42 replies to this topic

[DavidStarr]

Hi. I've just started playing, maybe have 10 battles on record. I'm struggling a lot with doing damage and being useful, and I think I need to start with a long-range sniper or missile mech. Can you recommend any?

[mailin]

Because you haven't played your first 25 matches yet use the trial mechs for now. You may find something that really clicks for you. You're better off saving your c-bills until you have a really good feel for the game and controls and have played all of the different trial mechs several times. In many ways matches are never the same. They may be similar, but there are a lot of variables, which is one reason we keep playing this game.

Which trial mechs have you used and enjoyed? Which one(s) do you feel the most comfortable with? Why?


Sorry, I totally forgot my manners! Welcome to MWO!!!

Edited by mailin, 31 January 2016 - 05:36 AM.

[DavidStarr]

mailin, on 31 January 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

Sorry, I totally forgot my manners! Welcome to MWO!!!

Thank you!

I've tried Hunchback-4P, some heavy (probably Thunderbolt), some assault (probably Dire Wolf). Didn't like either. Average lifespan is 1:40, average damage dealt is 40-60. Will keep trying.

P. S. Just tried Catapult, it seems great! Although a bit light on ammo capacity.

Edited by DavidStarr, 31 January 2016 - 06:40 AM.

[mailin]

One thing to keep in mind is that trials are not optimized, nor are they skilled up. For those reasons they tend to run hot and generally don't have full armor.

[The Mecha Streisand]

David, first, welcome to MWO!

Now, time for some not-so-nice honesty. No. You do NOT need to start with a long-range anything mech, if you hope to ever be any good at MWO. (Ask me why I've been at it since 2012 and am still in Tier 5. G'head.)

What you NEED to do, if you want to learn the game well, is start with brawlers and skirmishers.

Know who says that "I'd like to play long-range fire support" stuff? SCRUBS LIKE ME. And we do. And we develop CRAP habits that simply don't hold up even in the middle of the pack. We get our nuts crushed whenever we face even semi-competitive opponents.

So do the right thing, Dave. Skip that "long-range fire support" stuff, which we BOTH know is just an excuse to stay out of the line of fire, and learn to live in everyone's faces.

(Any Atlas will do. Most Battlemasters. Thunderbolt -5SS, -9SE, -5S. Timber Wolf. Storm Crow. Hunchback -4G, -4H, -4SP.)

[Kurbeks]

Hi and welcome!

I agree with other peeps here and suggest you to try all trial mechs at east once or twice.

Trial Hunchback ovverheats too easily if all laser are fired in same time, same as Dire wolf is dual gauss on slow assults, which needs some skill.

[DavidStarr]

Kurbeks, on 31 January 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

Trial Hunchback ovverheats too easily if all laser are fired in same time

I actually bought the Hunchback on advice of some YT video. Regret it already.

The Mecha Streisand, on 31 January 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

No. You do NOT need to start with a long-range anything mech, if you hope to ever be any good at MWO.

Fair enough, I'll take your advice. I don't know the first thing about fitting mechs and playing them right anyway. I did like shooting missiles that don't require a line of sight, though.
I think heavies and assaults suit me the most so far. Should probably focus on heavies and let someone better skilled handle the assault mechs for now, shouldn't I?

[mailin]

Usually we recommend mediums (like the Hunchback or Centurion) for new players. Sorry that you're regretting purchasing a Hunchie. They really are VERY good mechs.

Check out this website for building mechs before buying.

http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

The reason we recommned mediums is that they provide a good mix of firepower, maneuverability/speed and armor. You can certainly try a Heavy, no one will complain about it if you do, but I agree that you should avoid assaults for right now. The problem with assaults is that they are slow and lumbering. If you make a mistake you can find yourself alone very quickly, and a lone assault WILL get focused into slag.

I also suggest you keep working with your Hunchback. They are great mechs because they can carry a wide range of weapons so, if you buy three different Hunchies(I recommend 4P, 4SP and 4G) you will litterally get to use every weapon if you so choose, as well as being able to level them all up. Win-Win.

Good luck.

[Spheroid]

I am interested in what Hunchback you purchased. All can be made into very lethal machines. Are you still running a stock build?

[DavidStarr]

Spheroid, on 31 January 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

I am interested in what Hunchback you purchased. All can be made into very lethal machines. Are you still running a stock build?

Hunchback-4P. Not stock, but do note that I don't have a slightest idea what I'm doing when it comes to loadouts. I mean, I switched some stuff around and made sure I equipped as many weapons as my weight limit allows for, but that's it. And guess what, now it overheats kinda quickly, what a shock!

mailin, on 31 January 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

The reason we recommned mediums is that they provide a good mix of firepower, maneuverability/speed and armor.

I understand. Although I noticed throughout a fair number of different online games I played that I'm never good with "jack of all trades, master of none" kinds of classes.

P. S. Thanks a lot for the online configurator link, I will definitely be spending some quality time with that tool.

Edited by DavidStarr, 31 January 2016 - 02:09 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

DavidStarr, on 31 January 2016 - 02:08 PM, said:

Hunchback-4P. Not stock, but do note that I don't have a slightest idea what I'm doing when it comes to loadouts. I mean, I switched some stuff around and made sure I equipped as many weapons as my weight limit allows for, but that's it. And guess what, now it overheats kinda quickly, what a shock!


I understand. Although I noticed throughout a fair number of different online games I played that I'm never good with "jack of all trades, master of none" kinds of classes.

P. S. Thanks a lot for the online configurator link, I will definitely be spending some quality time with that tool.

if you are having trouble overheating you do not need to use all the hardpoints, perhaps try something like this:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...ab956826ff5bdc7
when you get a bit better at shielding the Hunch and controlling the heat try removing a few heatsinks for extra lasers possibly also move the laser from the left arm to the right torso, if you are still running hot with that build remove another laser for a heatsink.

double heatsinks is an important upgrade as it doubles the power of your first 10 in engine heatsinks, your out of engine heatsinks and in engine past the first 10 only get a 1.4 times power boost
.
also if you fire more than 6 lasers at once you will run very hot due to a mechinic known as Ghost Heat which applies extra heat as a penalty for firing more than a specific number of some weapons at once.

Edited by Rogue Jedi, 31 January 2016 - 02:28 PM.

[Spheroid]

First all mechs save very few need double heat sinks to operate in any effective manner. That upgrade will cost you 1.5 million c-bills, but is very worth it.

Secondly, medium lasers beyond six generate "ghost heat" a balancing mechanic to prevent short time to kill caused by excessively strong pinpoint weapon salvos. This can be circumvented by firing those beyond six half a second after the first group or creating the second weapon group with dissimilar unlinked weapons like medium pulse lasers.

Heat can also be beaten by equipping coolshot consumbables which run either 10k or 40k for the two types.

Your long term goal for the 4P should be to upgrade the heat sinks, internal structure and engine from a 200 to a 250-275 STD. Use the trial Hunchback as a guide.

For right now you could just run a stock 200 STD, 18 DHS, 6x mlas, 3x mplas and a BAP or just run the trial since XP gained from that can be used to level the one you own as well.

Edited by Spheroid, 31 January 2016 - 03:14 PM.

[InspectorG]

DavidStarr, on 31 January 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

Hi. I've just started playing, maybe have 10 battles on record. I'm struggling a lot with doing damage and being useful, and I think I need to start with a long-range sniper or missile mech. Can you recommend any?

Use the Trial mechs for now. Research, then buy your 1st mech.

Now the bad news:

Snipers in MWO arent that great. How i mean that is sniping in MWO is not like CoD.

Long Range Missiles are worse.

A quirk rebalancing is about to happen so Inner Sphere mechs are gonna lose some range on their lazors.

Now, instead of 'sniping' you think 'long range direct fire' you have a better idea. Why?

Sniping usually involves the idea of a lone gunman hiding and one shot killing enemies at Range.
1. hard to hide in MWO, camo does nothing, enemies have Radar, and good players know all the hiding spots.
2. hiding basically subtracts team HP, and i mean this in beginner usage, veterans would know when to hide, when to relocate, and when to get up front to eat some damage for a teammate.
3. no real one shot kills in MWO

If you go the Raven route you have a light and mobile mech thats pretty small but cant take much damage. Essentially you want to poke the enemy as your teammates do to add more damage, make the enemy choose from more targets. Or harrass an enemy so they poke at you instead of a friendly that outputs more damage.

You could go the Jager route with dual Gauss, but gauss DPS has dropped a bit and that mech can be fragile if you get lazy and predictable with relocating.

If you want range, get some Stalkers. Nice high hardpoints, tanky if you know how to deadside or twist damage. Can brawl because LL is that good and you can SRM as well.

metamechs.com - research here, not the forums.

[InspectorG]

The Mecha Streisand, on 31 January 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

David, first, welcome to MWO!

You do NOT need to start with a long-range anything mech, if you hope to ever be any good at MWO.

What you NEED to do, if you want to learn the game well, is start with brawlers and skirmishers.

Know who says that "I'd like to play long-range fire support" stuff? SCRUBS LIKE ME.

So do the right thing, Dave. Skip that "long-range fire support" stuff, which we BOTH know is just an excuse to stay out of the line of fire, and learn to live in everyone's faces.

(Any Atlas will do. Most Battlemasters. Thunderbolt -5SS, -9SE, -5S. Timber Wolf. Storm Crow. Hunchback -4G, -4H, -4SP.)

Sorry, man.

TERRIBLE ADVICE.

500m is pretty much the default range of most fighting.

Brawling was and still is considered a lost art.

Recommending an Assault like an Atlas for a beginner is a mistake. The skill requirement for positioning and patience for that thing is very high. You get out of position, you die.

Thuds are good but one had LPL quirks, and the other has MPL range quirks. Can brawl but also good at 500m.

Stormcrow can do anything. Moot point.

Hunchbacks are situational and the P is a poke machine, not a brawler. Brawl too early in that, lose your hunch.

Beginners need to learn to set up pokes and firing lines at range before brawling. Most range weapons you can brawl with anyhow.

[Tarl Cabot]

Quote

I switched some stuff around and made sure I equipped as many weapons as my weight limit allows for, but that's it. And guess what, now it overheats kinda quickly, what a shock!

Not always a good idea. Also be aware that weapon placement order is important, as it decides which weapon goes into a particular hardpoint.

Next is tics/weapon groupings.

Then deciding when to alpha a tic or chain fire (backspace key on highlighted tic)

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 31 January 2016 - 05:19 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

DavidStarr, on 31 January 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

I actually bought the Hunchback on advice of some YT video. Regret it already.


Fair enough, I'll take your advice. I don't know the first thing about fitting mechs and playing them right anyway. I did like shooting missiles that don't require a line of sight, though.
I think heavies and assaults suit me the most so far. Should probably focus on heavies and let someone better skilled handle the assault mechs for now, shouldn't I?

Dave:

The Mecha Streisand is my alt account (now that we can freely change names, it's USEFUL again!). Sorry if that came off rude. Not intended so. And by all means, WELCOME TO MWO!


Believe it or not, the Hunchback is possibly the MOST recommended first mech purchase in this game. That chassis has something for everyone. Just tough enough to let you get in someone's face, but not enough to let you tank an Atlas head-on. At least one specialist for each missiles, energy weapons, and ballistics, and a pretty darned useful hero mech too.

There are some pros AND cons to this, but if you want to understand a little bit about mech building, try metamechs.com. Read the articles there on the different build philosophies (and take it all with a grain of salt, as it's meant for competitive players more than new and casual players).

It's dangerous to go alone. Take THIS. (I humbly submit to you an old guide-like post-slash-rambling-Unabomber-manifesto-thingy I started on the topic of mech building.)

You're right, of course. My meds SHOULD be adjusted. At any rate, the Hunchback is a fine medium, and probably the best starting point for any new mechwarrior. Learning to BUILD it? That's where WE come in to help you out. <3

[DavidStarr]

Thanks for all the links and advices, guys. I already picked up a few useful pieces of info. For example, I did not realize it makes a difference where a weapon is mounted.

TheRAbbi, on 31 January 2016 - 07:17 PM, said:

Sorry if that came off rude

Not at all!

Edited by DavidStarr, 31 January 2016 - 10:23 PM.

[Not A Real RAbbi]

Sure DOES make a difference, and honestly it's one of the strengths of the HBK (including the Clan HBK-IIC) chassis. HIGH shoulder mounts for the primary weapon system(s)!

A few things to consider:

1.) Generally, a higher mount is a better mount, at least for direct-fire weapons. The less of your mech you have to expose to fire the weapon at an enemy, the less return fire you'll face. This also pays off in the hill-humping game, where it takes less time to climb up to where your weapons are clear to fire, and then to fully return to cover after firing. AGAIN, this minimizes exposure to enemy return fire, and also to enemy observation in general.

2.) The ORDER in which you install weapons in a component with multiple hard points is important! That is, for instance, if you have TWO B hard points in a Right Torso component, and on the mech they appear one over-top-of the other, then there is a specific order in which they must be installed. And it varies by mech. For some, the first in goes to the top. For others, it's the last in. You'll have to mess with it in Mech Lab to figure out which is which.

3.) Torsos have more armor than do Arms. A weapon in a side torso is going to take longer for your enemy to destroy, all else being equal, than is one in an arm. If you have an E hard point in your RA and in your RT, and only one more E weapon to install, you're generally better off putting it in the RT, as it'll last longer there. USUALLY. We're talking in generalities here.

4.) If you're putting a weapon or other piece of equipment in an arm, you probably want to have full or nearly-full armor on it. If NOT, though, you can cut down on that arm's armor to free up more weight for other weapons, ammo, a bigger engine, more heat sinks, etc. It doesn't cost you ANYTHING (used to, though) to lose an arm or leg or whatever, as far as cash goes. Losing an arm doesn't cost you speed or twist rate or anything else, except the use of whatever was in that arm. If that was nothing, then it's often considered wasteful to bother putting full armor on that arm. Unless you specifically plan to use it for a shield arm, and it's a mech that's GOOD at shielding with that particular arm (Centurion, for example).

[segeri9]

Hello, and as everyone has already stated, welcome to MWO!

Here are my 2cents worth for the 4P (and maybe some general tips as well that you could apply to most mechs of similar playstyle.)

1) First and foremost, my biggest tip for mechs in your class would be to find the biggest guy you can find and support him. Stay a good 90m - 120m from him.

2) Do NOT block his exit. One major mistake that people who follow the team is that they stay too close. Once the assault sees trouble, he'll most likely poke and back pedal away from danger. You do NOT want to be directly behind him, or else he'll have no place to run, and you'll just have lost your assault.

3) Whatever he shoots, try to shoot as well, preferably at a different angle. doesn't have to be directly behind the target, but basically, make your target have more than one to choose from. Also, try to focus on weakpoints you could exploit. As you play, you'll learn to identify priority segments on a mech.

4) if you ARE the main target, learn to twist your torso to spread the damage evenly. If you have a "dead zone" or a part which doesn't have weapons (e.g. here is the centurion's shield arm, or in your case, the side WITHOUT your hunch) point that side towards the direction of most weapons fire while your weapons are cooling down. otherwise, try to make sure that open components are protected. use as much armor you have left that you could spare as you try to get out of the way. This tip also works when focused on by lrms. Which on that note, run for the nearest cover and/or ecm mech

5) When firing, try to learn how many alpha strikes (firing all weapons) you can take before overheating. As previously mentioned here previously, be aware of ghostheat and stagger your weapons with those groups. (personally I use 6ML's and 2MPL's on alpha). once you start overheating, that's when you regulate your trigger finger.

I've applied and modified this playstyle to a lot of my mechs and soon got myself to where I am. This playstyle worked for me, and hopefully would work for you too.

[segeri9]

I'd also like to add in some mechbay tips btw

1) if you're used to fighting already, try to frontload your armor. this means you lower your rear armor and move them to the front. Most stock builds have unnecessarily high rear armor. personal preference is 8 armor on all torsos, but some people are comfortable with as high as 12. Some even mix it up with 10-12-10. Find your soft spot.

2) When buying a mech, double heatsinks are an almost mandatory requirement. Some people even go as far as call it a Mech Tax.

3) When upgrading your mech for more space, upgrade endosteel first before considering ferrofibrous. endo steel gives a lot more weight bonus for the same amount of space ferro takes up. One common misconception people get with the ferro upgrade is that they assume it adds armor to your mech. Only HALF correct. What it does is it gives you extra weight for you to allocate more armor (assuming you still have enough to spare). So in short, it does exactly what endo does.... with less weight. Only use ferro if you can spare the lost component slots AND only after you get endo

As previously mentioned in my last post, hopefully this helps you in the long run, and once again, welcome to MWO.