10 replies to this topic

[MauttyKoray]

So weapon range quirks are based on percentages, and everyone knows percentages affect larger numbers more than smaller numbers. The way Russ worded this change, it will effect just the 'blanket quirk', not the overall combination of blanket and specific quirks.

Lets have an example, we'll use the IS lasers for this and the effective range (not the maximum) to keep it simple.

Now let's apply a 20% quirk to them
SL - 135 + 20% = 162 (+27)
ML - 270 + 20% = 324 (+54)
LL - 450 + 20% = 540 (+90)
ERLL - 675 + 20% = 810 (+135)

Seeing the problem? The smaller lasers get pretty much nothing from it, while the two large lasers are getting pretty hefty bonuses.

Now lets instead use the change Russ talked about and limit the 'general' quirk to 10%, but then also give SL and ML a weapon specific 10% quirk to give them their 20% in total still.

SL - 135 + 20% = 162 (+27)
ML - 270 + 20% = 324 (+54)
LL - 450 + 10% = 495 (+45)
ERLL - 675 + 10% = 742 (+67)

Wow, that's a LOT tighter of a spread isn't it? It also isn't pushing the ERLL beyond mid-700s or the LL above 500 while still keeping the bonus intact for the SL and ML.

If you still don't get it feel free to QQ below, not everyone passed math class I guess.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 30 January 2016 - 07:19 PM.

[FupDup]

If PGI actually follows through on adding the medium/small specific quirks in place, that would be kewl and dandy. The problem is, with my cynicism and experience, I'm expecting either no replacement buffs put in or just very low values for the replacement buffs.

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Another way to go about this without having to use medium/small specific quirks would be to use additive quirks instead of multiplicative/percentage quirks.

So, instead of giving a mech +25% energy range, instead it might get around +100 meters energy range (arbitrary example). In this event it gives a proportionally MUCH larger buff to the shorter ranged beams than the longer ranged beams.

Nearly all structure and armor quirks are handled with additive operators, so it's not like we have to add any new coding ability to do this. It's just a matter of convincing the dev overlords...

Edited by FupDup, 30 January 2016 - 09:21 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

FupDup, on 30 January 2016 - 09:15 PM, said:

If PGI actually follows through on adding the medium/small specific quirks in place, that would be kewl and dandy. The problem is, with my cynicism and experience, I'm expecting either no replacement buffs put in or just very low values for the replacement buffs.


Another way to go about this without having to use medium/small specific quirks would be to use additive quirks instead of multiplicative/percentage quirks.

So, instead of giving a mech +25% energy range, instead it might get around +100 meters energy range (arbitrary example). In this event it gives a proportionally MUCH larger buff to the shorter ranged beams than the longer ranged beams.

Nearly all structure and armor quirks are handled with additive operators, so it's not like we have to add any new coding ability to do this. It's just a matter of convincing the dev overlords...

But the problem is still that +100 meter for a Large is far more beneficial than +100 meters for a small. You;re looking at optimal/maximums of 235/470 versus 550/1100 between a small and large then, with the ER also getting that boost. I think as long as they follow through with the weapon specific boosts beyond the general quirk it will be alright.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 30 January 2016 - 09:29 PM.

[FupDup]

MauttyKoray, on 30 January 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

But the problem is still that +100 meter for a Large is far more beneficial than +100 meters for a small. You;re looking at optimal/maximums of 235/470 versus 550/1100.

From a "proportional" standpoint, the LL would gain about 22% more range while the SL gained 74% more range in that arbitrary example.

Of course there is still a disparity in the end, but then again Large Lasers are kind of supposed to have way more range than Smalls (in exchange for Smalls being way more efficient for damage/tonnage/heat...at least that's how it "should" work out even if it doesn't right now...).

[Lostdragon]

MauttyKoray, on 30 January 2016 - 09:21 PM, said:

But the problem is still that +100 meter for a Large is far more beneficial than +100 meters for a small. You;re looking at optimal/maximums of 235/470 versus 550/1100.

In what universe? +100 m gives the small laser almost 75% more range where it gives the large about a 22% increase in range. This works out much better for the SL.

[Khobai]

Quote

If PGI actually follows through on adding the medium/small specific quirks in place, that would be kewl and dandy.

no thats stupid. lasers dont need more range.

reducing range on CLPL and CERML makes way more sense

Quote

Of course there is still a disparity in the end, but then again Large Lasers are kind of supposed to have way more range than Smalls

Large Laser has been useless for a while.

Because they made the ERLL only 1 more heat for 50% more range.

When would you ever not use the ERLL? They need to fix that **** and make the LL worth using again.

Edited by Khobai, 30 January 2016 - 10:07 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

This isn't a balance thread guys, its just the reason why the 'blanket' quirking is being toned down for lasers. They base it on percentage, if you want them to change it go tweet Russ or something, but this is why they're capping it.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 30 January 2016 - 09:15 PM, said:

If PGI actually follows through on adding the medium/small specific quirks in place, that would be kewl and dandy. The problem is, with my cynicism and experience, I'm expecting either no replacement buffs put in or just very low values for the replacement buffs.

-----------

Another way to go about this without having to use medium/small specific quirks would be to use additive quirks instead of multiplicative/percentage quirks.

So, instead of giving a mech +25% energy range, instead it might get around +100 meters energy range (arbitrary example). In this event it gives a proportionally MUCH larger buff to the shorter ranged beams than the longer ranged beams.

Nearly all structure and armor quirks are handled with additive operators, so it's not like we have to add any new coding ability to do this. It's just a matter of convincing the dev overlords...

As random examples, LOLcust quirks:

  <Quirk name="armorresist_rl_additive" value="16" />
  <Quirk name="energy_heat_multiplier" value="-0.25" />

There used to be multiplicative Armour quirks too, before Normalization.
Hey! My December backup has them! LOLcust too

<Quirk name="armorresist_la_multiplier" value="0.5" />

Not sure there's ever been additive Weapon quirks yet.

[Vxheous]

Khobai, on 30 January 2016 - 10:02 PM, said:

no thats stupid. lasers dont need more range.

reducing range on CLPL and CERML makes way more sense



Large Laser has been useless for a while.

Because they made the ERLL only 1 more heat for 50% more range.

When would you ever not use the ERLL? They need to fix that **** and make the LL worth using again.

If you lowered Clan ERML and CLPL ranges further, You would have to look at lowering heat and/or burn duration as well. Clan lasers are supposed to be balanced to having higher range/damage with higher heat/burn duration (actually all Lasers, not just Clan are supposed to be balanced this way). Why do you think the IS LPL is universally considered the best laser weapon system in the game right now? The Downside of using IS ERLL vs IS LL is the fact that ERLL has a default burntime of 1.25 seconds. There are plenty of amazing IS mech builds that utilize IS LL over IS ERLL.

[Khobai]

Quote

If you lowered Clan ERML and CLPL ranges further, You would have to look at lowering heat and/or burn duration as well.

obviously.

CERML can go from:
7 damage, 6 heat and 405m range --> 6 damage, 5 heat and 360m range.

CLPL can go from:
13 damage, 11 heat and 600m range --> 12 damage, 9 heat, and 485m range.

The beam durations can also be reduced slightly due to the lower damage.


Clan lasers would retain a slight damage/range advantage with the downside of having higher heat/long beam duration/cooldown.

And the weapons would be balanced more closely at the base level, which means IS would no longer require huge weapon quirks to balance things out.

Edited by Khobai, 30 January 2016 - 10:41 PM.

[Duke Nedo]

I want range bonuses on lpl though for most of my is mechs, never cared much for ml or erll... Got a month where I could build that on a quirked mech I guess...