren't any clear imba top tier mechs anymore? Is mech balance better than ever?

When you **** up mech balance bad, like PGI, only progress is upwards.

Edited by El Bandito, 20 February 2016 - 02:47 AM.

[Wolfways]

Jagermech JM6-S with stock weapons. Best mech in the game for years

I wish I liked AC's but I mainly only use it when I'm grinding C-bills or my wife is playing (she thinks clan mechs suck ).

Edited by Wolfways, 20 February 2016 - 06:28 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Spr1ggan, on 20 February 2016 - 02:24 AM, said:

My Ice Ferret has been stripping their CT armour in 2-3 shots while taking very little damage in return.

To be fair, it is an Ice Ferret. Those things are stupidly hard to kill. Or, at least, it seems that way given my average life expectancy in one....

[Mead]

NiNaja, on 20 February 2016 - 02:25 AM, said:

sad to see that people reach tier 1 and need to ask what mechs are top-tier...

Heaven forbid anyone ask the community for opinions or try to start a civil conversation.

There's always someone...

[Bishop Steiner]

Spr1ggan, on 20 February 2016 - 02:24 AM, said:

Like i said, depends who's piloting it. If they know how to play and build the mech, frontloading armour etc. Then it's going to decent and a threat. Most of the ones i encounter in solo queue though have questionable builds and seem to be lacking proper armour distribution. My Ice Ferret has been stripping their CT armour in 2-3 shots while taking very little damage in return.

Here's the thing

If it "depends on the pilot" now, that would imply a shift to no clear MetaChamp Chassis/Build, which would be a first in MWO history, and cause for celebration

[Haike]

Bishop Steiner, on 20 February 2016 - 07:00 AM, said:

Here's the thing

If it "depends on the pilot" now, that would imply a shift to no clear MetaChamp Chassis/Build, which would be a first in MWO history, and cause for celebration

Somewhat true, mostly because there's a meta build for each chassis, but there's no 1 chassis to win them all.

There's a lot of chassis that are quite good in the pub queue, it's more of what playstyle are you trying to make, which now boils down to the pilot preference.

Speaking of pub gods, is it just me, or timbers are now giving me an impression that their very easy to kill? You can kill Timbers via CT(average meta build maybe 3alphas and you cant miss the huge nose if you have good aim, even if they try to torso twist), or the 2sides(armor stripped, it's coming off in the next shot ez) easily. Their no longer the god-tier chassis mainly because of that in my opinion....their very fragile.

[Bud Crue]

Since Alistair is asking about what is "best" in PUG matches, and without considering pilot skill or goofy builds, then pound for pound I still think it is the Timber.

I won't pretend however that my assessment is based on experience (filthy clan mech and all that) but when I play in groups with T2 and T1 folks, I still see a VAST predominance of Timberwolves. I figure those folks are bringing them for a reason.

As to the larger point in re balance, I think we are really close, though it is hard to say since we are only a few days from the last nerf/buff pass. That said, in the matches I've seen this week I can't think of one mech that "dominates" atm. To be honest, at low levels I would say anything with LRMs and decent support weapons (Maulers maybe? Yes I am being serious). At high levels...Battlemaster or Timbers...maybe even Banshee?

[Pariah Devalis]

Haike, on 20 February 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

Somewhat true, mostly because there's a meta build for each chassis, but there's no 1 chassis to win them all.

There's a lot of chassis that are quite good in the pub queue, it's more of what playstyle are you trying to make, which now boils down to the pilot preference.

Speaking of pub gods, is it just me, or timbers are now giving me an impression that their very easy to kill? You can kill Timbers via CT(average meta build maybe 3alphas and you cant miss the huge nose if you have good aim, even if they try to torso twist), or the 2sides(armor stripped, it's coming off in the next shot ez) easily. Their no longer the god-tier chassis mainly because of that in my opinion....their very fragile.

They never were that hard to kill. I recall dropping in an old Gauss Jager shortly after Clan launch and doing just that. Either ripping side torsos off on the asym builds and laughing all the way to the bank or punching them in the nose repeatedly. They just have a crazy good blend of speed, firepower, and total armor value for their tonnage. Boring as hell, though. Never cared for the nilla wafer that is the TBR.

Bud Crue, on 20 February 2016 - 07:21 AM, said:

Since Alistair is asking about what is "best" in PUG matches, and without considering pilot skill or goofy builds, then pound for pound I still think it is the Timber.

I won't pretend however that my assessment is based on experience (filthy clan mech and all that) but when I play in groups with T2 and T1 folks, I still see a VAST predominance of Timberwolves. I figure those folks are bringing them for a reason.

As to the larger point in re balance, I think we are really close, though it is hard to say since we are only a few days from the last nerf/buff pass. That said, in the matches I've seen this week I can't think of one mech that "dominates" atm. To be honest, at low levels I would say anything with LRMs and decent support weapons (Maulers maybe? Yes I am being serious). At high levels...Battlemaster or Timbers...maybe even Banshee?

Might be because it is our currently heaviest heavy in the Clan lineup, and will be until we get the Night Gyr (god help us all). This is reinforced by the SMN being kinda bad outside of an SRM delivery system, so the next lowest tonnage is a nonstarter. Until the Nova Cat is an option, the 70 ton bracket kinda isn't. Proceed directly to 65 tons, and either you have an ECM utility mech with anemic pod space for its weight but very good hitboxes or a low profile gunboat with very easily focused components. The MDD isn't the worst, but it isn't particularly good, either, outside of Splatdog.

So, either go with the 75 ton all rounder or the 65 ton platforms. The 65's have a lot going for them, but the TBR is still fast and still packs a lot more armor than the lighter mechs on the basis of it being a heavier chassis. Not much wiggle room there for Clan heavies at the moment.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 20 February 2016 - 07:36 AM.

[Haike]

Here's my list of new pub stars.


Lights: ACH(6SPL) / Jenner 2C(SRMs)
Medium: BJ-1X (pubstar even after nerf) / SCRs(SRMs) / Hunchies 2C(UAC10)
Heavies: WHM-BW(4AC5 build *****) / Marauder-6R(3AC5 4ML) / Timber(2LPL3ML or Gauss+5ML)
Assaults: Battlemasters (LPL ML) / Direwolf (3UAC10 2UAC5 dakka) / banshee-3M (i like 2LPL 5MPL)

timbers are fragile nowadays. doesnt feel as tanky as it used to be. Definitely not THE chassis, but simply a versatile one that can do pretty much everything

Edited by Haike, 20 February 2016 - 07:28 AM.

[Rear Admiral Tier 6]

VINDICATOR 1X.....POWERGAP.....REST

[Monkey Lover]

Depends on all you're doing

Crow is still one of the best for a medium. What other medium is running over 100kph and has alpha larger than most assaults. Can be setup to play any roll.

Timber is a great brawler if you set it up that way. Don't brawl with erlarge lasers and say it sucks.

Firestarter and cheaters are both still best lights.

Assaults differ on the roll you're playing. Dires still have the firepower to non-stop kill 4 mechs.
Banshees still vomit, maulers still AC spam and atlas is now tanking like a boss.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 20 February 2016 - 07:43 AM.

[Appogee]

Arctic Cheetahs are still the best Mech in the game. Firestarters are still strong.
Storm Crows are still the best Medium. Hunchback IIC is a rising star.
Ebons, Timbies and Hellbringers remain strong. Warhammers are rising stars.
Warhawk is strong. Maulers and Atlases are strong, if you play them smart.


Metamechs used to be good for these kinds of comparisons, but the information there is way out of date relative to the Paul's latest grand dequirkening. The author Gman is hopefully working on updates.

Edited by Appogee, 20 February 2016 - 07:39 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

If you're basing things on pilot skill, then the mech isn't what makes the top tier but rather the combination of skill and weapon packages. Everyone knows that "laser vomit" is king, currently, with SRMs shortly behind and the rest of the projectile weapons WAY behind. So, take anything that has -heat generation with a combination of +10% range and/or - energy cool down and you've got your platform. From there, it is the heaviest and most nimble possible combination in the weight class with, hopefully, JJs for Lights/Mediums.

[cazidin]

The best light mech is clearly the Urbie. Don't listen to those Arctic Cheaters or uncool Firestarter pilots! The best medium? Enforcer or Hunchback for the IS, Stormcrow for the Clan. The best heavy? Black Knight for the IS, Timber Wolf for the Clan. The best assault? Well, they're all quite rubbish, actually.

(I'm just kidding. Most of the assault mechs are good.)