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Best Starting Sniper Mech And Missile Mech?


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#21 Leone

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Posted 31 January 2016 - 11:39 PM

Sorry if some of us seem bent on suggesting a more brawly playstyle. We're just trying to help you skip some learning step we made. Seeing if we can fast lane ya to some mech melting fun. The short of it is, based on the higher tonnage an/or heat cost for larger ranged weaponry, a brawler will outright kill a sniper if it can get inna range unmolested.

Something I know I tend to forget from time to time is that positioning is a skill that takes time to learn as well, an not everyone is infatuated with the school of hardknocks.

I'll let you on a secret. Despite the fact I pretty much advocate for never using large lasers, and have some rather aggressive guides floating around, my very first mech was a uac 5 an dual large laser shadowhawk. It's what I puttered around on learning the game, an I'll admit, sometimes I forget that.

That said, if your thinkin' of trying to snipe, the 4P should beable to do it for ya. We just need to tweak it in a completely non Leonian fashion. Assuming you haven't put in double heat sinks you could try this... (Endosteel is a fairly useful upgrade.)

The idea being use the small lasers to force the larges into the highest weapon slots (Drop in training grounds to test it out or something) and then you've a buncha small lasers for point defense when the brawling happens. I'll admit, prolly not the best build, but it's a start.

Also, if you've the 4SP or the 4J, they are some solid lrm mechs. Tell you what, I'm not on too often, but friend me, an if you see me on, send me a message. I may miss it, but if not we could try droppin' together an I can showcase the HBK 4J.

~Leone.

Edited by Leone, 02 February 2016 - 10:44 PM.


#22 Takashi Uchida

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 12:26 AM

The Hunchback is a stern taskmaster but it's worth it in the end for the skills you will develop playing them.

I'd probably stick with the 4P (my first mech, too). Focus on twisting right after you are done shooting to protect that right hunch. It's also important not to overtwist! The Hunchback has such a great range for it's torso twist that if you twist too far right, you can expose the backside of your right torso, and the enemy will chew through that thin rear armor very quickly.

If you're running the classic 9 medium laser build, I would group your weapons like this. Group 1 will be the six lasers in the hunch. Group 2 will be the remaining three lasers (one in the head, one in each arm). Now this is where the ghost heat mechanic really sucks: The head laser is the best positioned hardpoint on the mech! It's even higher than the already high hunch lasers, and certainly much higher than the low arms.

However, if you fire more than 6 inner sphere medium lasers at once, you get an additional heat penalty. There are instances where you might want to do an alpha strike (fire all 9 lasers) but you will suffer a huge heat penality and probably be in the 70% range even if you start from 0% heat. The penalty gets even worse the more medium lasers you fire at once (after 6). So if you think it's worth it, you can put the 6 hunch lasers and the head laser in one group.

Normally though, you'll want your pattern to be like this.

1. Encounter the enemy. Hopefully your allies will have already targeted it so you can have his loadout and damage report before you even engage. If not though, make sure to press "R" on him so you know what you're dealing with. Pick a spot to shoot at. If you're not sure (or being jammed by ECM), go for the center torso. But, if you suspect he's an inner sphere mech that has an XL engine, go for a side torso if you're confident. Even if he's not an inner sphere XL, if you see a significantly damaged side torso, you might want to shoot there. It all depends on the context. Maybe it's a fast light, go for the legs. Maybe it's a mech with lots of firepower in one arm, it may be worth removing the major threat first.

2. Dump your 6 torso lasers into the mech. Wait 0.5 seconds. Now shoot your remaining 3 lasers. If you did it right, you'll have incurred a significant amount of heat but at least have avoided any additional penalty.

3. Twist right to protect your right torso.

4. Depending on the situation, you can twist back for another shot or disengage and take cover while you cool off. During all this, it's best that you keep moving and not come to a complete stop, making you an easy target. Bob and weave!

That's pretty much the deal for the classic 4P builds. I would recommend picking up two more Hunchbacks and getting enough XP to go through the skill tree to at least the "elite" efficiency category (you need basic efficiences completed on 3 mechs of the same "family" to be able to get the elite efficiencies). There's a pretty big difference once you have all the elite efficiencies unlocked, because it will increase your "basic" ones as well.

I would recommend getting the: 4J, and then picking from the 4SP and 4G

4J: Has 2 10-tube missile hardpoints in the right hunch. This mech has some missile cooldown quirks, especially for the LRM-10. So with two of those you get 20 tubes of LRM firing quickly. Kanajashi has a good basic tutorial for LRM usage, with this mech specifically.



4SP: The 4SP is different from other Hunchies because it has symmetrical hardpoints (of course you don't have to build it that way if you don't want to). The 4SP is great with SRMs and medium lasers. Instead of one big hunch, you have two "little" hunches on each shoulder. It's a good compact brawler.

4G: The whole point of this thing is to bring an AC/20 to the fight and finish off weakened mechs and beat the crap out of mechs that are too focused on your heavy and assault allies. It's like the 4P you have but instead of 6 lasers in the hunch you should bring an AC20. You will have to learn how to lead targets and deal with the slow projectile speed of the AC20. It's a fun weapon though and worth learning how to use.

That's pretty much my spiel on Hunchbacks. Here's the secret. They can carry a very good amount of firepower for the weight. And outside the hunch, they are quite small mechs! Seriously! Look at it's size compared to mechs 5 tons heavier (ie. Shadowhawk, Griffin, Kintaro), they are huge and hittable. So if you can preserve that hunch, it's a pretty decent mech. Will it be good as the laserboat Stormcrow? Maybe not, but it will serve you well in casual play.

[You did mention snipers. Well, there is the Grid Iron. It's a Hunchback hero mech that costs real money and gives you a c-bill bonus when you play it. It has quirks for the Gauss rifle, a weapon that is very vulnerable to being destroyed and will take half your mech with it as it is prone to explode when hit with a critical. It comes with an XL stock, which makes it pretty much a death sentence if the enemies can get to either shoulder. You can replace it with an STD engine of course, but just an idea if you want to live on the wild side.]

#23 Napoleon_Blownapart

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 01:04 AM

just a few thoughts, lasers are great for very new pilots they hit instantly and as you learn to aim even just swiping the target will do damage.ballistics and short range missiles have a travel time and you need to lead your shots to intercept where your target will be.long range missle can be tough as indirect fire because you are counting on teammates to keep their target lock, and at the very early stage you dont have the gxp or cbills to buy a target decay module which holds your lock a few seconds longer after you lose sight of an enemy or a teammate loses lock.i have seen many new players playing lrm boats and hit nothing because they just can't hold the lock long enough.

and, welcome to MWO

#24 radiv

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 01:17 AM

Watch this https://www.youtube....5HMHAfkW7i3ggw2
I would recommend Stormcrow, it can do many things as Kanajashi shows

#25 DavidStarr

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 05:58 AM

Thanks a lot for taking the time to write those very detailed responses. I'll give the suggested HB-4P loadout a try, and I will watch some videos from the suggested channel. Already watched the one on the missile Hunchback gameplay.

I have to say I'm enjoying the Catapult-1A trial heavy mech for now. LRM mechanic is annoying to play against and kinda dumb, but it's very forgiving to a newbie.

Also, with every reply I read here I realize that I need to find a good comprehensive beginner's guide on MWO. There are just too many basic things I don't know. Can you suggest me that single guide that will get me started fast?

Edited by DavidStarr, 01 February 2016 - 06:09 AM.


#26 habu86

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 06:25 AM

One of the best intro guides out there:

https://docs.google....d.g263f6502b_00

Also make sure to check out metamechs.com for one of the best repositories for mech builds. Its perspective may seem heavily geared towards comp play at times, but its discussions of how and why things work or do not work will go a long way towards helping you understand and learn game mechanics.

raksarmory.blogspot.co.uk is another good resource. Not quite as focused and structured as metamechs, but has some very good articles that discuss gameplay and builds, so there is a lot to learn from it.

Lastly, try to run a search for 'mech hitbox localization and do your best to memorize as much of it as you can, it will be invaluable in teaching you where to aim in order to quickly destroy or degrade an opponent.

Edited by habu86, 01 February 2016 - 07:26 AM.


#27 JC Daxion

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 08:32 AM

View PostDavidStarr, on 31 January 2016 - 05:19 AM, said:

Hi. I've just started playing, maybe have 10 battles on record. I'm struggling a lot with doing damage and being useful, and I think I need to start with a long-range sniper or missile mech. Can you recommend any?




DONT.... learning to play as a sniper is not a good idea. You need to be a great player to make a sniper work well. It also teaches very bad habits, very similar to learning with LRM's. On contrary to popular belief LRM's are hard to play well, and so easy to play them wrong, leading to lots of hate.

Learn the game on a meduim or heavy, the Centurion, hunchback, or Shadow hawks are a great place to start

Edited by JC Daxion, 01 February 2016 - 10:31 AM.


#28 Koniving

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 09:58 AM

View PostDavidStarr, on 31 January 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

I actually bought the Hunchback on advice of some YT video. Regret it already.


This may help you change your mind.

These videos are recorded before quirks (meaning the 'Mechs are better, tankier and more dangerous now)... but in turn other mechs have also been given similar things.
4P.
4G.

;)

Try the following:
Right torso front armor 40, rear armor 8. (I personally use 46/2 if you notice it in the video).
My left torso rear armor is almost 20. o.O; But you'll see why when I have the emergency and need to turn around quick in the 4P video against the Jagermech's onslaught.

You will also notice a huge difference in my arm and torso mounted weapons on the 4P. You won't notice it on the 4G 'cause I don't treat them separately. You may also notice I have two crosshairs. The + and the o. See if you can figure out what the difference is.

#29 JC Daxion

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 10:28 AM

Way back when Koniving told me to learn the game on a HBK. I played my first 100 or so matches in a trial dragon with a gauss and a pair of LL's, while a great fun mech, i always tried to brawl with it.. Not the best brawler for sure, and my record proves that. But when i asked what i should play next, he recommended the HBK as the mech has all play styles, weapons, and will teach you to twist.

To this day i think the HBK is the best starter mech.. a close second i would say the Shadow hawk because of JJ's but they can lead to not learning the maps and the ramps and such. And now with quirks, the 4SP is one of the toughest mechs around. It can tank like a heavy, and does great damage too, to this day it is one of my favorite mechs and i owe it all to Kon :)

so thanks man!

#30 Koniving

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 10:40 AM

You're welcome, JC.
Trial Dragon.

Just because. Posted Image

#31 JC Daxion

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 10:46 AM

You rock man.. You are one of the most helpful warriors around. but watch out.. Rouge Jedi is creeping up on ya though. 15k posts, and all of them helpful, not to mention you always seem happy in your help which is rare these days on the interwebs.. You taught me more about the game than anyone.. though i only got to fight you one time.. it was a pleasure. You cored me right before you died to LRM's that i locked in a brawl. One of my favorite moments to this date.

Edited by JC Daxion, 01 February 2016 - 10:47 AM.


#32 segeri9

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 05:18 PM

Well since you're trying out the Cat now, one quick tip in case you missed it.

When firing missiles using the Cat, consider opening or closing your missile bay doors with the (default) "/" key. With them open, you fire them on click, otherwise there's a slight delay between shots since the doors have to open first. With them closed, however, they have a minor damage reduction bonus. If you've got good eyes, you can find a small red/green toggle light in the frame of your windshield indicating whether or not the bays are open.

#33 Koniving

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 05:36 PM

A Catapult A1. A lot of LRMs. And missile doors.


Just because I've got a video for almost anything. Posted Image

Side note: I wouldn't recommend the build I'm using. It's deliberate hard mode. Less armor than a stock Locust. Only 10 tons of ammunition.

Edited by Koniving, 01 February 2016 - 05:44 PM.


#34 TheSilken

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 05:42 PM

Best way to get better is to fight better opponents than you and pay attention to what they say/do. Private Lobbies work well with this.

#35 Panzermagistratus

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 05:51 PM

Play the trial king crab or the Raven 3L. The king crab offers devastating firepower in the right hands at little cost of heat. The 3L has ecm, is the fastest sniper light in the game, and if you really try with those two little ER lasers, it become really easy to core out assault mechs. You do have to develop a method to not being hit, while still hitting hard. It's a delicate balance.

#36 The Mecha Streisand

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Posted 01 February 2016 - 05:58 PM

View Postdelaes8F, on 01 February 2016 - 05:51 PM, said:

Play the trial king crab or the Raven 3L. The king crab offers devastating firepower in the right hands at little cost of heat. The 3L has ecm, is the fastest sniper light in the game, and if you really try with those two little ER lasers, it become really easy to core out assault mechs. You do have to develop a method to not being hit, while still hitting hard. It's a delicate balance.


My RVN-3L has a 2.08-ish KDR in my Tier 5 exploits, and I SUCK at this game.

In Tier 3, it takes considerably more skill. I've SEEN things, mind you, that would freakin BLOW YOUR MIND, from good Raven pilots.

Someone else made a greap point about sniping in the RVN-3L (or any fast light, for that matter). Sniping requires you to stand still or close to it while firing. That's kind of a waste of that speed. So cut down the engine, add NARC or something, and STILL outrun Shadow Cats. ;-)

#37 DavidStarr

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 05:35 AM

What's your opinion on the 3 x Pulse Laser Hunchback-4P from the guide linked above? I like its simplicity.

Edited by DavidStarr, 02 February 2016 - 05:45 AM.


#38 Koniving

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 06:34 AM

View PostDavidStarr, on 02 February 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

What's your opinion on the 3 x Pulse Laser Hunchback-4P from the guide linked above? I like its simplicity.

Note: "Holding time" as used below means "Time required to hold the crosshairs on a specific part of the target to do full damage." Holding time by default for an IS Large Pulse Laser is 0.6 seconds. For an HBK-4P after quirks: 0.51 seconds holding time (about half a second or as long as I have to hold the small pulse lasers shown below since these were recorded before quirks.)

Basically picture this AC/20 HBK 4G.


Now, instead of doing 20 damage per shot, picture 31.2 damage per shot, with a bit more heat. Bit more range. Bit more holding time (but the MGs + SPLs make up the difference in 'holding time' and damage).

So. Basically picture that with more range and a lot more speed ....and easier to kill due to the ultra expensive "eXtraLight" engine. Only downfall there.

Like this speed... And this easy to kill.



Trade out the XL engine for the stock standard 200 engine and yes it might be slow like that HBK I have, but you'll be a LOT harder to kill.

Edited by Koniving, 02 February 2016 - 06:41 AM.


#39 Lugh

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 06:56 AM

View PostDavidStarr, on 31 January 2016 - 08:14 AM, said:

I actually bought the Hunchback on advice of some YT video. Regret it already.


Fair enough, I'll take your advice. I don't know the first thing about fitting mechs and playing them right anyway. I did like shooting missiles that don't require a line of sight, though.
I think heavies and assaults suit me the most so far. Should probably focus on heavies and let someone better skilled handle the assault mechs for now, shouldn't I?

Don't regret it, adjust your playstyle. You pack a wallop, and you can take very little in return. Place yourself in the hip pocket of an assault or two and shoot what they shoot.

Profit. Provided the Assault isn't an Idiot Simpleton.

#40 DavidStarr

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Posted 02 February 2016 - 06:56 AM

Thanks for resolving the cognitive dissonance I've been having regarding the "XL" abbreviation :) I though it means extra large, but clearly that's not what it is based on the effects observable in the mechlab. And while we're at it, could you please explain how engine type affects survivability? I don't see any such effects in the Smurfy's configurator or in the mechlab. The armor amount doesn't depend on the engine.

It seems that I can put one more heatsink on after switching the engine: http://mwo.smurfy-ne...bca15419ddda280
One more thing I don't get is why didn't they remove all armor from the empty right arm.





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